Who Promotes Propaganda?

[Darrell C]

I'm asking you for a couple examples of apostles going out "into the world and instructing doctrine."

The entire New Testament is filled with examples, lol.

Here is another:


Acts 8:20-25

King James Version (KJV)

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Sure.

Acts 2
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I don't see any doctrine in there. I do see the gospel in verses 19-40.

Well, if you can understand what doctrine is a reference to and still say that with a straight face, lol, there is nothing I can do for you.

If you would like more examples let me know.
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"More examples?" How about one example.

If you don't see doctrine in the Gospel, my friend, there is nothing I can do to make you see it.

So now I will ask you a question: how is one brought to the point where they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, ITL?
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No, I'm not going to play your game of moving the goalposts of the argument. Let's not change the subject.

Understanding that the Gospel is a specific Doctrine made up of many Doctrinal issues is not exactly moving the goalposts, ITL.

The answer to the question is by a conveyance of Scriptural Doctrine.

Please give an example of the apostles going out and teaching doctrine to support your idea of the Great Commission.

How about this one, a favorite of many:


Acts 16:30-32

King James Version (KJV)

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.


God bless.

 

[InTheLight]

The entire New Testament is filled with examples, lol.

Here is another:


Acts 8:20-25

King James Version (KJV)

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Yes, the gift of the Holy Spirit cannot be purchased with money. Spoken to one man, the sorcerer, and not taught to all nations.

25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Hey, thanks for including that verse where the apostles and disciples are out preaching the gospel.

If you don't see doctrine in the Gospel, my friend, there is nothing I can do to make you see it.

Sigh. Again, the preaching of the gospel is not the question, the question put to you is to show doctrines OTHER than the gospel that the apostles went out into the world and preached.

Understanding that the Gospel is a specific Doctrine made up of many Doctrinal issues is not exactly moving the goalposts, ITL.

That's hilarious. Once again (read it slowly, so you get it): BESIDES the gospel, what other doctrines did the apostles and disciples go out into all the world and teach the nations?

 

[Darrell C]

ITL, I don't know if you mean to do it or not, but I enjoy the humor, lol.

Darrell C said: ↑
The entire New Testament is filled with examples, lol.

Here is another:


Acts 8:20-25

King James Version (KJV)

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Click to expand...
Yes, the gift of the Holy Spirit cannot be purchased with money. Spoken to one man, the sorcerer, and not taught to all nations.


25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for including that verse where the apostles and disciples are out preaching the gospel.

Peter is not preaching the Gospel here, ITL, he is correcting this fellow in regards to how salvation is conveyed, specifically the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.

The Gospel is not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and...how the Holy Ghost is not bought with money, lol.

If you don't see doctrine in the Gospel, my friend, there is nothing I can do to make you see it.
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Sigh. Again, the preaching of the gospel is not the question, the question put to you is to show doctrines OTHER than the gospel

Actually, if you want to get technical, my friend, the question is how the thread has turned into a parody.



You then moved the goalpost to this rabbit trail, and despite being fully made aware of you error you still persist. Is it really that important to save face?

But as to this particular rabbit trail, here it is again:

I was not aware that the Great Commission was about going around and correcting Christian's perceived doctrinal errors. Silly me, all this time I thought it was about reaching the lost for Christ.

Thanks for the heads up!

You limit the Great Commission to people being saved. when it is clear in Christ's command that everything He taught was to be instructed.

Find three of your forum buddies to agree with you ITL.

And just to show this is not a propaganda only thread, to encourage your buddies to join in...

...I dare ya.

I double-dog dare ya.

Maybe this would be a good place for one of those "Grow up" indicators, no?

Sigh. Again, the preaching of the gospel is not the question, the question put to you is to show doctrines OTHER than the gospel that the apostles went out into the world and preached.

First... this rabbit trail is about whether or not...

...the Great Commission was about going around and correcting Christian's perceived doctrinal errors.

...and secondly, whether or not I can actually show you that in Scripture.

Here is another example:


Acts 15

King James Version (KJV)

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.


While we would not exclude the Gospel truth from this matter, this matter was not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, it was whether or not Christians have to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Your welcome in advance.

Understanding that the Gospel is a specific Doctrine made up of many Doctrinal issues is not exactly moving the goalposts, ITL.
Click to expand...

That's hilarious.

Glad I could bring a little humor into your life as well, lol.

So you are saying that the Great Commission means that Christians are to only go out and preach the Gospel, and there is no need for discipling efforts after that, we are not commanded to teach them all things whatsoever Christ taught?

That's what you are saying here.

There will be certain Pastors sighing with you, amigo, sighing in relief that is.

Once again (read it slowly, so you get it): BESIDES the gospel, what other doctrines did the apostles and disciples go out into all the world and teach the nations?

Tsk, Tsk, ITL, you should know by now that I don't easily forget the context of a discussion, lol:

I was not aware that the Great Commission was about going around and correcting Christian's perceived doctrinal errors. Silly me, all this time I thought it was about reaching the lost for Christ.

Thanks for the heads up!

Now you have moved the goalposts:

BESIDES the gospel, what other doctrines did the apostles and disciples go out into all the world and teach the nations?

Silly wabbit...tricks are for kids.

The simple truth acknowledged by pretty much every other Christian in the world, except for those we might consider babes due to their ignorance of Scripture beyond the immediacy of salvation, is that discipleship begins at salvation.

While the babe has come under conviction of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is evident that Christians are commanded to be in obedience to every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, not just a matter of getting some fire insurance. And genuine profession is evidenced by growth.

The writer of Hebrews makes it clear...


Hebrews 5:9-14

King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

And just as a suggestion, perhaps you could start a thread on this subject, and show everyone just how dumb I am, lol.

The topic of this thread happens to be Propaganda with side issues of ignorance, unjust accusation, and hypocrisy.




God bless.

 

[InTheLight]

Peter is not preaching the Gospel here, ITL, he is correcting this fellow in regards to how salvation is conveyed, specifically the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.

I never said he was. I said he was teaching one person, the sorcerer that the Holy Spirit can't be bought with money.

Then I commented on your inclusion of verse 25 which is about a bunch of believers spreading the gospel.

The Gospel is not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and...how the Holy Ghost is not bought with money, lol.

This is why there are verse numbers in the Bible. Verses 20-24 are about the Holy Spirit not being bought; verse 25 is about people witnessing.

You limit the Great Commission to people being saved. when it is clear in Christ's command that everything He taught was to be instructed.

Making believers out of the "whole world" is the primary focus of the Great Commission, yes. I stand by that. You still haven't answered my question about the particular commandments of Christ that the apostles went out and taught other people. Do you have that list handy?

...and secondly, whether or not I can actually show you that in Scripture.

Here is another example:


Acts 15

King James Version (KJV)

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.


While we would not exclude the Gospel truth from this matter, this matter was not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, it was whether or not Christians have to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Your welcome in advance.

You have shown nothing. You have shown that the disciples held a meeting among themselves at the church of Jerusalem to discuss this matter. They didn't go out and broadcast this doctrinal point to "the whole world".

4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

So you are saying that the Great Commission means that Christians are to only go out and preach the Gospel, and there is no need for discipling efforts after that, we are not commanded to teach them all things whatsoever Christ taught?

That's what you are saying here.

My, you do like to change the conditions of the argument, don't you?

I said the apostles and disciples were sent out into the whole world to preach the gospel, yes. I never said that Christians do not need to perform discipling efforts. I will say that the primary purpose of the Great Commission is not to go out and preach doctrine.

Tsk, Tsk, ITL, you should know by now that I don't easily forget the context of a discussion, lol

The writer of Hebrews makes it clear...


Hebrews 5:9-14

King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


God bless.

Hey, that's a great quote. Do you remember one of the conditions of argument that I had set down earlier? Ummm...oh yeah, here it is:

So, other than Paul (who wasn't present at the Great Commission and wasn't sent to ALL nations, only to the Gentiles) what other apostle is known for instructing Christians in doctrine?

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
Peter is not preaching the Gospel here, ITL, he is correcting this fellow in regards to how salvation is conveyed, specifically the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.

I never said he was. I said he was teaching one person, the sorcerer that the Holy Spirit can't be bought with money.

Then I commented on your inclusion of verse 25 which is about a bunch of believers spreading the gospel.

But you are ignoring that Peter is not preaching the Gospel when he rebukes Simon.

I gave what you asked for, and you are still implacable, lol.

The Gospel is not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and...how the Holy Ghost is not bought with money, lol.

This is why there are verse numbers in the Bible. Verses 20-24 are about the Holy Spirit not being bought; verse 25 is about people witnessing.

Doesn't change the fact that this meets your criteria, lol:

So, other than Paul (who wasn't present at the Great Commission and wasn't sent to ALL nations, only to the Gentiles) what other apostle is known for instructing Christians in doctrine?

Oh, sorry, I meant your original criteria:

InTheLight said: ↑
I was not aware that the Great Commission was about going around and correcting Christian's perceived doctrinal errors. Silly me, all this time I thought it was about reaching the lost for Christ.

Thanks for the heads up!


"All you thought it was about was preaching the Gospel."

Have you found three friends to agree with you yet?

And if you want to banter about it having to be Christians...do you mean to say that all you thought the Great Commission was about was going around preaching the Gospel to saved folk? lol

You limit the Great Commission to people being saved. when it is clear in Christ's command that everything He taught was to be instructed.

Making believers out of the "whole world" is the primary focus of the Great Commission, yes. I stand by that. You still haven't answered my question about the particular commandments of Christ that the apostles went out and taught other people. Do you have that list handy?

You haven't answered my questions, ITL...all of your questions have been addressed. We are now at the point where your demands will make it necessary to repeat what has already been said.

Nevertheless, here is the response you were given:

We look at what they actually taught. Acts is a good place to find examples. The primary teaching consists of exactly what the Great Commission sums up:


Matthew 28:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


So now I will ask you a question: how is one brought to the point where they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, ITL?

What teachings are primary.

What teachings follow?

Why would we restrict any New Testament Teacher or their Teachings from our lives?

This would make a great thread, by the way.


God bless.

Do we have to have a list to recognize that Christ commissions the disciples to teach all that He taught?

I would head that list up with the teaching concerning the Comforter, myself.

So how about addressing that particular doctrine Christ taught the disciples which would be included in the teaching the disciples, all disciples, would go on to reiterate?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

...and secondly, whether or not I can actually show you that in Scripture.

Here is another example:


Acts 15

King James Version (KJV)

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.


While we would not exclude the Gospel truth from this matter, this matter was not about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, it was whether or not Christians have to be circumcised in order to be saved.

Your welcome in advance.

You have shown nothing. You have shown that the disciples held a meeting among themselves at the church of Jerusalem to discuss this matter. They didn't go out and broadcast this doctrinal point to "the whole world".

4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

It's still being preached to the world, isn't it?

We don't have a Scripture that states the disciples bathed, but that's a pretty safe assumption, isn't it?

And we see here...


Galatians 2:9-13

King James Version (KJV)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


...disciples being rebuked for not teaching sound doctrine and practice, right?

They denied the equality of salvation to the Gentiles, and Paul reminds them that this is contrary to the Great Commission.

When the Gospel is preached and taught all doctrine has to conform to that Gospel, and the doctrine which corrupts it is to be rebuked.

That you can't see your question has been answered multiple times is a little disturbing.

So you are saying that the Great Commission means that Christians are to only go out and preach the Gospel, and there is no need for discipling efforts after that, we are not commanded to teach them all things whatsoever Christ taught?

That's what you are saying here.

My, you do like to change the conditions of the argument, don't you?

I said the apostles and disciples were sent out into the whole world to preach the gospel, yes. I never said that Christians do not need to perform discipling efforts. I will say that the primary purpose of the Great Commission is not to go out and preach doctrine.

lol

Okay, ITL.

I was not aware that the Great Commission was about going around and correcting Christian's perceived doctrinal errors. Silly me, all this time I thought it was about reaching the lost for Christ.

Thanks for the heads up!

Again, you are welcome.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Tsk, Tsk, ITL, you should know by now that I don't easily forget the context of a discussion, lol

Couldn't have put it any better myself.

Thanks!

The writer of Hebrews makes it clear...


Hebrews 5:9-14

King James Version (KJV)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


God bless.

Hey, that's a great quote. Do you remember one of the conditions of argument that I had set down earlier? Ummm...oh yeah, here it is:

InTheLight said:
So, other than Paul (who wasn't present at the Great Commission and wasn't sent to ALL nations, only to the Gentiles) what other apostle is known for instructing Christians in doctrine?

Great, but why exclude Paul? Who is quite possibly the writer of Hebrews. Was he not an Apostle who wrote the better part of the epistles? Was he not the most written of the writers?

And Paul was sent to all nations, lol. That's kind of the point behind...


Romans 11:12-14

King James Version (KJV)

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.


Both Jew and Gentile are covered here, ITL.

And one more example of an Apostle known for instructing Christians in Doctrine:


James 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.


While this is considered to be the brother of Jesus, rather than the Apostle James, he is still a sent one, rather than just a learner.

He is carrying out he Great Commission, instructing his brethren of sound Doctrine and Practice.

You might take note of this instruction in doctrine, or rather, the teaching of how one gains sound doctrine and practice.

Ask God.

Pretty simple and straightforward teaching to Christians. And he will go on to give examples of what is not Christian, and reasons why someone would question the integrity of their own profession of faith in Christ. If people say, and do not do, their works are only hollow boast, then it might be evidence that one is falsely professing.

And that is not the Gospel, but very much the teaching Christ presented in the parable of the Sower. Tares and wheat. Empty words and empty hearts as contrasted with genuine faith in Christ which evidences the good works we are created in Christ Jesus to.


God bless.

 

[InTheLight]

You have answered nothing. You have attempted to change the argument over and over again. You don't address my points. Then you turn around and accuse me of being non-responsive.

For these reasons I won't be discussing things with you anymore. Also, you are so long-winded it's impossible to easily respond to your tomes. Especially on a phone but also on a PC.

Good night and God bless.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

 

[Darrell C]

You have answered nothing. You have attempted to change the argument over and over again. You don't address my points. Then you turn around and accuse me of being non-responsive.

For these reasons I won't be discussing things with you anymore. Also, you are so long-winded it's impossible to easily respond to your tomes. Especially on a phone but also on a PC.

Good night and God bless.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

Have a great night, ITL.

God bless.

 

[righteousdude2]

Any debate with the poncho is like debating a dead horse. You will beat it forever and it will just lay there and stink up the place, in his care, the board.

The words I used in no way should be meant to mean anything else, other than the fact that he is difficult to debate with because he has some stand-fast, deal breaker ideas and thoughts! I still love him and would love to meet him in person and discuss his views, one on one!