Whom would you allow to preach...

In order to share God's pulipit,
the visitor would need to be a Biblical preacher;
an evangeslist, or church starter;
Baptistic - or very respectful of Baptistic theology;
able to answer my querstions ahead of time;
able to give me an overview of the sermon ahead of time;
supports missions;

and is living a godly life.

 

I will try to find time, I promise, to listen to both links, Allan.
However, let me give you the way I, as a Primitive Baptist, understand eternal salvation and the gospel in relation to this salvation.

Let me quote snippets from one of your posts in reply to Reformed Believer

The Lost.

Jesus said: "The Son of Man came to find and seek that which was lost(Matthew 18:11)". Now, others will argue about context and say this verse was speaking of literal little children, but that is another discussion, because surely Zacchaeus was not a little child (Luke 19:10) unless of course, the Savior is jesting about the guy's height.

I am right now pointing to God's will. If it is God's will that all men be saved, then "the lost" are all mankind. Not just the lost in the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6;15:24), and certainly, not just small people like Zacchaeus.

Now, back to God's will.

Many times the Scripture, and God Himself, has pounded upon its readers the fact that nothing, but absolutely nothing, and no one, not Satan, not circumstances, not the collapse of worlds, not Star Wars, can thwart His will. It will be done. It will come to pass. It will happen.

You know what these Scriptures are. You know where they are, and you know where to find them.

So, if God's will cannot be thwarted and He Himself declared so, and it is His will that mankind be saved, and the only way for mankind to be saved is through the shed blood of the Lamb of Glory, then surely that was accomplished at the cross ? If that was accomplished at the cross, then there are no more lost souls after the cross.

So, now, tell us, or tell me, is salvation a finished act ? Is it a finished and established fact ? Did God through Christ alone accomplish that salvation ?

If the answer to all of the above is "yes", and mankind is no longer a "lost soul", then why should we preach as if they were ? If despite the attestations of God and the Scripture as to the unbreakability and inviolability of His will and purpose, mankind is still lost, then it follows God's will is not at all powerful, and if it is not, then He lied, and if He lied, then what is my guarantee of His mercy even if I do come to Him begging for such ? Are you going to point me to His word again ?

You see, everything comes together, or falls apart, on Jesus: that is why Paul referred to Him as a stumblingblock to the Jew and foolishness to the Greek (1 Cor. 1:23).

He came to do His Father's will and the will of the Father is that none perish of all that He has given to Christ (John 6:39). If the Father gave Christ all of mankind, then Christ possesses and redeemed all of mankind, and He lost none before, during, and after the cross.

If the Father did not give Christ all of mankind, but, rather, only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, then only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life belong to Christ, and they and they only were redeemed according to the mind, purpose, will and act of God, in Christ, and if God's will is inviolable then none of them are lost anymore.

 

To continue:

If you agree to either one of what I said, Allan, that all of mankind are saved, or not all but a portion of mankind are saved, not will be saved, or should be saved, but, saved, then, it follows the preaching of the gospel is not an instrument for eternal salvation, but, as Paul told Timothy, one that "brings life and immortality to light".

It follows that repentance is not a pre-requisite to eternal salvation, because if all mankind are saved, or part of mankind is saved, and God in Christ alone secured their salvation, and salvation is a finished act and fact after the cross, then this salvation was secured without the requirement of repentance because obviously not all, whether all mankind or part of mankind, repented before, during, and after the cross.

Repentance then is proof of sonship, not a prerequisite for salvation. It can be nothing but proof of regeneration, not cause of regeneration, because if repentance is a pre-requisite to regeneration, then there can no one be benefited by God's grace but those who were present at the cross, or in the vicinity of the cross, or only those parts of the Middle East as mentioned in the Bible, and this will exclude the rest of the world, and if it excludes the rest of the world, then not all of mankind are saved, but only part of mankind, and this salvation of part of mankind did not even begin until Israel appeared on the map, or maybe Job ?

If so, then God is caught in a lie again, when He causes John to write:

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands (Rev. 7:9)".

All can not be all, if part is missing, right ? a 360-degree circle is not a 360 degree circle if it is only 359.99 degrees, is it ? Therefore, for all nations and kindred and tongues to be what they are, God had to have people in China, Japan, the islands and islets, north, south, west, east, and all directions of the Middle East, from the beginning of the world.

Now if we "let God be true, and every man a liar", then who are we to believe. Christ's declaration that "it is finished" at the cross, or your declaration that we need to preach the gospel to the "lost".

So, what am I saying ?

That, as a Primitive Baptist, (let the Calvinists speak for themselves), I believe, and preach, after much study of the Scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not some Bible college dean or professor:

1. That God is a Sovereign, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Merciful, Gracious God whose will was spoken in eternity past, and is done in Heaven, On earth, and under the Earth;

2. That in His wisdom, grace, and mercy He foresaw the fall of man and planned and successfully executed their salvation;

3. That in accordance with this will, He wrote the names of His people in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world, not during, not after, but before;

4. That He called these souls whose names He wrote in the Lamb's Book "my people" and "my sheep". Please note that Jesus always referred to them as His sheep, electing them unto salvation, in Christ, before the foundation of the world.

5. That God Himself, in Christ, redeemed these souls, in this plane we call time, although the blood of the Lamb was shed from eternity past;

6. Therefore the blood of the Lamb is efficacious only for these elect, and shed only for them;

7. That after the cross there are no more "lost souls" in the sense of being hellbound. All have been redeemed, even those who are yet to be born;

8. That, after the cross, it is the Holy Spirit, not the gospel, or the preacher, that regenerates, or quickens, His elect children, wherever they are, whoever they are. He is never dependent on the obedient preacher, the sacrificing preacher, or the eloquent preacher to bring the "message of salvation" to His people.

9. That He still calls people to preach the gospel, but, again, the eternal salvation of His people was never dependent on the gospel from the beginning, therefore, the God-called preacher is identified by the gospel he carries, which is why many Primitive Baptists will not readily favor today's missions.

10. That the gospel does not result in eternal salvation, but in timely salvation. It brings life and immortality, already possessed by the child of God, to light. It gives instructions on how to live in this fallen world, how to glorify God in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, but it never results in eternal salvation. That is God's prerogative alone.

 

Allan, there have been a many good men who had a thought such as you had on this post. Their meaning and heart was in the right place and it usually was in the local paper with several Pastors of different denominations taking part according to the picture that would show up in the paper. Usually after the recoginition in the paper it was the end of it. It sounds really good if we could all come together but in order to do that we must be of one mind and one accord, of which as you see on this board, we are not. Let me say, my picture has never been among them.
What you are posting to see the results will only take place when we get to heaven. We get kinda rough on here from time to time but in reality we would treat each other with respect, but go to our own churches.

I think I can see the goodness of your heart that you would like to see us all come as one, but it is just not to be. How can we walk together unless we agree.

I knew the answers you would get is why I started my first post as I did and do not fault no one for speaking their belief, for if they didn't stand on what they believe then they would be like a wayward ship. I will stand when the world is on fire. Bless,

 

Wow! I've been wondering what I am.......lol. I just very well may be a Primitive Baptist.

Thank you Pinoy. I'm going to have to study further on Primitive Baptist.

 

You can look at it that way, saved before born, if you like.
But, actually, it relates more to the fact that a person chosen in Christ can not perish because that person's salvation is in the heart, purpose, and mind of God.
All human beings who are born here in time, including the elect, are born at enmity with God because of their fallen nature (Romans 8:7). In Christ that enmity has been abolished. The child of God is hid in Christ, justified in Christ, and accepted in Christ.
The elect child of God will without fail receive quickening from the Holy Spirit Himself in due time.
This is one of the reasons why I do not believe in condemning anyone to hell because of his life, his theology, his doctrine, or whatever we see or know about him, because I believe that the Holy Spirit, God, is able to quicken his child even at the last nanosecond before death. If not, then there is after all an impossible thing for God to do.
That is also how I am able to fellowship with others who name the Name of Christ, by not judging their salvation.
Remember that regeneration is spiritual, it is nothing we can see with our physical eyes.
In life, the proof of one's regeneration may be one's conduct, but even conduct is not absolute proof.
Also, it is not as easy as you made it sound, no offense.
It's not like one realizes God has saved him and then says, "wow, I'm floored, like, ok, I'm walkin' with God from hereon".
I believe the child of God within hearing of the gospel and already quickened by the Spirit experiences guilt and shame and remorse in a way that the unregenerate can not even imagine.
There's a difference between ungodly repentance, and Godly repentance.

Also I would like to clarify I do not speak for all Primitive Baptists because like all Baptists we are a diverse group made up of different persuasions.

There are PB's who are absoluters, there are PB's who are Arminians (would you believe that ?), and there are PB's who have gone into modern missionism.

 

Read Spurgeon's sermons. You'll find tons of the same sort of "repent and believe" or "trust in Jesus" salvation messages. What you won't find in Spurgeon's messages (but will find in the messages of many preachers today) is the message that God is offering salvation, but it's up to you to reach out and take it of your own free will.

In other words, just because Moody preached salvation doesn't mean He said it hinges upon man's free will. That's what I'd like to know - did He preach that or not?

 

Amen brother! I was in that class on Ephesians, with about 15 other preachers, and when the Holy Spirit revealed the truth to me, I could not hold the tears back. I was embarrassed, but the tears still flowed. I just could not help the sorrow of the realization that Jesus died for me while I was still so full of self, and a total enemy of Him.

Oh yeah He was drawing me... and I resisted... but when I was born again of His Holy Spirit, I was a new creation. That is one experience that caused me to be.... well a new creation! I felt like Isaiah, or Peter, or Job..... my sin became scarlet, and His holiness was so bright... it was beyond anything I could approach. Grace and peace became words that were alive.

 

At what point does the "quickening" happen? Before you're born? How is this total depravity, or rather being born "dead"?

 

I'll give my answer to that. This quickening happens in time. We are not born again until the Holy Spirit causes us to be born again.

" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, "

Not speaking for Pinoy... but I believe we are justified when the Holy Spirit quickens our dead spirit, gives a new nature, we respond and have faith.

Pinoy may be speaking of eternal justification, and I too am interested in his view on justification.

 

Calv or non-calv

I cannot believe all the division in the Baptist church, I am an ex-Catholic and we never had differences in my old church like these. Since I am a new christian and go to a SBC all I know is that we all believe or should in Jesus Christ, and he comes before all else. We should not argue between calvinist or non, pre-destination or non-pre. Let's all just worship God and live in peace. hen you bring politics into church is when division occurs. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

'preciate your 2 cents', hawg.
But I don't think there is a division, per se, going on here.
We have simply defined the lines, and agreed to disagree, as well as learn from each other.
Kinda like missionaries entering the Amazon jungle, and tactfully suggesting to the natives where they may not enter and where they may, and learning the other's language and customs to better understand why the natives think every living thing around their hooch is theirs for the taking.:thumbs:
Each side has the liberty to think his is the missionary side, and the other, the native's.