37818
Well-Known Member
Paul was not yet a Bellevuer. during Matthew 4;17.
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Who Wrote Book of Hebrews
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37818
Well-Known Member
Paul was not yet a believer during Matthew 4;17.
Yes. Many were not Chriatians before Jesus called the first Disciples (Matthew 4:17).
My point is that Paul maintained that he heard from Jesus on earth as an Apostle "out of time" (Jesus appeared to him) whereas the writer of Hebrews seems to recount strictly secondhand knowledge of Christ.
You are correct that this fact makes Paul unlikely the writer as many more (like Apollos, Barnabas, Clement, etc.) related the gospel they heard from others.
Yep. None of the Disciples were believers prior to Matthew 4:17. This was before Jesus called the Disciples.
Which seems to be confirmed by the author stating that the apostles were able to confirm the gospel by their signs and wonders, but that he seemed to see that as being past now, as already confirmed
37818
Well-Known Member
Amongst those disciples were the ones that author cited, ". . . that heard him; . . ." from that beginning, Hebrews 2:3, Matthew 4:17.
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Matthew 4:17 is just before Jesus called the first Disciples. Hebrews 4:17 simply states that the "us" heard from those who heard Jesus.
Paul claimed to have heard Jesus (this was a major point Paul made). So yes, it woukd be odd for Paul to shift to a secondhand disciple as he rested his authority as an Apostle from his experience.
The writers that the early Christians suggested heard Jesus' words from others.
In the end, we can't know who wrote Hebrews (the human writer). Paul is unlikely but possible if dictated and summarized by another. But those the early Christians suggested may be more probable candidates.
The author though there implies that he was not an apostle
37818
Well-Known Member
Not if Paul was the book of Hebrews author. Hebrews 2:3 does not disallow the Apostle Paul.
There is no internal nor external evidence to support him as its author though
37818
Well-Known Member
Not true.
The 1611 KJV credits Paul as the author and Timothy as it's writer.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not true.
The 1611 KJV credits Paul as the author and Timothy as it's writer.
How is this no evidence?
That was not inspired scripture, that was their "educated guess"
37818
Well-Known Member
Your.opinion. It was, none the less, based on handed down evidence.
It isn't evidence because that is not Scripture. It is in the KJV because of the RCC (because of Augustine and Jerome). Paul was believed to be the writer from the 4th century until the 16th century (with a resurgence of Greek studies).
It is a reason some believe Paul is the writer, but it is not evidence.
37818
Well-Known Member
So. does this mean logical deductions are not allowed?
The Apostle Paul was first to cite "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts of the Apostles 13:33.
Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee, Hebrews 1:5.
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. Hebrews,5:5.
Being the sole citations in the NT Scripture of this resurrection prophecy.
37818
Well-Known Member
But not from when, . . . great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, . . . .
What I mean is that is not evidence. Paul did not invent Scripture. Paul didn't write Acts, but there Paul's words are recorded. How did Luke know Paul spoke those words? Did Luke stop and say "Paul....nobody knows what you said so write it here"?
The verse in Psalm is about Jesus. The writer of Hebrews could have been inspired by Paul's speech. Paul could have got it from the writer of Hebrews.
Or maybe the human writers were inspired by the same Spirit.
Opinions are allowed. But that is not evidence (especially since Hebrews appears in language and topic so different from Paul's known epistles).
Point is this does not point exclusively to Paul. In fact, had you not cut off the verse you'd see it points away from Paul (although Paul could be the writer via another).
"God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will"
Paul insisted that God testified to him, personally, with signs and miracles. The writer of Hebrews relies on God testifying to those who heard and relayed the gospel to them.