Whom I am chief.

[EdSutton]

Catch on to what, this?


The question is not whether Paul is the chief of sinners or not, he clearly says he is, the question is when was he.

It is not a question of "when was he", at all! One has to stand the language on its ear, as well as deny the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who inspired Paul to write this, to say otherwise.

The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write this in the present tense, "...I am chief." I'll accept that. However, the Holy Spirit did not inspire Paul to write that he was currently practicing and committing more and worse sins than anyone. I'll accept that. The two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, here.

To use an analogy, although I realize all analogies break down, eventually.

I am a type II diabetic.
However, my AIC (a method of determining how my blood glucose level has been over a three month period) was, at my last test, at the level of 5.0. I have taken absolutely no medications for my diabetes for almost 9 mos, and little before that for the previous 3 mos. The doctor wants my level to be under 7 at all times, and preferably under 6.5, with the medication. (I do not, and have never taken any insulin, except when I was in the hospital receiving nutrition via feeding tubes and/or IVs two times after major surgeries.) My AIC has not ever been higher than 5.6, since that test has been peformed. And a 5 to 5.5 is considered fairly normal, and is comparable to about any average non-diabetic.

So my diabetes is considered pretty well under control, and I don't concern myself with it, excesively. But I am still a diabetic, and will remain so for the rest of my life, unless I were to receive a new pancreas, as mine is damaged, and can never become "not damaged".

Get it, now? I am a diabetic. Paul "am chief." That is not my opinion; that is Paul's, and that of the Holy Spirit. Why Paul?? I do not know. Not one specific clue, here. But I'll ask Paul and the Holy Spirit at the 'bema' and then I will know.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

It is not a question of "when was he", at all! One has to stand the language on its ear, as well as deny the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who inspired Paul to write this, to say otherwise.

The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write this in the present tense, "...I am chief." I'll accept that. However, the Holy Spirit did not inspire Paul to write that he was currently practicing and committing more and worse sins than anyone. I'll accept that. The two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive, here.

To use an analogy, although I realize all analogies break down, eventually.

I am a type II diabetic.
However, my AIC (a method of determining how my blood glucose level has been over a three month period) was, at my last test, at the level of 5.0. I have taken absolutely no medications for my diabetes for almost 9 mos, and little before that for the previous 3 mos. The doctor wants my level to be under 7 at all times, and preferably under 6.5, with the medication. (I do not, and have never taken any insulin, except when I was in the hospital receiving nutrition via feeding tubes and/or IVs two times after major surgeries.) My AIC has not ever been higher than 5.6, since that test has been peformed. And a 5 to 5.5 is considered fairly normal, and is comparable to about any average non-diabetic.

So my diabetes is considered pretty well under control, and I don't concern myself with it, excesively. But I am still a diabetic, and will remain so for the rest of my life, unless I were to receive a new pancreas, as mine is damaged, and can never become "not damaged".

Get it, now? I am a diabetic. Paul "am chief." That is not my opinion; that is Paul's, and that of the Holy Spirit. Why Paul?? I do not know. Not one specific clue, here. But I'll ask Paul and the Holy Spirit at the 'bema' and then I will know.

Ed

You need to "get it". Paul was talking about his salvation. That is what the whole passage is about and to turn it into what kind of sinner Paul was in present tense is to completely leave the "context" of the passage.

I can understand why some want to do so, but it is not right and never will be.


BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

Seems to me Ed enjoys a "putdown" unless it is him on the recieving end. Maybe Ed does not know that is what draws the negative comments his way.

BBob,

What do you mean?? I loved what standingfirminChrist said about me, there, with the kewpie doll bit and the ding-ding-ding. I thought it was hilarious!

And I don't mind humorous put-downs directed at me, at all, and in fact, have even submitted a few on myself, including one last evening, if you recall. But I do get annoyed at 'vicious' ones directed by a poster to other another poster than myself, and occasionally will call such a one to task over this.

I only once, in two years, recall actually overtly lambasting an individual, and that was over outright 'racial hatred' and lies put forth. He lasted on the BB for a total of fewer than ten posts, FTR.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

What do you mean?? I loved what standingfirminChrist said about me, there, with the kewpie doll bit and the ding-ding-ding. I thought it was hilarious!

And I don't mind humorous put-downs directed at me, at all, and in fact, have even submitted a few on myself, including one last evening, if you recall. But I do get annoyed at 'vicious' ones directed by a poster to other another poster than myself, and occasionally will call such a one to task over this.

I only once, in two years, recall actually overtly lambasting an individual, and that was over outright 'racial hatred' and lies put forth. He lasted on the BB for a total of fewer than ten posts, FTR.

Ed

Originally Posted by standingfirminChrist
Your daughter is still in High School at 44? Wow! that in itself is a record, Bob. You must be awfully proud of her.

Ed

Don't play the innoncent 3rd grader.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

Originally Posted by standingfirminChrist
Your daughter is still in High School at 44? Wow! that in itself is a record, Bob. You must be awfully proud of her.

[Smilie snipped]

Ed

Don't play the innoncent 3rd grader.

BBob,

I thought the post of standingfirminChrist was an absolute scream. I meant no offense by it, in any way.

In fact, I suspect I easily post more laugh smilies than at least 95% of Baptist Board members, at the posts and other foibles and follies I see here. Sorry, if that may offend anyone, but I guess that is just my warped sense of humor coming through.

Oh yeah, I did finally manage to make it all the way to the 6th grade, even if it did take a while. :thumbsup:


Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I thought the post of standingfirminChrist was an absolute scream. I meant no offense by it, in any way.

In fact, I suspect I easily post more laugh smilies than at least 95% of Baptist Board members, at the posts and other foibles and follies I see here. Sorry, if that may offend anyone, but I guess that is just my warped sense of humor coming through.

Oh yeah, I did finally manage to make it all the way to the 6th grade, even if it did take a while. :thumbsup:


Ed

What is an absolute screem of someone 44 years old graduating from high school in her school years. You have an odd sense of humor.

I give you another laugh, I graduated in 1957, have a hoot, but don't strain your gut. I thought Mr. Ed was a pretty good one, especially the horse using the bathroom, myself, it was just a smiley as you say you use, but I promised not to call you that anymore. I am just stating it now, not calling you that. Maybe I could just state it in the future, instead of calling you that.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

What is an absolute screem of someone 44 years old graduating from high school in her school years. You have an odd sense of humor.

I give you another laugh, I graduated in 1957, have a hoot, but don't strain your gut. I thought Mr. Ed was a pretty good one, especially the horse using the bathroom, myself, it was just a smiley as you say you use, but I promised not to call you that anymore. I am just stating it now, not calling you that. Maybe I could just state it in the future, instead of calling you that.

BBob,

I take no personal offense from you, to either the Horse smilie or the name, as I said. FTR, a couple of individuals, in my own church, refer to me as Mr. Ed. I assure you that unless they have access to some real old TV shows, neither has been around anywhere near long enough to have even heard of the TV show. And in fact, I snickered at the 'horse kicking' smilie, when I first saw it.

But the 'scream' was not at the fact that one may have graduated a bit later in life than you or I may have, at all. (I graduated HS at 17. However, had I been born 20 years later, and as my parents would probably not have sent me to kindergarden, before I turned 5, it would probably have been at least 18, if not 19, due to some changes in Education procedure, and the date of my birth. One was not 'required' to attend KG, either, in those days, so I actually started 1st grade a couple of weeks before I turned 6.)

I have personally known one who graduated in their 40s; another one who was in their 30; and, I have no idea exactly how many, but several who acquired a G.E.D. beyond the age of 30, including one or two who were, I believe, above 50. And I would have, and did even help tutor one, a little, who working on a GED, just as I helped tutor my own nieces and nephew some, through their middle teens, until they got out of HS. I could not help them beyond that point, very much, due to my own lack of knowledge in their fields, and the incompatibility with my own. Bible, and Agriculture when compared with Finance, Music, Electrician, Nursing, Computers and Family Therapy are not exactly built one on another, so the first two, my areas of instruction, did not relate particularly well to the latter six. (My nephew is the Electrician, of the crowd; One niece has studied both nursing and computers.)

The funny part was in how the post was worded by standingfirminChrist. And that is why I laughed.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I take no personal offense from you, to either the Horse smilie or the name, as I said. FTR, a couple of individuals, in my own church, refer to me as Mr. Ed. I assure you that unless they have access to some real old TV shows, neither has been around anywhere near long enough to have even heard of the TV show. And in fact, I snickered at the 'horse kicking' smilie, when I first saw it.

But the 'scream' was not at the fact that one may have graduated a bit later in life than you or I may have, at all. (I graduated HS at 17. However, had I been born 20 years later, and as my parents would probably not have sent me to kindergarden, before I turned 5, it would probably have been at least 18, if not 19, due to some changes in Education procedure, and the date of my birth. One was not 'required' to attend KG, either, in those days, so I actually started 1st grade a couple of weeks before I turned 6.)

I have personally known one who graduated in their 40s; another one who was in their 30; and, I have no idea exactly how many, but several who acquired a G.E.D. beyond the age of 30, including one or two who were, I believe, above 50. And I would have, and did even help tutor one, a little, who working on a GED, just as I helped tutor my own nieces and nephew some, through their middle teens, until they got out of HS. I could not help them beyond that point, very much, due to my own lack of knowledge in their fields, and the incompatibility with my own. Bible, and Agriculture when compared with Finance, Music, Electrician, Nursing, Computers and Family Therapy are not exactly built one on another, so the first two, my areas of instruction, did not relate particularly well to the latter six. (My nephew is the Electrician, of the crowd; One niece has studied both nursing and computers.)

The funny part was in how the post was worded by standingfirminChrist. And that is why I laughed.

Ed

It was not meant to be funny from SFic, the way I took it, but this has gone far enough. I will address you by your login name as I said. I must be totally honest with you, when I feel someone makes a "putdown" or tries to "belittle" me, I light up real quick. It is one of my faults and had been all my life. My daughter has more college hours than you and I put together I surmise, but could be wrong. I did not take it as funny but should of let it go. I respect and like you Ed Sutton and hope it continues that way. I usually respond in every which way I have been spoken to. I wish I was one of the real humble people that let every thing slide, but I am not. When I take offense, I respond and then have to pray over it. As I said, this is enough on this and I intend to drop it from here.

BBob, :thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

The problem with relying on the teaching of those who were once the leaders of the church is that they are not 100% infallible. They have made errors, and no man should trust in the teachings and doctrines of one man or many men.

Spurgeon is a great man, but, he was subject to error like all of us. I read and study these great men, but, I also realize that they make mistakes. ONLY God is infallible, thus, I will allow His word to lead me. As for the interpretation of the Chief of sinners, I'd have to say that Paul was showing to his followers that he, at one time was the most hideous of sinners that ever lived, and if God could save him, well, He can save any one of us, and forgive any sin known to man.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul

Your response not only is how I understand the passage, but also Spurgeon. It does one other thing, it give me some insight into how you think and decipher a passage for understanding of the scripture to find the right context. I admire that. God Bless,

BBob,

 

[righteousdude2]

Well, thanks BroBob

Your response not only is how I understand the passage, but also Spurgeon. It does one other thing, it give me some insight into how you think and decipher a passage for understanding of the scripture to find the right context. I admire that. God Bless,

BBob,

I appreciate your confidence in my ability to view and interpret scripture. Maybe I'm not as hopeless as some once thought?

The Lord has gifted me in the area of the prophetic, and that is a wonderful gift, but it carries a heavy responsibility. The books that God have sent my way to write, are from the prophetic within me. I fought against being so candid in my book [Prodigal Daze], but, I obeyed, and the book is changing the hearts of men and women caught up in sexual sin.

I will be forever grateful that God not only saved me:godisgood: , but, He used my sexual sin (meant for bad) for His overall good:jesus: .

Pastor Paul