Who Said This (2)

[John of Japan]

Read the Baptist (used to be Criswell) Study Bible and look at Romans 8 & 1 John 2:2. This is not a 'calvinistic' commentary.

To claim that Criswell was a calvinist is as ludicrous as claiming J. Frank (Norris) was. They were about as opposite as they get.

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Well, I wondered about this. I've never thought from anything that Criswell said or did that he was a Calvinist. :flower: (Not a tulip, and only has four petals.:tongue3: )

 

[El_Guero]

So are 4 petals a clover?

 

[Revmitchell]

None should have.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 ¶ Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

EXACTLY!:thumbs:

People ned to get over Calvin and Arminian. Isnt it possible to state your doctrinal position without saying you are a Calvinist or an Arminian? How about being in Christ and leaving it that way.

 

[John of Japan]

So are 4 petals a clover?

Dunno. Looks like a daisy to me!

 

[John of Japan]

EXACTLY!:thumbs:

People ned to get over Calvin and Arminian. Isnt it possible to state your doctrinal position without saying you are a Calvinist or an Arminian? How about being in Christ and leaving it that way.

It certainly is possible. I do it all the time, no matter that some BB types think for some reason you have to be one or another--or it's not fair, I guess. (ALERT TO CALVINISTS: THIS WAS A JOKE! :smilewinkgrin: ) And you are never allowed to use the term Biblicist, according to some of them!

As one of my mentors used to say about the issue, "I'm willing to let God have some secrets." :thumbs:

 

[whatever]

. . . Isnt it possible to state your doctrinal position without saying you are a Calvinist or an Arminian? How about being in Christ and leaving it that way.

It's possible but it takes a lot longer. Saying that you are in Christ, for a Christian, is a lot like telling someone that you are a human kind of person. It really doesn't tell them anything that they didn't already know, and it doesn't address the question of your doctrinal position at all. So why is that a good answer?

 

[J.D.]

J.D.

Historically, some, Baptists in America, were 'calvinists'. Some Baptists were 'calvinistic'. And most Baptists were closer to reformed theology than to armenian theology. Baptists separated from the reformed theology . . . not to reformed theology. Yes, reformed theology has much in common with Baptist distinctives - we both use the Bible.

However, claiming someone was a calvinist because their words were taken out of context is dangerous.

But, until the 'resurgence' I only heard one person ever teach calvinism in an SBC church. I still have not heard one IFB (down here most come from IBBF and WBF - if I remember my letters) claim anything close to calvinism.

Read the Baptist (used to be Criswell) Study Bible and look at Romans 8 & 1 John 2:2. This is not a 'calvinistic' commentary.

To claim that Criswell was a calvinist is as ludicrous as claiming J. Frank (Norris) was. They were about as opposite as they get.

Who am I taking out of context, Norris or Criswell? Did you not READ the post on Criswell and the post on ABC's Statement Of Faith? Just click on the link to Criswell's sermon. READ IT. Then tell me I took his statements out of context.

Go to the ABC web site. READ the statement of faith. Then tell me if I took anything out of context. Oh, it might not be the Westminster Confession, but I gaurantee you there's not a synergist in the world that believes that regeneration comes before faith. If anyone claims such a thing, they are lying to themselves. Pre-faith regeneration is a core tenent of calvinism.

 

[John of Japan]

Go to the ABC web site. READ the statement of faith. Then tell me if I took anything out of context. Oh, it might not be the Westminster Confession, but I gaurantee you there's not a synergist in the world that believes that regeneration comes before faith. If anyone claims such a thing, they are lying to themselves. Pre-faith regeneration is a core tenent of calvinism.

I just did re-read it. You're thinking wishfully, J. D. The ABC statement does not say what you are saying it does.

 

[El_Guero]

The commentary on Romans 8:30 shows that God's forknowledge comes before His predestination of the elect. This is a strong current within historic Baptist distinctives.

Another strong current of Baptist theology. John 2:2 the commentary says: "the universal extent of the atonement of Christ is nowhere clearer than here".

So from your background you read into a statement what I would not read into it.

 

[El_Guero]

Many if not most Baptists that are accredited with being 'calvinists' really are closer to what is described as new light calvinism . . .

 

[El_Guero]

Who said this?

There are words that apply to the God Jehovah in heaven. Almightiness., sovereignty, the whole destiny of the world in his mighty hands. Foreknowledge. That’s a God in heaven kind of a word. It doesn’t apply to us.

Haven’t you heard me say here many times: I can tell you how to be a billionaire in no time at all. I can tell you how to be a billionaire. If you can know the future for two minutes.

You see, God knows it for the eons and ages yet to come. He prophesies in his book things that are coming thousands of years hence. The eons and the ages and the eternity is just present before him.

But we? If you have foreknowledge, two minutes, I’ll tell you how to be a billionaire. Just buy a stock on the New York Stock Exchange just before it goes up and sell it just before it goes down. You’ll be a billionaire in no time. Just two minutes.

You see, there are words that apply to the great mightiness of God. And there are words that apply to us. You can’t mix the two. When you are talking about God, then you talk about sovereignty. And you talk about purpose. And you talk about God’s will through the ages. And you talk about foreknowledge. And election. And predestination.

But when you talk about us, we know nothing of those things. There is no almightiness in us. There is no foreknowledge about us. That’s God. When you talk about us, then you talk about free moral agency and spiritual responsibility and freedom of choice.

Now, when we think about those two, two us they are diametrically contradictory. How can a man be free and at the same time God be sovereign?

How can God carry through his elective purpose and at the same time, I am perfectly able to make any choice that I like? How can that be?

Well, our problem lies in our astigmatism. Our spirit and moral near sightedness. We can see one thing at a time. But apparently we’re incapable of seeing two. We can see the sovereignty of God, the Almightiness of God. And we can see the free moral agency of a man, but because of our astigmatism, we can’t see both at the same time. To us, they are contradictory.

http://www.wacriswell.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/Search.Transcripts/sermon/213.cfm

 

[John of Japan]

Who am I taking out of context, Norris or Criswell?

Certainly not Norris--you havent' even quoted him! :smilewinkgrin:

I've been reading my Inside History, with several sermons of Norris in it. No way was that man a Calvinist! He preached the Gospel and did door to door soul winning as if Christ died for every person on earth, and it was his responsibility to win them to Christ.

 

[Rippon]

There seem to be some false distinctions in your thinking JOJ . I am sure you don't believe that only non-Calvinists are preaching the Gospel . The GC is the commission pressed upon all Christians , so it is our responsiblity to declare the Word to all .

As for the belief that He died for every person on earth -- He did not die for , in the stead and place of those who He did not elect before the foundation of the world . Those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life only are His own . But these matters are not new to you , I am sure .

 

[npetreley]

If God would have painted a yellow stripe on the backs of the elect I would go around lifting shirts. But since He didn't I must preach `whosoever will' and when `whosoever' believes I know he is one of the elect.
- C.H. Spurgeon

01234567890

 

[John of Japan]

There seem to be some false distinctions in your thinking JOJ . I am sure you don't believe that only non-Calvinists are preaching the Gospel . The GC is the commission pressed upon all Christians , so it is our responsiblity to declare the Word to all .

You misread my post. I did not say that Calvinists do not preach the Gospel. Look again at my wording.

.... But these matters are not new to you , I am sure .

Very very old to me.

 

[Brother Bob]

J. D.
said it!

He did, He did!

 

[El_Guero]

What did he say this time?

J. D.
said it!

He did, He did!