Who should be the NBA season MVP?

That is true, they did have some great battles. The only positive thing I can say about the Pistons is that one of their greatest players of all time was an IU player

 

Scott, I just can't believe you could not be objective

I notice you don't include the Celtics in your list, are you a Celtic fan?

I am not sure how Kareem would have done against the centers today. But it sure would be fun to find out. I do not know if there is anyone that can handle Shaq.

 

Scott, I just can't believe you could not be objective

I notice you don't include the Celtics in your list, are you a Celtic fan? </font>[/QUOTE] I was. There was an appeal to me as a tall, not naturally gifted athlete to guys who didn't fit the mold like Bird, Parrish, D Johnson, and McHale.

I am not sure how Kareem would have done against the centers today. But it sure would be fun to find out. I do not know if there is anyone that can handle Shaq. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess it would depend on the style of play and officiating. Called straight up... Kareem probably would have fouled Shaq out in about 4 minutes. Called by modern standards, Kareem wouldn't have been able to handle him at all.

 

But remember...Kareem could score 10ft. from the basket with the sky hook...Kareem's sky hook was the most undefendable offensive weapon I've seen in basketball. Shaq could not stop it. OTOH, neither could Kareem stop Shaq from backing him down. It would be a points-fest until either
(1)Kareem was worn down by Shaq's bumping; or
(2) Kareem fouled Shaq out.

Yep, depends on officiating.

My dream matchup? A 4-team playoff: the '86-87 Lakers versus the '82-83 76ers; and the '85-86 Celtics versus the '95-96 Bulls.

I have no idea who would win that contest. The Bulls had the best record, and player, but the other three teams had better competition. The 76er team was "lightning in a bottle," and had no weaknesses in their starting five. The Lakers had the most offensive punch. The Celtics probably played the smartest. It would be a blast to watch.

Although the '89-91 Pistons were great, I think they were just a tiny bit underneath these other three teams.

Let's face it, fellers...we were spoiled from 1980 until 5-6 years ago. What a run of great basketball, teams, and rivalries.

 

That would be an awesome thing.

 

Hey I forgot why did the Pistons walk off the floor without shaking hands. I remember not only some very dirty playing and (Phil, who really yet has to prove himself a good coach) the coach was during alot of crying to the press.
I also lost respect for Larry Bird when he sucker punch Bill Lambeer. Came up from behind him, pulled his head back and punched him in the face. I mean everyone knew lambeer was a coward also then Larry proves he was a bigger one. Still one of the greatest player though. when Rodmen said if Bird was black he would just be another player. To which Bird replied, thats okay I'll just continue to pound him on the court and did just about every game they met. I love that. Watched everytime they played after that remark. Bird did his talking on the floor.

 

No doubts here ... the play in today's game is a bit of a drop off from the glory days of Bird, Jordan & Johnson.

 

Lambeer was a jerk and deserved much worse for his dirty play.

I thought that was Isaiah Thomas?

 

Yep, it was I. Thomas who made the "if Bird was black" quip.

 

I wonder why this blatant racism wasn't punished?

 

Sorry Scott gotta disagree with you and others again. I found watching those games in person that there was far more dirty play against the Pistons then comeing from them. Yes Lambeer was and is still a jerk but he was not a dirty player. He was a coward too, just like bird. A sissy. Run up behind a guy and hit him then run. That is EXACTLY what he did!
Piston played in your face defense. You couldn't get away from them. Much like todays when they really buckle down and it makes the opponent very very angry.
Your right it was Thomas, but Thomas was a great player. I am sure I could find some stupid remarks made in the heat of battle by Bird. Bird had nothing on Thomas. He was talented and smart as a player. Bird definately lack one of those and I will clue you in it wasn't the latter.

Say what you want the Bad Boys played the best defense ever. Today there is not team that could compare. I watched'em and I know.


Scott sidenote: I saw on tv bout two weeks ago that the 2500 jobs lost at a GM job actually added up to another 25000 jobs after the effect on venders and small bus. in the area.

 

I really didn't intend them as a whole... but have to disagree about Lambeer. I watched him a good bit and besides being the worst whiner in the history of the league, he was dirty.

I liked Bird the player. As a person, he left things to be desired.

Yes and as much as I despised them... they did it very well. Lambeer IMO went beyond aggression though.

I didn't say he wasn't but if a white guy had said anything of that nature about blacks he'd have been ridden out on a rail.

Yes. I think his career was probably cursed and ended early after he said something to the effect that Jesus Christ couldn't have stopped him on a particular night. Shortly thereafter he developed the back problems that eventually put him out of basketball.

Except 8 inches... better scoring ability... better rebounded ability... better shooting... better free throw shooting... a championship... ROY award... 3 league MVP's... 6 All NBA awards... an Olympic Gold Medal... 5 ppg... and if I am not mistaken, more career wins.

Meaning that Bird had to work harder for it... making Thomas' comment even more repugnant.

That's really hard to say... as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a greater distribution of talent now.

Yes. I hope that at some point the boat starts to float again. What do you think of the management cuts?

 

And your Pistons colored glasses wouldn't be affecting what you remember, right?

Because Isaiah couldn't take it that he lost to the Bulls after beating them the previous 2 seasons.

Robert Parish did this, not Bird. I did a bit of research and found this.

Bill Laimbeer fouls Larry Bird, who jumps on him and pounds him like veal.

(continuing)

...It may or may not be the same series (it was), but I saw Robert Parish chop Laimbeer down with three lumberjack shots.

It was in Game 5 of the 87 Eastern Conference Finals and it came about as a result of what happened in Game 3.

...But that doesn't stop Pistons center/bad boy Bill Laimbeer (of whom Kurt Rambis once said, "I think his mother and father like him, but I'd have to verify that") from whipping his arm across Bird's face/throat and slamming the Celtics star to the floor. In the ensuing melee, Bird fires the ball at Laimbeer's head.

Nope, it is not EXACTLY what he did, because he didn't do it. Parish pummeled Laimbeer coming down the court and pretty much stood over him, waiting for Laimbeer to do something about it. I think Chief got thrown out of the game for it, and rightfully so, but Laimbeer didn't come back with any punches of his own.

I'd agree about today's teams. But, I watched the Bad Boys too, and I'd put up the 90s Bulls against the Bad Boys as far as who played tougher D. Those Bulls could flat shutdown their opponents. But, give the Bad Boys their due. They changed the way the pro game is played. The pro game used to be about offenses outscoring each other. It hasn't been that way since about 1987 or 88. Somewhere around the time the Pistons won their championships. Hmmm...

Phil's got 9 rings, but he hasn't proven himself.

How many rings did Jordan, Shaq and Kobe win before Phil? I know your argument, that he wasn't taken a team with lesser talent and won with it. Have you seen this year's Lakers? They're Kobe and a bunch of stiffs and are going to the playoffs. That's a pretty good coaching job by Phil.

Nice try, but let's see the evidence before lowering Bird to Isaiah's level. If you find a similar quote by Bird, I'd like to see it. More often than not, Bird ripped his own team far more often than other teams. Such as the 84 Finals when he called his own team a bunch of ******* after getting blown out in Game 3.

Isaiah's comments were made in the locker room after the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals when the Celtics beat them in Game 7. No hint of sour grapes anywhere, nosiree.

"But I have to agree with Rodman. If he were black, he'd be just another good guy."

Making a statement that Bird lacked talent is utter nonsense. Guys with no talent don't make it in the NBA, much less win 3 championships and 3 MVP's.

 

And your Pistons colored glasses wouldn't be affecting what you remember, right?

Because Isaiah couldn't take it that he lost to the Bulls after beating them the previous 2 seasons.

Robert Parish did this, not Bird. I did a bit of research and found this.

Bill Laimbeer fouls Larry Bird, who jumps on him and pounds him like veal.

(continuing)

...It may or may not be the same series (it was), but I saw Robert Parish chop Laimbeer down with three lumberjack shots.

It was in Game 5 of the 87 Eastern Conference Finals and it came about as a result of what happened in Game 3.

...But that doesn't stop Pistons center/bad boy Bill Laimbeer (of whom Kurt Rambis once said, "I think his mother and father like him, but I'd have to verify that") from whipping his arm across Bird's face/throat and slamming the Celtics star to the floor. In the ensuing melee, Bird fires the ball at Laimbeer's head.

Nope, it is not EXACTLY what he did, because he didn't do it. Parish pummeled Laimbeer coming down the court and pretty much stood over him, waiting for Laimbeer to do something about it. I think Chief got thrown out of the game for it, and rightfully so, but Laimbeer didn't come back with any punches of his own.

I'd agree about today's teams. But, I watched the Bad Boys too, and I'd put up the 90s Bulls against the Bad Boys as far as who played tougher D. Those Bulls could flat shutdown their opponents. But, give the Bad Boys their due. They changed the way the pro game is played. The pro game used to be about offenses outscoring each other. It hasn't been that way since about 1987 or 88. Somewhere around the time the Pistons won their championships. Hmmm...

Phil's got 9 rings, but he hasn't proven himself.

How many rings did Jordan, Shaq and Kobe win before Phil? I know your argument, that he wasn't taken a team with lesser talent and won with it. Have you seen this year's Lakers? They're Kobe and a bunch of stiffs and are going to the playoffs. That's a pretty good coaching job by Phil.

Nice try, but let's see the evidence before lowering Bird to Isaiah's level. If you find a similar quote by Bird, I'd like to see it. More often than not, Bird ripped his own team far more often than other teams. Such as the 84 Finals when he called his own team a bunch of ******* after getting blown out in Game 3.

Isaiah's comments were made in the locker room after the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals when the Celtics beat them in Game 7. No hint of sour grapes anywhere, nosiree.

"But I have to agree with Rodman. If he were black, he'd be just another good guy."

Making a statement that Bird lacked talent is utter nonsense. Guys with no talent don't make it in the NBA, much less win 3 championships and 3 MVP's.

 

Well by the time I made it back here to answer Tim's post, ccr has already answered sufficiently. Well said.

Tim, I guess all those C v. A debates up in the theology forum has damaged some of your memory, huh?

 

Oops. Sorry for the double post.

 

No question in my mind that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird are the two most overrated players to play in the 80s. All they could do was win championships by raising the level of the other four players' game around them by merely being on the court.

Oh yeah, they had more triple doubles than any other two players over those years, to show how overrated they were, as well.

And if I am not mistaken, were joined in the top five, for their careers by the Big "O"; "His Airness", and "The Dipper", although I believe Jason Kidd is now in that group.

Obviously a bunch that surely were all overrated, as to talent!


Ed

 

And your Pistons colored glasses wouldn't be affecting what you remember, right?


I think hatred colored glasses are more of a problem. Isiah was a great player. Bird was not a better shooter them him. Bird was a great player too but he couldn't jump, run and played flatfooted. He played with his head more then anything. I don't know anyone who thought there weren't more naturlly talented athletes in the league then Bird. And it was Bird who grabbed Lambeer from behind and pulled back his head then punched him and ran backwards.
yeah got carried away a little bit but the piston bad boys beat the bulls so bad for years that only after they dismantle the pistons and b ulls got Rodman did the bulls start winning. Sorry Pistons were not dirty players either. Lambeer was a big guy who knew how to use his body. Shoot, he could jump or drive either. He just postioned his body to get t he most rebouds and he had a great shot also. Yeah He was a jerk but he was not a diry player. That is cry baby stuff form the losers. The game is a lot rougher today then it was even then. Shoot Shap molestes more players everyday then what was happening back then.
Have a great day!

Robert Parish did this, not Bird. I did a bit of research and found this.

Bill Laimbeer fouls Larry Bird, who jumps on him and pounds him like veal.

(continuing)

...It may or may not be the same series (it was), but I saw Robert Parish chop Laimbeer down with three lumberjack shots.

It was in Game 5 of the 87 Eastern Conference Finals and it came about as a result of what happened in Game 3.

...But that doesn't stop Pistons center/bad boy Bill Laimbeer (of whom Kurt Rambis once said, "I think his mother and father like him, but I'd have to verify that") from whipping his arm across Bird's face/throat and slamming the Celtics star to the floor. In the ensuing melee, Bird fires the ball at Laimbeer's head.

Nope, it is not EXACTLY what he did, because he didn't do it. Parish pummeled Laimbeer coming down the court and pretty much stood over him, waiting for Laimbeer to do something about it. I think Chief got thrown out of the game for it, and rightfully so, but Laimbeer didn't come back with any punches of his own.

I'd agree about today's teams. But, I watched the Bad Boys too, and I'd put up the 90s Bulls against the Bad Boys as far as who played tougher D. Those Bulls could flat shutdown their opponents. But, give the Bad Boys their due. They changed the way the pro game is played. The pro game used to be about offenses outscoring each other. It hasn't been that way since about 1987 or 88. Somewhere around the time the Pistons won their championships. Hmmm...

Phil's got 9 rings, but he hasn't proven himself.

How many rings did Jordan, Shaq and Kobe win before Phil? I know your argument, that he wasn't taken a team with lesser talent and won with it. Have you seen this year's Lakers? They're Kobe and a bunch of stiffs and are going to the playoffs. That's a pretty good coaching job by Phil.

Nice try, but let's see the evidence before lowering Bird to Isaiah's level. If you find a similar quote by Bird, I'd like to see it. More often than not, Bird ripped his own team far more often than other teams. Such as the 84 Finals when he called his own team a bunch of ******* after getting blown out in Game 3.

Isaiah's comments were made in the locker room after the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals when the Celtics beat them in Game 7. No hint of sour grapes anywhere, nosiree.

"But I have to agree with Rodman. If he were black, he'd be just another good guy."

Making a statement that Bird lacked talent is utter nonsense. Guys with no talent don't make it in the NBA, much less win 3 championships and 3 MVP's. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Sorry, you got this one wrong here. When the Bulls won their first championship they knocked off the Bad Boys in the playoffs and they had all of their players when they did it. That is when many of the Piston players walked off the court with a few seconds left and refused to shake the Bulls hands after the series. Real class, huh? Joe Dumars was one of the few who stayed out on the coart and shook hands. He was and continues to be a class guy.

Rodman did not join the Bulls untl their 2nd three-peat. The first 3 championships were won without Rodman.

So you cannot argue that the Bulls only got good after the Pistons were dismantled and after they picked up Rodman.

 

yep your right.