Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will.—Ephesians 1:11

[Alan Gross]

Sorry Dave that's absolutely ludicrous. The Old Covenant also included obeying God about animal sacrifices and their blood which was a type of the blood of Christ to come. With the animal sacrifices it covered their sins but did not remit them but it still had to do with a spiritual aspect.



That's not the point. The point is the Old Covenant still gave instructions for them to carry out that connected to a positive spiritual end result. You of coarse and all other Calvinists must deny that or your paradigm goes down the tube. It is none-the-less true something you need to acknowledge as being so.

'Connection', by Law, Administrate death.

 

[Alan Gross]

If our sinful nature only allows us to reject God, and when we are regenerated we cannot help but have faith, then why do we still sin as believer? What kind of nature believes in God but still sins?

The old sinful Nature is still present.

Not in the mind of the one who 'believes' with the old nature of sin.

The 'believer', is only 'believing', with their sin-cursed mind, of their old Nature, and have not seen their sinful Nature, yet.

They are still in their sinful Nature and are well and have no need of a Physician.

Their mental 'belief', is in their mind, because they have not recognized their sin, from God's View, and only by their own 'will' that 'worketh' what they think with their mind is 'belief'.

They do not have two Nature's, because they have not Partaken of the Divine Nature, because they think they are already Divine, and absolutely supplied with the capibility of being Jesus.

They are only sinning in unbelief, when they think with their old Nature of sin, that they are 'believing' something, when their Testimony is nothing but unbelief.

The unbeliever who God Shows their sinful condition before His Eternal Holiness, must be brought by The Holy Spirit to Conviction of their helplessness and hopelessness of being a Hellbound sinner, with an old Nature that is only CAPIBLE of sin, as a child deserving of 'Wrath', as every Human Being is that has ever been born.

And no 'believing', blindly, in a lost religion, by a lost religious person will enable them to no longer still be the blind leading the blind.

That is why their lost old Nature can't decern The God of The Bible, Who Works All Things after The Counsel of His Own Will.

They just say, "no, He doesn't".

"I do".

 

[MB]

... "no such thing as forced love".. is just reasoning, using a mind effected by the curse of sin. It is philosophy. Made up by man, to pretend to support false teaching.

God Hates sin. All human beings are sinners, who sin, and practice sin, because it is our nature to sin and do nothing but sin, there is none good, not one.

The Scriptures you quoted from Matthew are to Saved souls, like most verses misquoted by those who have no will, as Jesus Said.

"You will not come to Me that you might have Life".

God has given Adam a choice and Adam sinned and we all sinned in Adam, because if it was us in the Garden, we were no match, in our mutability, for Satan.

Same then, as now.

We would have not chosen to be immutable, because we would not have been, and we would have changed and fallen, just as our mutable Greastest Grandfather did.

We are all children of Adam and have a mind at emnity with God.

None more obvious than those who glory in their self and boast of 'their belief', or 'their faith'.

You never see them give Jesus Credit for Being The Savior.

They will never say, "Who", is talking about "God", and that "God Works All Things After The Cousel of His Own Will."

Because, they "will not".

Their "will", is not God.

And their "will", is not God's Spirit.

Their "will" "will not come" to God,
Who is Spirit.

God is Love.

God Hates sin.

They do not believe that, or have Faith in God's Son.

They have their own faith that works all things after the counsel of their own will that will not come to Him that they might have Life.

You know what Satan always points men away from the truth. You do the same as he.
MB

 

[Alan Gross]

You know what Satan always points men away from the truth. You do the same as he.
MB

That's still the clay telling The Potter what He Can and Can't Do, according to the clay's sin-cursed Philosophy, using their mind, reasoning with their old Nature, and making false accusations inspired by the Accuser.

While lost people who were in their old Nature with a mind at emnity with God, were without strength, ungodly, God-Hating sinners, like me, as God's enemy, they and I had no love for God, whatsoever, and Deserved The Wrath of God.

"6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7. "For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8. "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10. "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,..."

 

[Revmitchell]

The old sinful Nature is still present.

Not in the mind of the one who 'believes' with the old nature of sin.

The 'believer', is only 'believing', with their sin-cursed mind, of their old Nature, and have not seen their sinful Nature, yet.

They are still in their sinful Nature and are well and have no need of a Physician.

Their mental 'belief', is in their mind, because they have not recognized their sin, from God's View, and only by their own 'will' that 'worketh' what they think with their mind is 'belief'.

They do not have two Nature's, because they have not Partaken of the Divine Nature, because they think they are already Divine, and absolutely supplied with the capibility of being Jesus.

They are only sinning in unbelief, when they think with their old Nature of sin, that they are 'believing' something, when their Testimony is nothing but unbelief.

The unbeliever who God Shows their sinful condition before His Eternal Holiness, must be brought by The Holy Spirit to Conviction of their helplessness and hopelessness of being a Hellbound sinner, with an old Nature that is only CAPIBLE of sin, as a child deserving of 'Wrath', as every Human Being is that has ever been born.

And no 'believing', blindly, in a lost religion, by a lost religious person will enable them to no longer still be the blind leading the blind.

That is why their lost old Nature can't decern The God of The Bible, Who Works All Things after The Counsel of His Own Will.

They just say, "no, He doesn't".

"I do".

I have read this three times and still I am lost. Can you give a more clear and succinct answer?

 

[Alan Gross]

I have read this three times and still I am lost. Can you give a more clear and succinct answer?

Except a man be Born Again, he can not see The Kingdom of God.

John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

4 "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

That question involves Natural childbirth, which we know has, 'the mother' s water breaking' associated with it, anytime a child is born, Naturally, as a sinner.

I came forth from my mother's womb, speaking lies, as all sinners naturally do.


5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

In that verse, Jesus mentions the mother's water breaking, when the natural flesh of a baby is birthed from the natural womb, during childbirth, when He Says," born of water".

That is the flesh being born, naturally, as we all were.

Then, Jesus reinerates:

6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh;"

That is natural childbirth that every Human Being experiences, that involves the mother's water breaking.

"and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Having been Naturally born, in the flesh, a Human Being is a Natural Decendant of the First man Created by God.

God Gave that First man a period of Time, in the Garden, in which Adam was not a sinner.

However, by the Determination and Eternal Wisdom and Decision that Belongs Only to The Triune Godhead, in Eternity Past, Who Works All Things after The Councel of His Own Will, God Allowed Adam to be 'changable' and not make Adam a robot and to not make him 'god'.

Adam had the 'changable' will and choise within him that could knowingly deside to transgress God's Law and disobey God's Command and sin against The Holy God of The Universe, with his eyes wide open.

When, Adam sinned, it proved he was not God.

Adam was not a Law Keeper, as Jesus was.

Adam was a Law Breaker.

And, as God Had Predicted, "in the Day you eat thereof, you shall surely die".

Sin results in death and all of us that are Naturally born in the flesh will die one day, as the result of being sinners.

We are Natural born sinners, as the children of Adam.

No Human child has to be taught how to lie.

Whoever knocked over the lamp couldn't have been them, when they were running through the house.

For One Very Good Reason.

What's that?

Because, "I didn't do it".

They were an 'innocent bystander', right?


7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

The death Adam experienced didn't put him in a grave that day he "ate of the fruit" God Commanded him Not to Eat.

Adam had had an Enablement, by The Holy Spirit, when he and Eve, "knew not that they were naked".

Adam was Created without sin, and had the Glory of God Protecting him, but that Holy Spirit's Presence and Protection was taken away and Adam's remaining life in his soul "died", and was then, 'dead', Spiritually.

Adam was born in the image of God.

Seth was born in the image of Adam.

We are children of Seth and Adam.

No one is 'a child of God', naturally, or an 'innocent baby', and no Human has ever had any 'spark of Divinity'.

Naturally born lost sinners are dead, Spiritually, in trespasses and sins, and have the Natural fleshly capibility Only to sin.

That is Adam's fault and our fault, because we would have changed and sinned, because we would not have been Created, "God", and we do chose to sin, in habit, in practice, and in defiance of God's Will, by our sin-cursed Natural will.

That Natural State of being born in the flesh Must Be Re-Generated and a Re-creation within our soul to take place, for any Human to also have a Spirit of God Placed within them, in The New Birth from Above, to have any Love or Understanding of God, Who is Spirit.

You must be born again.

Repent, turn from your Natural sinful, helpless, hopeless self before God and assume your position as a Naturally born sinful Human child of Adam.

And fully Trust and Believe The Bible Record.

God so Loved the World (of not only the Jews, but also of the Gentile World, i. e., the World, the whole Chosen Elect, no matter who in the whole World of all people they were)

that He Gave His Only Begotten Son ( born without sin, Who Lived a Perfect sinless Life to Present as a Sacrifice in Place of sinners, to Satisfy God's Justice)

that whosoever believes (which says, 'whosoever believes', because those are God's Chosen Elect that He Gave Jesus to Purchase with His Blood and they are Given 'belief')

on Him (in Jesus as their Savior from their Condemned Natural State, as a God-Hating sinner against His Perfect Eternal Holiness)

should not perish ( ever)

but have Everlasting Life (the soul that sinneth, it shall die, but not the soul that has been Made a Partaker of The Divine Nature, also, in the New Birth, because The Holy Spirit is God in you, the Hope of Glory.

God does not die.

Absent from the body, Home with The Lord.

Why seek ye the Living among the dead?

God is the God of the Living.)

Being Born Again does not Fully Glorify the Human Being during this life.

A Born Again Saint, child of God is still living in their Earthly vessel of flesh.

A Born Again Human has a Divine Nature of God's Spirit Re-Generated, Re-Born in them as well as their old Natural flesh Nature, which is their body that is still subject to death and is still CAPIBLE of sinning.

They have Two Nature's.

The lost have one Nature of sinful flesh.

There are two kinds of people on Earth.

Lost and Saved.

Once I was blind (lost)

... but now, I see (Saved).

 

[Revmitchell]

A Born Again Human has a Divine Nature of God's Spirit Re-Generated, Re-Born in them as well as their old Natural flesh Nature, which is their body that is still subject to death and is still CAPIBLE of sinning.

They have Two Nature's.

The lost have one Nature of sinful flesh.

There are two kinds of people on Earth.

Lost and Saved.

Once I was blind (lost)

... but now, I see (Saved).

I deleted everything that was not directly related to my question. In answer to what you have said here I ask, so you are saying our nature is not changed but we are given a second nature? Is that your position?

 

[Alan Gross]

I deleted everything that was not directly related to my question. In answer to what you have said here I ask, so you are saying our nature is not changed but we are given a second nature? Is that your position?

Except a man be Born Again, he can not see The Kingdom of God.

John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

I can't explain Spiritual Realities to that which is born of water.

That which is flesh is flesh.

Remember that you are reasoning with a mind effected by the curse of sin.

That which is Spirit is Spirit.

If you want to twist around some Judo of carnal Philosophies that is always cute, but the Born Again child of God Follows The Spirit of God and Believes The Word.

Because you want to throw some Word doesn't mean it follows finite thinking.

It means finite thinking can't see it.

So, what was your dead Spirit set up all about?

 

[Revmitchell]

Except a man be Born Again, he can not see The Kingdom of God.

John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

I can't explain Spiritual Realities to that which is born of water.

That which is flesh is flesh.

Remember that you are reasoning with a mind effected by the curse of sin.

That which is Spirit is Spirit.

If you want to twist around some Judo of carnal Philosophies that is always cute, but the Born Again child of God Follows The Spirit of God and Believes The Word.

Because you want to throw some Word doesn't mean it follows finite thinking.

It means finite thinking can't see it.

So, what was your dead Spirit set up all about?

Soo....no answer for my question?

 

[Alan Gross]

Soo....no answer for my question?

I believe The Bible.

I believe what The Bible Teaches a Born Again soul, regarding the two Nature's resident in the Constitution of a child of God.

The body has not been Glorified in The Resurrection to be sinless and Reunited with The Spirit of God that Indwells a Born Again Believer, who has experienced the New Birth, until they Receive a Glorified Resurrected body, in which to live sinlessly throughout Eternity.

Plenty of lost religious souls 'believe' they were basically God to start with, and are pretty much God, now, for sure, and will just be Sinless here and in Heaven, based on their big time 'will'.

Jesus means nothing to them.

If you want to add your plaything game denial of Scripture in here, get it over with, without your fake goofiness 'questions' that condemns Bible Believers to Hell, as Satan loving retards, when your carnal trick seems to work for your fleshly reasoning.

 

[Alan Gross]

Soo....no answer for my question?

When you quote a misinterpreted verse that has an Interpretation of referring to The New Born Again Spirit Nature, only, and mistakenly attempt to Apply it to the Natural Born Sin-Cursed Carnal Flesh of an Individual that is dying and will die, just like all the dead ones before it.

... I will say, "you have quoted a misinterpreted verse that has an Interpretation of referring to The New Born Again Spirit Nature, only, and mistakenly attempted to Apply it to the Natural Born Sin-Cursed Carnal Flesh of an Individual that is dying and will die, just like all the dead ones before it."

Will that make you happy?

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe The Bible.

I believe what The Bible Teaches a Born Again soul, regarding the two Nature's resident in the Constitution of a child of God.

The body has not been Glorified in The Resurrection to be sinless and Reunited with The Spirit of God that Indwells a Born Again Believer, who has experienced the New Birth, until they Receive a Glorified Resurrected body, in which to live sinlessly throughout Eternity.

Plenty of lost religious souls 'believe' they were basically God to start with, and are pretty much God, now, for sure, and will just be Sinless here and in Heaven, based on their big time 'will'.

Jesus means nothing to them.

If you want to add your plaything game denial of Scripture in here, get it over with, without your fake goofiness 'questions' that condemns Bible Believers to Hell, as Satan loving retards, when your carnal trick seems to work for your fleshly reasoning.

Okie dokie.

 

[percho]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1 NKJV
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Gen 2:1,3 NKJV

What did God then, do?

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Romans 8:20 NKJV

Could Adam or even you, today, by your free will, un-subject yourself from the subjection of God or must he and you wait for, the hope?

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24,25 NKJV
Eph 1:10 NKJV that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[fn]which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.