WHO should Pastor's Allow to Speak to their Congregations?

[Zaac]

I was just reading a story about Sadie Robertson, of Duck Dynasty fame, speaking at a Baptist megachurch in Georgetown(Dallas), Texas.

Sadie Robertson, the 16-year-old "Duck Dynasty" star and daughter of Duck Commander President Willie Robertson, will share her Christian faith in a message to her peers at a Texas megachurch on Saturday, Aug. 31st.

Youth Pastor Curtis Curry says about 1,500 middle school and high school students are expected to participate in this weekend's Back to School Bash at Celebration Church in Georgetown, Texas. The church searched carefully for a speaker who local students from both urban and rural backgrounds could relate to, which is why they ultimately chose Robertson, said Curry.

Robertson plans to share her testimony and talk about her experience on the reality show, according to Curry. She will also share how God has impacted her life and will help kick off the new school year by encouraging students to be a Christian example to their peers at school.

Curry, who leads Celebration Church's The Cause student ministry, says it's important for teens to have role models, like Robertson, who are about their own age. Young people quickly "write off" adult role models at times, and are more likely to value the influence of one of their peers, he said.

He also says the Robertson family's willingness to share their faith is making an impact on American culture.

"Unfortunately, you see a lot of reality shows, and a lot of reality families, who get on these shows and...it very quickly changes who they are. And unfortunately, a lot of times, it even destroys the family," said Curry. "So I think what's exciting about what they've done is...that the message has stayed the same every single season. And I think that's what makes what they're doing so great."


Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/d...hurch-youth-event-103362/#HGQGyfAjHcqGEK9b.99

I understand the fascination with the Duck Dynasty crew. People want to be entertained. But in talking up these individuals and their show, why aren't evangelical Christians mentioning that the Robertsons and their faith teach that you have to be baptized to get saved?

There is a danger when we seem to be pointing toward TV celebrity qualifying one to be a religious celebrity as well. If people are invited to speak to our youth or adults, shouldn't we be more interested in doctrinal alignment than public celebrity or notoriety?

Should a pastor invite or okay the invite of someone to speak on faith if the person's faith doesn't align with yours?

If you believe an act of man like baptism or joining a church or keeping a list of rules is required to receive God’s grace of salvation, then I may enjoy your show, appreciate your values, want to indeed go hunting with you, but you aren't speaking at my church.

 

[salzer mtn]

To me these Duck people are no more than good moral citizens that believe there is a God. If they truly believe in what their church believes they could be wolves in sheep clothing trying to get their foot in the door with their popularity to deceive.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Unless I can find somewhere where Sadie is telling young people that they must be baptized to be saved .... I don't get the complaint.

The article said she will be talking to her peers about how God has impacted her life, how their generation should be an example of Christ to their peers at school, and she also is coming out with a modest clothing line for teen age girls.

You made it very clear in the other thread of your disapproval of this family.

But until she is cited as teaching her peers that baptism saves you, I have no complaint with her speaking to young people about living for Christ and dressing appropriately.

 

[Don]

I agree with Zaac on this one. The family has made it very clear that they follow Church of Christ doctrine.

What isn't covered in Zaac's post is the church in question. A quick scan of their website reveals "they have something for everyone"; and their ministry pages indicate they're pretty much non-denominational. Thus, it's no surprise that a fundamental belief such as being baptized to be saved is condoned in that place.

 

[Zaac]

To me these Duck people are no more than good moral citizens that believe there is a God. If they truly believe in what their church believes they could be wolves in sheep clothing trying to get their foot in the door with their popularity to deceive.

Salzer, that may well turn out to be a keen observation. It just gives me pause that we seem to so often promote people whose doctrine is opposition to Scripture. And even worse, we place them in front of our flocks so that they may be influenced too.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Hmmmm.... so NOBODY that isn't a dyed-in-the-wool, born-again Southern Baptist (notice I didn't say born again Christian) can speak to Southern Baptists about modesty issues, living an example of Christ to others ..... and more?

We are the ONLY ones who have a monopoly on the truth on encouragement, leading by example in manners of dress, and other non-doctrinal issues?

Hogwash.

I've been encouraged by many people who aren't Southern Baptists about many non-doctrinal issues.

I guess I'm in the minority.

 

[Zaac]

I agree with Zaac on this one. The family has made it very clear that they follow Church of Christ doctrine.

What isn't covered in Zaac's post is the church in question. A quick scan of their website reveals "they have something for everyone"; and their ministry pages indicate they're pretty much non-denominational. Thus, it's no surprise that a fundamental belief such as being baptized to be saved is condoned in that place.

I was just looking up this Celebration Church, Don. And I was hoping they weren't Baptists.:laugh:

But on their website they do mention that http://celebrationchurchtx.com/new-here/beliefs/ they believe We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; His death, burial, and resurrection. Salvation is a gift from God, not a result of our good works or of any human efforts.

which brings to question again, if you believe that, why give a platform to someone who doesn't to influence your youth?

 

[Tom Bryant]

Not sure this is a Baptist church. The pastor is a grad of Oral Roberts.

I hate the idea that students will only really hear from someone their own age.

Or maybe it's just because i think the show is stupid. :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Unless I can find somewhere where Sadie is telling young people that they must be baptized to be saved .... I don't get the complaint.

So why not invite Eugene Robinson or Joel Osteen to speak at your church?

The article said she will be talking to her peers about how God has impacted her life, how their generation should be an example of Christ to their peers at school, and she also is coming out with a modest clothing line for teen age girls.

The article also says she will share her Christian faith.

You made it very clear in the other thread of your disapproval of this family.

Apparently that's how YOU took it as I made no such thing clear about the family. I don't watch the show and have no reason to "disapprove" of the family. I'm speaking to the people pastors allow in their pulpits when their doctrines don't align.

The Robertsons have however been vocal when "speaking on their faith" of baptizing people into Christ.

As God does not author confusion, why introduce it to your people?

But until she is cited as teaching her peers that baptism saves you, I have no complaint with her speaking to young people about living for Christ and dressing appropriately.

Parents instill in their kids what they've been taught.

 

[Zaac]

Hmmmm.... so NOBODY that isn't a dyed-in-the-wool, born-again Southern Baptist (notice I didn't say born again Christian) can speak to Southern Baptists about modesty issues, living an example of Christ to others ..... and more?

Who said Southern Baptists? This is an issue of Biblical doctrine. What you're saying amounts to letting a Mormon come stand in a pulpit just because he's got "good values".

We are the ONLY ones who have a monopoly on the truth on encouragement, leading by example in manners of dress, and other non-doctrinal issues?

Hogwash.

The hogwash lies in presenting confusion and this is what Christians have shown themselves to miss again and again.

If one person starts to think "Well they let Sadie speak so she must know what she's talking about. I'm gonna explore her church. And if her church says I must be baptized to be saved, then that must be the truth because otherwise they wouldn't have let her speak if it wasn't the truth", then we should be on our knees begging God's forgiveness.

I've been encouraged by many people who aren't Southern Baptists about many non-doctrinal issues.

I'm not speaking of encouragement. I'm speaking of placing someone before your congregation to teach or preach knowing that the person's doctrine does not align with your own.

So I ask again, would you and your church be okay letting Joel Osteen stand up there? He's quite the encourager ya know?

I guess I'm in the minority.

Is your stance in alignment with the word of God is the question?

 

[saturneptune]

To answer the question of the op, I think the pastor should allow anyone to speak he feels will edify the church and is of sound doctrine.

I watch very little TV, and have no idea what Duck Dynasty is, nor do I care. It sounds like a Disney version of Dallas. The first I ever heard of it was seeing the T shirts in Wal Mart. A red flag to me is that if it popular with the general population, there is very little chance it is Godly.

 

[Zaac]

To answer the question of the op, I think the pastor should allow anyone to speak he feels will edify the church and is of sound doctrine.

I watch very little TV, and have no idea what Duck Dynasty is, nor do I care. It sounds like a Disney version of Dallas. The first I ever heard of it was seeing the T shirts in Wal Mart. A red flag to me is that if it popular with the general population, there is very little chance it is Godly.

SN, I absolutely agree with that. The AND in your statement is huge because there isn't going to be any edification if the doctrine isn't sound. As I've mentioned in the past, I still haven't seen an episode of the show.

 

[Don]

I was just looking up this Celebration Church, Don. And I was hoping they weren't Baptists.:laugh:

But on their website they do mention that http://celebrationchurchtx.com/new-here/beliefs/ they believe We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ; His death, burial, and resurrection. Salvation is a gift from God, not a result of our good works or of any human efforts.

which brings to question again, if you believe that, why give a platform to someone who doesn't to influence your youth?

But Zaac, the typical Church of Christ includes almost the exact same statements. http://www.comstockchurch.net/faith.html "We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God’s offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin’s penalty. We are saved by God’s grace through faith....We receive through faith the forgiveness of our sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit and the promise of eternal life."

It's only when you read carefully and dig a little deeper that you find statements such as "We accept this gift through faith by our repentance (the turning away from our self-ruled life and turning to Jesus in faith), our confession of Jesus as the Christ the Son of the Living God, and our baptism into Christ" (thus, repentence, confession, and baptism are necessary for salvation).

Superficially speaking, most Christian churches are very much alike -- including Celebration Church. If we don't go any deeper, it's no surprise that someone would give platform to another whose beliefs (on the surface) are similar.

So who's the bigger wolf in sheep's clothing? The Duck Dynasty folks who use any platform they're offered to spread what they believe about God's Word; or the pastors who offer them the platform?

-----
If the young lady is there as a "motivational speaker," then Scarlett is correct; but if the young lady does talk about her personal Christian beliefs, and espouses repentance and/or baptism being necessary for salvation, then Zaac is correct.

But where I agree with Scarlett - take every opportunity to preach the Gospel.

 

[Scarlett O.]

So why not invite Eugene Robinson or Joel Osteen to speak at your church?

I don't know who Eugene Robinson is. Everything that comes out of Joel Osteen's mouth is his "doctrine" of Jesus Christ and salvation and it is false.

The article also says she will share her Christian faith.

By your own admission, you've never watched the show and I can only assume have never heard any of them speak anywhere. Do you have any transcripts of their public speaking engagements? What evidence do you have that Sadie will be telling these young people that baptism saves you? The article said she was speaking about something different - something non-doctrinal.

Apparently that's how YOU took it as I made no such thing clear about the family. I don't watch the show and have no reason to "disapprove" of the family. I'm speaking to the people pastors allow in their pulpits when their doctrines don't align.

"The family touts itself as a Christian family." (Zaac) "It is indeed secular programming about a family who calls itself Christian while teaching (something else)..." (Zaac)

Looks to me like you are questioning their salvation. I'd call that disapproval, wouldn't you?

The Robertsons have however been vocal when "speaking on their faith" of baptizing people into Christ.

Again, you speaking as one who has never watched the show nor to my knowledge been to a speaking engagement. If you have transcript of them speaking to a multi-denominational group and teaching this doctrine - then that's another story altogether.

As God does not author confusion, why introduce it to your people?

What's confusing about her topic of conversation that the article presents?


Here's my thing. Let's lock up Sadie Robertson and NEVER let her speak about modest dress and proper Christian behavior for teens. Let's just keep on letting those teenager watch the VMA awards and learn all about the glorification of gross sexual behavior.

How many of those kids that she is going to speak to about modest dress do you think watched the VMA's or at least googled that immoral performance and watched it online? I daresay all of them.

I will not listen to anyone who tries to teach that baptism saves. But I WILL listen to them on other non-doctrinal issues - if what they are saying is the morally sound.

 

[salzer mtn]

and she also is coming out with a modest clothing line for teen age girls.

Money money, money

 

[saturneptune]

SN, I absolutely agree with that. The AND in your statement is huge because there isn't going to be any edification if the doctrine isn't sound. As I've mentioned in the past, I still haven't seen an episode of the show.

It is not a channel I watch. There seems to be a sharp difference of opinion on this board about the show. One group says they are Godly, and one says they follow the CoC, which I agree is false doctrine. However, if the premise of the show is to portray clean, Christ-like living without getting into the specifics in the CoC of regenerational baptism, it probably does no harm.

I find those who nit pick, especially when it is a point that does not even exist, do more harm to the cause of Christ in some other manner than the original problem. I would have to see the show for a few episodes to be sure.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I watch very little TV, and have no idea what Duck Dynasty is, nor do I care. It sounds like a Disney version of Dallas. The first I ever heard of it was seeing the T shirts in Wal Mart. A red flag to me is that if it popular with the general population, there is very little chance it is Godly.

Dallas is/was about greed, murder, sexually immorality of ALL sorts, and anything nasty. It was a nighttime soap opera.

Duck Dynasty - polar opposite.

You all do not have to watch it nor do you have to like it. Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. They aren't promoting the Church of Christ beliefs on the show.

They are promoting family values and making people laugh with a scripted 30 minutes of silliness. Phil tells his grandson in one episode - find a woman who can cook and lives the Bible. He doesn't tell him anything about baptism - at least not on the show.

 

[salzer mtn]

They have said they are CoC. So what's next ? Let's show people of other faiths and the lost we are fun loving people, we love the Lord, we have good Christian values, What's next ? people will be joining the CoC by the thousands so they can identify with their favorite most popular people. What's next ? The devil setting back laughing his head off.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They have said they are CoC. So what's next ? Let's show people of other faiths and the lost we are fun loving people, we love the Lord, we have good Christian values, What's next ? people will be joining the CoC by the thousands so they can identify with their favorite most popular people. What's next ? The devil setting back laughing his head off.

Whats next ....why everyone wears Camo, all the men grow beards & go duck hunting (using DD's duck calls). And everyone becomes HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!

Ca Ching:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Zaac]

I don't know who Eugene Robinson is. Everything that comes out of Joel Osteen's mouth is his "doctrine" of Jesus Christ and salvation and it is false.

Joel speaks truth at times. he just mixes it in with his own brand of the Gospel. That's what the CoC does.

By your own admission, you've never watched the show and I can only assume have never heard any of them speak anywhere. Do you have any transcripts of their public speaking engagements?

I'm not speaking to what they present on the show. I've got access to the videos of some of the speaking engagements. theyare on the web.

What evidence do you have that Sadie will be telling these young people that baptism saves you? The article said she was speaking about something different - something non-doctrinal.

The article said she would share her "Christian faith".

"The family touts itself as a Christian family." (Zaac) "It is indeed secular programming about a family who calls itself Christian while teaching (something else)..." (Zaac)

Looks to me like you are questioning their salvation. I'd call that disapproval, wouldn't you?

The quote in its entirety:

The show isn't touting religious beliefs. It's a secular program. I don't see the need for people who don't watch the show to get their knickers in a knot over them.

[quote = Zaac]The family touts itself as a Christian family. That's one of the reasons Christians have started watching and telling other Christians they should watch.

I didn't say anything about it not being secular programming. It is indeed secular programming about a family who cals itself Christian while going around teaching the Gospel + baptism= salvation.

Where have I questioned their salvation? I said they are teaching the Gospel + baptism=salvation. Of this, I indeed disapprove. You can call yourself Billy Graham and if you're teaching false doctrine, I'm not inviting you into the pulpit or giving you a platform.

Again, you speaking as one who has never watched the show nor to my knowledge been to a speaking engagement. If you have transcript of them speaking to a multi-denominational group and teaching this doctrine - then that's another story altogether.

The videos are out there of them teaching the doctrine. What does the denomination matter? If it's being taught at all it needs to stop.

What's confusing about her topic of conversation that the article presents?

There is nothing confusing about her topic of conversation. The confusion starts when one person( and believe me, there's always at least one) starts to look deeper into the beliefs of the person their church invited thinking that their church would never invite someone to speak if the person didn't know the truth.

Here's my thing. Let's lock up Sadie Robertson and NEVER let her speak about modest dress and proper Christian behavior for teens.

The article doesn't say anything about her speaking about modest dress and proper Christian behavior. But even if she does, again, I'm looking at the confusion. We can trust her beliefs on modesty because she's obviously been taught this. Why shouldn't we trust her beliefs on baptism to be saved if it's coming from the same place? My church obviously thinks she's been taught correctly otherwise they wouldn't let her speak. So does my church believe that a person has to baptized to get saved?

Let's just keep on letting those teenager watch the VMA awards and learn all about the glorification of gross sexual behavior.

wrong is wrong. It's just easier for the church to point out blatant wrong than it is to point out the wrong that comes dressed as an angel of light.

How many of those kids that she is going to speak to about modest dress do you think watched the VMA's or at least googled that immoral performance and watched it online? I daresay all of them.

And there isn't one person whose doctrine fully aligns itsef with Scripture who they could get to speak to the same thing? Not the pastor's wife? Not one of the deacon's wives? Not one of the young, solid Sunday School teachers?

Modesty is to be modeled in the home. Believe me, it goes a lot farther.

I will not listen to anyone who tries to teach that baptism saves. But I WILL listen to them on other non-doctrinal issues - if what they are saying is the morally sound.

Why believe they have truth about one thing if they so undoctrinally unsound about another?