Whom I am chief.

Spurgeon;

Make way, make way; I stand at the head of you, I am the chief of sinners. give me the lowest place; let me take the lowest room." "No," cries another, "not you; I am a greater sinner than you." Then the apostle Paul comes, and says: "I challenge you all, Manasseh and Magdalene, I challenge you. I will have the lowest place. I was a blasphemer, a persecutor, and injurious, but I have obtained mercy, that in me first God might show his long-suffering." Now, if Christ has saved the greatest sinner that ever lived, oh, sinner, great as you may be, you cannot be greater than the greatest, and he is able to save you.



BBob

 

Spurgeon and I understand what Paul said. Also the preacher from Mt. Zion Baptist in PA.

This preacher of the Mt. Zion Baptist Church of PA. has it right:

Paul felt the exceeding sinfulness of his sin. He classifies himself as the chief or first or foremost of all sinners. When you stop to look at Paul prior to his conversion you don't see a drunk, or a fornicator. You see a religious man, with strict adherence to the law. Phil. 3:4-6 enumerates some of his character (as an unregenerate man) and frankly he would be called a "good man" according to the standards of his day. (see also Acts 26:4-5) Concerning his morals, he was a straight arrow. But the Lord Jesus Christ changed his life. After realizing what he had done to the Christians, he hangs his head and remembers the persecution, injury and destruction he placed upon men and women of the faith. He then calls himself "chief" of all the sinners in the world that Christ came to die for.




BBob,

 

I am sorry you don't look any deeper than the word "am".

The Greek word for the "am" is:

1510
eimi
eimi
i-mee'
the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):--am, have been, X it is I, was


Take your pick, I pick "have been" or "was".

BBob,

 

The Greek word for the "am" is:

1510
eimi
eimi
i-mee'
the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):--am, have been, X it is I, was


This preacher of the Mt. Zion Baptist Church of PA. has it right:

Paul felt the exceeding sinfulness of his sin. He classifies himself as the chief or first or foremost of all sinners. When you stop to look at Paul prior to his conversion you don't see a drunk, or a fornicator. You see a religious man, with strict adherence to the law. Phil. 3:4-6 enumerates some of his character (as an unregenerate man) and frankly he would be called a "good man" according to the standards of his day. (see also Acts 26:4-5) Concerning his morals, he was a straight arrow. But the Lord Jesus Christ changed his life. After realizing what he had done to the Christians, he hangs his head and remembers the persecution, injury and destruction he placed upon men and women of the faith. He then calls himself "chief" of all the sinners in the world that Christ came to die for.



Spurgeon;

Make way, make way; I stand at the head of you, I am the chief of sinners. give me the lowest place; let me take the lowest room." "No," cries another, "not you; I am a greater sinner than you." Then the apostle Paul comes, and says: "I challenge you all, Manasseh and Magdalene, I challenge you. I will have the lowest place. I was a blasphemer, a persecutor, and injurious, but I have obtained mercy, that in me first God might show his long-suffering." Now, if Christ has saved the greatest sinner that ever lived, oh, sinner, great as you may be, you cannot be greater than the greatest, and he is able to save you.



BBob

 

:laugh: :laugh: :tonofbricks:

 

Education hasn't went too far from Spurgeon's days, has it.

 

Yes, I recall and recently also, but I am not going to name them.

 

I also agreed with the part that we still sin, but not with the part who Paul was talking about.


"I"

1473
egw
ego
eg-o'
a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when emphatic):--






"am"
The Greek word for the "am" is:

1510
eimi
eimi
i-mee'
the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):--am, have been, X it is I, was

Two separate words in Strong's!!! I think Strong's is a much better translator than you are Ed, (no harm) for they have thousands of translators who work on their translation, you are just one person, trying to speak Greek. (no harm) IMO

BBob,

 

Allan;
I appreciate the comments but it seems that John Wesley, Spurgeon, D.L. Moody and others I have finished searching agrees with me, that Paul was referring to when he persecuted the church of God. That is also, what I believe.

I am not a Greek translator and do not pretend to be, but its strange that Strong's would use the different examples to explain the word "am" such as "have been".

So far, I have not found one of the early theologians who does not believe Paul was talking about before his salvation, to show that God could save anyone, regardless of how bad a sinner he is. That make much more sense to me than anything else.

I will keep searching to see if I find anyone of the early theologians who disagrees with me.

Maybe you can give me some theologian from the past who agrees that Paul is not talking about his past sins??

BBob,

 

I picked the first one I googled;

By Charles Woodruff
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief" (I Timothy 1:15).


Paul the apostle, whose conversion was a classic example, a pattern, as he said himself in verse 16; was shaken to the very core of his being, and changed from being Saul, a persecutor of the church, a hater of Christ, to the greatest advocate of the Christian faith. His pattern was remarkable, and is clear in the word of God, repeated several times in the book of Acts for all to see. Yet, I have heard preachers and teachers say "God doesn’t force anyone to be saved. He won’t violate their will". Well, it sure looks like to me that God used a bit of force to save Saul of Tarsus! There was a will involved all right, but primarily it was God’s. Read the account in Acts 9 for yourself, and you’ll see that Saul was "made willing" after being blinded, and knocked down to the earth and hearing a voice saying "Saul, Saul Why persecutest thou me?" (Acts 9:4). He then said "Who art thou Lord?" (Acts 9:5) When he heard "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" (Acts 9:5), Saul said "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?"(Acts 9: 5, 6).


Tim. 1:15

Wesley's Notes

1:15 This is a faithful saying - A most solemn preface. And worthy of all acceptation - Well deserving to be accepted, received, embraced, with all the faculties of our whole soul. That Christ - Promised. Jesus - Exhibited. Came into the world to save sinners - All sinners, without exception.


Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

1:12-17 The apostle knew that he would justly have perished, if the Lord had been extreme to mark what was amiss; and also if his grace and mercy had not been abundant to him when dead in sin, working faith and love to Christ in his heart. This is a faithful saying; these are true and faithful words, which may be depended on, That the Son of God came into the world, willingly and purposely to save sinners. No man, with Paul's example before him, can question the love and power of Christ to save him, if he really desires to trust in him as the Son of God, who once died on the cross, and now reigns upon the throne of glory, to save all that come to God through him. Let us then admire and praise the grace of God our Saviour; and ascribe to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three Persons in the unity of the Godhead, the glory of all done in, by, and for us.

I can not find anyone who agrees with you.

Paul was saying if he saved me, then he will save you.

 

used only when emphatic includes am, have been, X it is I, was




1 Tim. 15

I don't know why I didn't read the next verse, for it explains it all.

15: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16: Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Verse 16 plainly says what I been saying all along, that Paul was speaking of his salvation, that if Jesus saved him, he would save any sinner.

BBob,