Who quoted the comma?

[Greektim]

According to Jordan K., many ancient fathers quoted the comma as it appears in the KJV. I want to take him to task and argue that these are not quotations. But the other thread got derailed. So, Jordan, can you demonstrate these quotations? Or do they just appear as Trinitarian formula veiled in NT verbage just like a NT writer steeped in the OT would unconsciously use OT language?

 

[Greektim]

According to Jordan K., many ancient fathers quoted the comma as it appears in the KJV. I want to take him to task and argue that these are not quotations. But the other thread got derailed. So, Jordan, can you demonstrate these quotations? Or do they just appear as Trinitarian formula veiled in NT verbage just like a NT writer steeped in the OT would unconsciously use OT language?

Is Jordan's silence an answer here? Or has he just failed to see this thread and question?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Is Jordan's silence an answer here? Or has he just failed to see this thread and question?

I am sorry but I just do not have the time to search through Church Father's quotations.

Perhaps my sources have lied or been mistaken.

 

[Greektim]

I am sorry but I just do not have the time to search through Church Father's quotations.

Perhaps my sources have lied or been mistaken.

Just look at the ones you put on the other thread. Not one single quotation of the text in question.

 

[jonathan.borland]

The Comma was popular in the Latin mss especially of North Africa and Spain, and this is corroborated by Latin church writers from those areas who cite it. But there is no credible evidence/argument that the passage ever existed in the earliest copies of the Greek New Testament, which is the primary concern. Many doctrinal accretions entered the Latin mss even of 1 John, and the Comma has every appearance of being one of them.

 

[Winman]

Lots of information found here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum#Early_Church_Writer_evidences

 

[HankD]

There are two requirements for a legitimate witness of the Comma from the ECF.

First, no scripture necessarily has to be word for word perfect, just recognizable and called scripture (or "the word") or some indication like "according to Paul", etc...

When it comes to the Comma BOTH vs 7 and 8 must be quoted and called "scripture" (or something as above) separately.
Anyway, It is impossible to quote it word for word in Latin as Latin has no definite article.

Although I have seen the word for word Latin quotation (or old itala) called 1 John 5:7 without the presence of vs 8.

Some (or maybe just one) old itala mss reverse 7 and 8.

It's too weary a process to go scanning through over 20,000 pages of ECF even electronically.

I'm not going to do it again, I believe I have quite a collection in the archives from a few years ago.

HankD

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

In Lynn Truss' Eats, Shoots, and Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation, she states that the comma was the invention of Aristophanes of Byzantium, and was used in the ancient Greek. I've not seen any examples of the punctuation in Koine Greek, but it is entirely possible that some Greek manuscripts contain punctuation.

As an aside, if anyone wants to know Truss' panda joke that illustrates the necessity of punctuation, let me know.

 

[Rippon]

In Lynn Truss' Eats, Shoots, and Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation, she states that the comma was the invention of Aristophanes of Byzantium, and was used in the ancient Greek. I've not seen any examples of the punctuation in Koine Greek, but it is entirely possible that some Greek manuscripts contain punctuation.

As an aside, if anyone wants to know Truss' panda joke that illustrates the necessity of punctuation, let me know.

Off-topic for sure!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

:laugh: I know. People taking this thing way too seriously, both on this thread, and the one that got derailed and abandoned.

 

[HankD]

Yes, when it comes to the word of God concerning additions and/or omissions things can get out of hand.

HankD