Who was the Great Commission given to?

[The Biblicist]

My question was:
"Can you find a scripture (other than in the Gospels) that either specifically says or even implies that laymen are directed to witness to the unsaved?"

The above does not answer the question. So you could not find a scripture that directs laymen to witness to the unsaved. Apparently, there is no scripture that says or implies that laymen are directed to witness to the unsaved. Perhaps someone else knows of a scripture that answers the question.

Of all the instructions that Paul gives to the churches in his letters, I don't think the issue of laymen witnessing to the unsaved is addressed.

Rev. 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

1Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

Rom. 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Finally, the command to be witnesses unto all nations is part and parcel of the apostolic doctrine or the faith once delivered that was taught all the congregations. The following phrases are synonyms for "the faith" once delivered: (The faith, The doctrine, The Tradition, The truth, The apostolic doctrine, The doctrine of Christ).

 

[drfuss]

Rev. 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

1Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

Rom. 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Finally, the command to be witnesses unto all nations is part and parcel of the apostolic doctrine or the faith once delivered that was taught all the congregations. The following phrases are synonyms for "the faith" once delivered: (The faith, The doctrine, The Tradition, The truth, The apostolic doctrine, The doctrine of Christ).

You still have not shown any direct instruction for laymen to witness to the unsaved.

I Th 1:8 - Thessalonica was a stop for travelers who visited the church at Thessalonica and then told Christians in other places about the faith, etc. of the church at Thessalonica. Commentaries indicate that the context is not that members of the church witnessed to the unsaved.

Romans 16:19 - There is no indication in Romans that obedience means laymen witnessing to the unsaved, that I know of.

Rev. 22:17 - The Spirit and the Bride say come. Nothing is said about laymen witnessing.

I am not saying that laymen should not witness. But there is no scripture we can use to say that laymen are required to witness. Yet, laymen witnessing to the unsaved is promoted as if the scripture requires it.

It appears that an over interpretation of the Great Commission is the best scriptural source for encouraging laymen to witness.

 

[The Biblicist]

Rev. 22:17 - The Spirit and the Bride say come. Nothing is said about laymen witnessing.

So you interpret the phrase "he that heareth let him say come" in Rev. 22:17 to be applicable only to ordained men?

 

[saturneptune]

My question was:
"Can you find a scripture (other than in the Gospels) that either specifically says or even implies that laymen are directed to witness to the unsaved?"

The above does not answer the question. So you could not find a scripture that directs laymen to witness to the unsaved. Apparently, there is no scripture that says or implies that laymen are directed to witness to the unsaved. Perhaps someone else knows of a scripture that answers the question.

Of all the instructions that Paul gives to the churches in his letters, I don't think the issue of laymen witnessing to the unsaved is addressed.

And you cannot prove that we are not to, and really, what does layman really mean in Jesus Christ after reading the book of Hebrews? So if you want to ignore Matt 28, what do you propose to do with your time, wait for the Lord to take his magic wand and zap regeneration into the person you would have otherwise told Jesus about. Oh, I remember the verse, faith cometh by osmosis..............

 

[steaver]

It never ceases to amaze me. After studying the word of God and debating on boards such as this board for 15 years now you would think I would have heard just about every strange doctrine man has conjured up. This is the first time I ever heard Christians argue against Matthew's record of commission being for all Christians to carry out. It's just sad raying:

 

[steaver]

You still have not shown any direct instruction for laymen to witness to the unsaved.

I Th 1:8 - Thessalonica was a stop for travelers who visited the church at Thessalonica and then told Christians in other places about the faith, etc. of the church at Thessalonica. Commentaries indicate that the context is not that members of the church witnessed to the unsaved.

Romans 16:19 - There is no indication in Romans that obedience means laymen witnessing to the unsaved, that I know of.

Rev. 22:17 - The Spirit and the Bride say come. Nothing is said about laymen witnessing.

I am not saying that laymen should not witness. But there is no scripture we can use to say that laymen are required to witness. Yet, laymen witnessing to the unsaved is promoted as if the scripture requires it.

It appears that an over interpretation of the Great Commission is the best scriptural source for encouraging laymen to witness.

Is "laymen" a biblical term? How would you define this with scripture? Like say, these Christians here were laymen.

 

[drfuss]

So you interpret the phrase "he that heareth let him say come" in Rev. 22:17 to be applicable only to ordained men?

Okay, after looking at this verse again, it does apply to all Christians.

I still find it interesting that the Epistles give so much instruction and still they do not specifically mention laymen witnessing, when it is emphasized so much in the churches today.

So we have one verse that specifically instructs laymen to witness. Good, that is better than no scriptures.

 

[drfuss]

And you cannot prove that we are not to, and really, what does layman really mean in Jesus Christ after reading the book of Hebrews? So if you want to ignore Matt 28, what do you propose to do with your time, wait for the Lord to take his magic wand and zap regeneration into the person you would have otherwise told Jesus about. Oh, I remember the verse, faith cometh by osmosis..............

The issue is not "should laymen witness". The issue is do we have a scripture that specifically instructs laymen to witness when it is emphasized so much in the churches.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And you cannot prove that we are not to, and really, what does layman really mean in Jesus Christ after reading the book of Hebrews? So if you want to ignore Matt 28, what do you propose to do with your time, wait for the Lord to take his magic wand and zap regeneration into the person you would have otherwise told Jesus about. Oh, I remember the verse, faith cometh by osmosis..............

So in other words, you think the Lords capabilities are like a magic show? LOL, May I ask you what Presbyterian Church you belonged to? I would venture to guess that it was NOT OPX or PCA...... RIGHT.

 

[Amy.G]

The issue is not "should laymen witness". The issue is do we have a scripture that specifically instructs laymen to witness when it is emphasized so much in the churches.

Jesus said we are salt and light. If we do not witness, our salt is tasteless and our light is hidden under a bushel.

 

[steaver]

I still find it interesting that the Epistles give so much instruction and still they do not specifically mention laymen witnessing, when it is emphasized so much in the churches today.

So we have one verse that specifically instructs laymen to witness. Good, that is better than no scriptures.

Actually brother, the instructions to witness are laid out within the Epistles to the church. Was Paul present at Jesus' commission recorded in Matthew? Yet Paul became saved and became a witness.

There is something Paul said that should end this false teaching that the great commission is not spoken as a commandment to all Christians.

(Philippians 4:9)
"Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do:"

Can't escape this one!

 

[drfuss]

Actually brother, the instructions to witness are laid out within the Epistles to the church. Was Paul present at Jesus' commission recorded in Matthew? Yet Paul became saved and became a witness.

There is something Paul said that should end this false teaching that the great commission is not spoken as a commandment to all Christians.

(Philippians 4:9)
"Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do:"

Can't escape this one!

Those things refer to the things mentioned in verse 8 which have nothing to do with witnessing.

Philippians 4:8,9
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Keep looking for witnessing scriptures and good luck.

 

[steaver]

Those things refer to the things mentioned in verse 8 which have nothing to do with witnessing.

Philippians 4:8,9
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Keep looking for witnessing scriptures and good luck.

Sorry brother, you cannot sincerely dismiss the command in that way.

The things Paul describes in verse 9 are things Paul says to "think on". This is perfectly clear when Paul ends with "think on these things".

Paul then goes on to describe further things. Paul does not then continue on about "these things". Paul changes the directive to "those things". Things which ye have "learned", things which ye have "received", things which ye have "heard" and things which ye have "seen in me", DO!

Luck hasn't anything to do with it, the scriptures are full of examples and directives to witness.

Here is just one example....

"But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;

So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other [places];

And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

(Phil 1:12-18)

As you can clearly see, many brethren are preaching the word doing exactly what Paul had instructed them to do many times I am sure and is recorded for us in Philippians 4:9 when Paul says "Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you."

Further evidence given in scripture that verse 4:9 is speaking about the things Paul is doing is found in chapter 3 verse 17, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample"

I really don't understand why Christians want to convince themselves that they are not part of the great commission. Without this commission and Christians obeying this commission the church would have never multiplied. Praise God for obedient Christians!

I would ye should understand brother! :love2:

 

[savedbymercy]

Nothing has been said to change anything, The Commission Jesus gave in Matt 28 was strictly for the Twelve Plus Paul.

Christ was with them until the end of the World, since their Ministry commenced that age ! Heb 9:26

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I disagree as well that end of the world here means the end of the jewish economy, I prefer Pinks Take on this :

"But now," not at the beginning of human history; "once," that is, once for all, never to be repeated; "in the end of the world," or in "the fullness of time" (Gal. 4:4). This expression "end of the world" or more literally, "consummation of the ages" is here used antithetically from "since the foundation of the world" which usually has reference to the first entrance of sin into the world. and God’s dispensation of grace in Christ thereon; as "before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4, etc.) expresses eternity and God’s counsels therein. The Divine distinctions of time with respect to God’s grace toward His Church, may be referred to three general heads: that before the law, during the law, and since the incarnation of Christ unto the end of the world. This last season, absolutely considered, is called the "fullness of times" (Eph. 1:10), when all that God had designed in the dispensation of His grace was come to a head, and wherein no alteration should be made till the earth was no more.

 

[drfuss]

Sorry brother, you cannot sincerely dismiss the command in that way.

The things Paul describes in verse 9 are things Paul says to "think on". This is perfectly clear when Paul ends with "think on these things".

Paul then goes on to describe further things. Paul does not then continue on about "these things". Paul changes the directive to "those things". Things which ye have "learned", things which ye have "received", things which ye have "heard" and things which ye have "seen in me", DO!

Luck hasn't anything to do with it, the scriptures are full of examples and directives to witness.

Here is just one example....

"But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;

So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other [places];

And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

(Phil 1:12-18)

As you can clearly see, many brethren are preaching the word doing exactly what Paul had instructed them to do many times I am sure and is recorded for us in Philippians 4:9 when Paul says "Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you."

Further evidence given in scripture that verse 4:9 is speaking about the things Paul is doing is found in chapter 3 verse 17, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample"

I really don't understand why Christians want to convince themselves that they are not part of the great commission. Without this commission and Christians obeying this commission the church would have never multiplied. Praise God for obedient Christians!

I would ye should understand brother! :love2:

You keep changing the issue. My issue is not "was the gospel preached"; the issue is "do we have a scripture that directs laymen to witness". So far you have not shown one in the epistles.

You can separate verses 8 and 9 for your purposes if you want, but the context in verse 9 is referring back to verse 8.

Keep looking.

 

[steaver]

You keep changing the issue. The issue is not "was the gospel preached"; the issue is "do we have a scripture that directs laymen to witness". So far you have not shown one in the epistles.

You can separate verses 8 and 9 for your purposes if you want, but the context in verse 9 is referring back to verse 8.

Keep looking.

Witnessing and preaching are one and the same thing. I believe you might be defining preaching too narrowly in your thoughts. Many times I have a conversation with a lost person or even a saved person and speak about Jesus and sin and they will say "stop preaching at me". Even the lost understand that preaching is speaking God's Word no matter what the situation, one on one, or to a large crowd of people from a pulpit. Preaching is simply speaking God's Word into the life of another, which is witnessing Jesus Christ.

 

[steaver]

You keep changing the issue. My issue is not "was the gospel preached"; the issue is "do we have a scripture that directs laymen to witness". So far you have not shown one in the epistles.

You can separate verses 8 and 9 for your purposes if you want, but the context in verse 9 is referring back to verse 8.

Keep looking.

I also asked you awhile back to define "laymen" from the scriptures. Can you do this please?

 

[drfuss]

I also asked you awhile back to define "laymen" from the scriptures. Can you do this please?

There are a number of scriptures that differentiate between laymen and preachers.

An example scripture that indicates a difference between preachers and laymen is Hebrews 13: 7 which is directed to laymen:

"7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation."

I think I have made my point on this thread that there are no scriptures specifically directing laymen to witness to the unsaved although some have been interpreted to say that. So I am signing off of this thread.

BTW, before someone again gets the wrong idea, I believe that laymen should witness to the unsaved. However, the scripture does not specifically say that. It is interesting how laymen witnessing to the unsaved, is stressed in our churches even though there is no specific scripture to support it.

Thank you for the discussion.

 

[steaver]

There are a number of scriptures that differentiate between laymen and preachers.

An example scripture that indicates a difference between preachers and laymen is Hebrews 13: 7 which is directed to laymen:

"7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation."

I think I have made my point on this thread that there are no scriptures specifically directing laymen to witness to the unsaved although some have been interpreted to say that. So I am signing off of this thread.

BTW, before someone again gets the wrong idea, I believe that laymen should witness to the unsaved. However, the scripture does not specifically say that. It is interesting how laymen witnessing to the unsaved, is stressed in our churches even though there is no specific scripture to support it.

Thank you for the discussion.

Again, I believe you are misunderstanding the difference between a Pastor and a preacher as revealed in the scriptures. All Christians are to be preaching/witnessing (speaking God's Word) into the lives of others. Not all are to be Pastors. Pastoring is a position to be given to those marked as mature in the faith. Hebrews 13 which you referenced talks about Pastors who are in rule over us.

I have given you evidence from the scriptures that all should be witnessing/preaching. You never dealt with my last post referencing Philippians.

I would only challenge your pov by saying this, if there is no scripture instructing non-elders, pastors or deacons to give witness, then why would you believe it should be done?

Btw, I appreceate having a conversation with one who does not resort to personal attacks. Thank you for the polite discussion! Godspeed!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Obviously you either believe in the continuation of apostles right up to the end of the world or else you believe the Great Commission has already been fulfilled and there is no Great Commission beyond the apostolic age.

Christ does say "with you until the end of the world" doesn't he?

GE:


When you lift high the banner of the Gospel, you lift high the ‘Apostolic Commission’ the New Testament Scriptures.

When the Scriptures are preached, the apostles are preached.

NNE has the right or the privileges of Christian apostleship; it belongs to those commissioned by Christ in Person or secondarily and FINALLY, to those in turn commissioned by the apostles in person.

The 'Apostolic Commission' places every Christian under absolute authority under the Head, Christ, of the Scriptures which are the apostles' legacy to all generations of believers after them. Apostleship was and is once for all. The apostles still speak and exercise authority through the NT Scriptures. The 'Apostolic Commission' is ad hoc and proprietary limited.