Who was the FIRST one in the Body of Christ ?

[dan p]

Hi to all , I know that all will not agree with my premise , but I will show proof for my premise .

All can check and see what the Greek PROTOS means !

In 1 Tim 1:15 , Faithful (is) the Word and worthy of all reception , that Christ came into the world to save sinners , of whom I am FIRST/PROTOS .

And 1 Tim 1:16 , But for this reason I was given mercy , in order that in ME
FIRST/PROTOS , Christ Jesus might show forth all longsuffering for a
PATTERN of the ones coming to believe on Him unto everlasting life .

The Greek word translated " chief " is PROTOS , meaning FIRST , and in a seconary sense " chief " when speaking of RANK or DIGNITY , which is not the case here .

What this passage is teaching , is that Paul was the FIRST one to be SAVED in this Dispensation of Grace , and the FIRST member of the Assembly , the Body of Christ .

Reading v16 , Paul was a PATTERN of those following him , that would be saved and the Nation of Israel is NOT in view here at all .

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

I understand this to mean that God started a pattern with Saul of Tarsus in being merciful and longsuffering toward zealous, religious-but-lost human beings who hate Christ and hate Christians. God could have instead justly destroyed Saul of Tarsus for the utter contempt he showed toward Christ and Christians.

The body of Christ is a Jew/Gentile entity. It started in earnest on the Day of Pentecost when Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians were brought together in one body.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I understand this to mean that God started a pattern with Saul of Tarsus in being merciful and longsuffering toward zealous, religious-but-lost human beings who hate Christ and hate Christians. God could have instead justly destroyed Saul of Tarsus for the utter contempt he showed toward Christ and Christians.

The body of Christ is a Jew/Gentile entity. It started in earnest on the Day of Pentecost when Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians were brought together in one body.

Do either one of you have any scripture to prove the church started on the day of Pentecost or with Paul??? Doesn't Matthew 16:18 prove that the church started with Christ not the Holy Spirit on Pentecost? With Christ not Paul? As far as the first members the Bible is very clear that the plural "apostles" were set first in the church (Eph. 2:20; I Cor. 12:28) and that occurred BEFORE Pentecost as the empty office vacated by Judas was being filled BEFORE Pentecost (Acts 1:15-26).

 

[Tom Butler]

In I Cor 15, Paul described himself as one born out of due time, but identified himself with the apostles and with the 500, and claimed to have been the last one to seen the risen Christ personally. His claim to apostleship was based on the same criteria required of the other apostles. He had seen him, and had been personally appointed by the Christ.

I know, I know, that's that "dispensation of grace." But how could he have been the first one? He's way more than 3000 behind, seems to me. Philip preached in Samaria and people were saved. Philip witnessed to the eunuch and the Lord saved him. And before that, Acts 6:7 says the number of disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, including a whole bunch of priests.

But that's beside the point. Jesus established his church during his ministry. His traveling congregation, which eventually settled at Jerusalem, had everything before Pentecost that it had afterward. A Head, a commission, officers, ordinances, and power.

 

[dan p]

There were not Gentiles Christians at Pentecost !!

[

The body of Christ is a Jew/Gentile entity. It started in earnest on the Day of Pentecost when Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians were brought together in one body.[/QUOTE]

Hi , and WHERE is a verse that proves that ASSUMPTION that there were Gentile Christians at Pentecost ???

 

[dan p]

Born out of due Time ?>?

In I Cor 15, Paul described himself as one born out of due time, but identified himself with the apostles and with the 500, and claimed to have been the last one to seen the risen Christ personally.

Hi TB , and whether you KNOW it or not, you are the FIRST ONE that has shown another Proof of why Paul was the first one SAVED member of the Body of Christ ,

But also PROVES why the 12 apostles could NOT be part of the Body of Christ . The reason I have never OP , 1 Cor 15:8 , is that it will be 2 pages long and here are some that person thinking .

Remember that Israel will BORN AGAIN when Christ returns at His Second Coming , Matt 24 and Isa 66:8 , born in a day , and that is Israel .

Paul was EKTROMATI , born out of due time , and abortion , and he way the ONLY one and NOT the 12 apostles .

If the 12 were also aborted , at the same time , but they were not .

This also proves that Paul was the First one in the Body , along with 1 Rom 1:1 and 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 along with 1 Cor 15:6 .

This nalso proves when the Dispensation of the Grace of God begins .

This also proves too the student , that Israel will be set aside , SOON !

 

[Tom Butler]

Brother dan p, I must admit that I am confused and obviously rather dense.

For the life of me I cannot see how any of the scripture verses you quoted prove your point. And I definitely do not see how the one I quoted (1 Cor 15:6) proves your point and not mine.

The events of Acts appear on their face to disprove your contention that Paul was the first one saved in the "newly-formed" body of Christ.

I have read and re-read your posts in this thread. I'm wondering if I'm the only one who cannot make sense of them.

 

[dan p]

I cannot see ?

Brother dan p, I must admit that I am confused and obviously rather dense.

For the life of me I cannot see how any of the scripture verses you quoted prove your point. And I definitely do not see how the one I quoted (1 Cor 15:6) proves your point and not mine.

The events of Acts appear on their face to disprove your contention that Paul was the first one saved in the "newly-formed" body of Christ.

I have read and re-read your posts in this thread. I'm wondering if I'm the only one who cannot make sense of them.

Hi Tom Butler , and if this the first time that you have heard this explaination , DO NOT FEEL DENSE .

It took me a long time also . I was a SO Baptist for over 10 years , before I realized what Paul was saying , so just keep studying . Trust me , when I say that there many Dispensationalist , even with in the So Baptist assemblies , for I have met them . Read Eph 3:-9 ; Col 1;25 ; 1 Cor 9:17 .

Our Assemblies has more memebers outside the USA and we have 3 Grace Colleges in OREGON and in St Louis and in Grand Rapids . I am not alone !

When you see what Eph 3:5 means , you will be on your way . I will be back the 25 of Sep . if you have any questions ?

 

[RAdam]

Dispensational teaching is the most confusing thing I've ever tried to understand. It leads to nothing but confusion. The simplest sections of scripture become confusing. The simplest doctrines become confusing. People who are subject to this erroneous teaching become confused.

Instead of going to the bible with an assumption that there is a difference between Peter and Paul, between Jewish believers and Gentile believers, etc, why not go the bible and see what it says. It clearly says there is one Lord, one church, one gospel, one baptism, etc.

 

[DHK]

Dispensational teaching is the most confusing thing I've ever tried to understand. It leads to nothing but confusion. The simplest sections of scripture become confusing. The simplest doctrines become confusing. People who are subject to this erroneous teaching become confused.

Instead of going to the bible with an assumption that there is a difference between Peter and Paul, between Jewish believers and Gentile believers, etc, why not go the bible and see what it says. It clearly says there is one Lord, one church, one gospel, one baptism, etc.

Dispensationalism is easy to understand. No need to slam it.
What is confusing is "dan p." His grammar is atrocious. He has bad spelling, and his theology is confusing at best. That, put bluntly, makes his posts confusing to read. It had nothing to do with dispensationalism--I don't even know if he is a dispensationalist.

 

[RAdam]

People who advocate a system where Peter taught one thing, Paul another, the church is one thing, the body of Christ another, these believers followed the Mosaic Law, the gentiles didn't, and so forth and so on is bringing confusion to the bible. That is confusing. I don't care how well one presents it, it is confusing.

 

[DHK]

People who advocate a system where Peter taught one thing, Paul another, the church is one thing, the body of Christ another, these believers followed the Mosaic Law, the gentiles didn't, and so forth and so on is bringing confusion to the bible. That is confusing. I don't care how well one presents it, it is confusing.

Yes that would be confusing. Tell me, who teaches that? I am dispensational. And I don't teach that.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

Proselyte Jews (Gentiles who had converted to Judaism) very likely were among the 3,000 people who were converted on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:10). If this is so, then the Jew/Gentile entity (Eph. 3:1-9) known as the body of Christ began on the Day of Pentecost.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Proselyte Jews (Gentiles who had converted to Judaism) very likely were among the 3,000 people who were converted on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:10). If this is so, then the Jew/Gentile entity (Eph. 3:1-9) known as the body of Christ began on the Day of Pentecost.

The Body of Christ is not dependent upon any mixture of races or genders for its existence. It can be the body of Christ at Jerusalem before Pentecost with Jewish members only or the body of Christ at Jerualem with Jewish and gentile members. However, the church or the body of Christ did not begin on Pentecost and there is not one scripture that states that or demands that.

 

[RAdam]

The disciples of Jesus were already meeting together in one accord before Pentecost. On that day 3,000 were added to them, added to the disciples already meeting together in one accord. The church already existed prior to Pentecost, but now the Holy Ghost has been poured out upon them and great numbers have been brought in and added to those already part of the congregation.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

There is no evidence that the body of Christ existed before the Day of Pentecost, is there?

 

[RAdam]

Yes there is. They were meeting together in one accord before Pentecost it says in Acts 1. Luke 24 tells us where they were meeting: in the temple. At the ends of Acts 2 it tells us that there were added unto them 3,000 souls. Added unto, as in the body already existed and now people were added to that body. It didn't come into existence, else the scripture would have used different terms. After there were added to them 3,000 souls, they are said to continue meeting together in one accord in the temple.

Ok, so we have a group of people meeting together in one accord in the temple prior to Pentecost. We have a people meeting together in one accord in the temple after Pentecost, only now there have been people added to them. Sounds like the same institution that existed after Pentecost, existed before Pentecost.

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

When did the New Covenant take effect? Were the people assembling before the Day of Pentecost a New Covenant church? That is, did they live under the Old Covenant or under the New Covenant?

 

[RAdam]

Let me ask you a question. Were Jesus and John the Baptist preachers of the new covenant or old covenant?

 

[adisciplinedlearner]

They preached a New Covenant gospel and practiced New Covenant baptism, but this was in preparation for the coming of the New Covenant era upon the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. John and Jesus lived under the Old Covenant.