KenH
Well-Known Member
We have human speculations.
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Who's Strongest? God Or The Devil?
- Thread starter kyredneck
- Start date
We have human speculations.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Since we don't know, one can also assume the worst.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Well, since David indicated he would “go” to his newborn that died and Jesus, speaking about children said “such are the kingdom of God”, there is more than “speculation”, though not overwhelming evidence all children that die go to heaven.
But, back to the OP, it seems optimism that there will be more believers in heaven than non-believers in hell can’t harm anything
peace to you
All I can say is that IF Satan should turn out to be stronger than God, then I'm in a big heap of buffalo scat, along with multitudes of others!!
Why?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Two reasons…
Based on David’s statement when learning his infant son had died. David had been in fervent prayer for his son’s life for many days. His servants were afraid to tell him the child had died, fearing he would harm himself. Instead, David cleaned himself up and prepared to worship God. When asked why David responded that while the child lived he prayed God would spare his life. But since he had died he (the child) couldn’t come to him (David), but that David would go to him.
Since David found great comfort in that thought, many believe this indicates David expected to see his son again when he died in heaven.
The second reason is Jesus’s statement concerning children coming to Him because “such are the kingdom of Heaven”. Jesus could have been literally saying the Kingdom of Heaven is full of children, rather than referring (as is commonly thought) to “child like faith”.
There are no other references in scripture that I know of that directly addresses the fate of children that die.
It is enough for me.
peace to you
Great topic, but misguided answer!
Falseology says God blinded the minds of the lost, imposing Total Spiritual Inability, as a consequence of the Fall. However scripture says the god of this world (Satan) has blinded "the unbelieving" leaving to interpretation with all or some of the unbelievers have been blinded.
All humanity starts out as vessels of wrath, see Ephesians 2:3, but God causes some of His choosing to be made into vessels of mercy. We would not have ever been "children of wrath" if we have already obtained the mercy of being chosen for salvation. Peter tells us we all start out as not a people chosen for God's own possession, thus we are vessels of wrath from conception.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." ( Matthew 7:13-14 ).
Relatively few will be found to be in the grace of God, compared to all of mankind.
" Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 for he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha." ( Romans 9:27-29 ).
Illustrated above, for example, with Israel.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Another example of what Scripture says regarding those who are saved:
"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." ( Galatians 4:21-31).
Believers are the children of the promise...we are the ones born after the Spirit.
But notice what Paul tells us in verse 27...
There are many more unbelievers than there are believers, and this is exemplified in the world at large even today.
No, I do not believe what Spurgeon said about this, as God's word tells me otherwise.
Nevertheless, God is far mightier than His creation, even knowing that His will is to take out of the nations a people for His namesake....a remnant, or "seed" to show His grace and mercy to;
A multitude that no man can number.
"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." ( Galatians 4:21-31).
Believers are the children of the promise...we are the ones born after the Spirit.
But notice what Paul tells us in verse 27...
There are many more unbelievers than there are believers, and this is exemplified in the world at large even today.
No, I do not believe what Spurgeon said about this, as God's word tells me otherwise.
Nevertheless, God is far mightier than His creation, even knowing that His will is to take out of the nations a people for His namesake....a remnant, or "seed" to show His grace and mercy to;
A multitude that no man can number.
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Relax, I was extrapolating from KenH's conjecture here:
Its a no brainer God, its not even a contest... Brother Glen
Matthew 8: 29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
Matthew 8: 29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: Rev 18
Is it possible for the righteous to perish (temporally, not eternally) in the temporal punishments of the wicked?
Was it the case here?:
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons-in-law, who married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for Jehovah will destroy the city. But he seemed unto his sons-in-law as one that mocked.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. Gen 19
Here?:
51 and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 24
Here?:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10
I believe so.
KenH
Well-Known Member
"there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; but the true sense of the whole is this, that after men have embraced and professed the truths of the Gospel, and particularly this great truth of it, that Jesus Christ is the only Saviour of men by his blood and sacrifice; and yet after this, against all evidence, all the light and convictions of their own consciences, they wilfully deny this truth, and obstinately persist in the denial of it; seeing there is no more, no other sacrifice for sin, no other Saviour, nor any salvation in any other way, the case of these men must be desperate; there is no help for them, nor hope of them; for by this their sin they shut up against themselves, in principle and practice, the way of salvation, as follows.
10.27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment,.... Either of some outward visible judgment in this life, which sometimes falls on such persons; or of the particular judgment which immediately follows after death; or of the universal judgment, after the resurrection, and the dreadful sentence of condemnation which will then pass, and be immediately executed; and which will be done by Christ, and according to truth, and in strict justice; it is certain, and there will be no escaping it, for it will be general. Now there is in this life an expectation in men of a future judgment, and in wicked men it is a fearful one; it is dreaded by them, and more especially in such men before described, when their consciences are awakened; it is a very dreadful one, inexpressibly so."
- from John Gill's Bible commentary on Hebrews 10:26-27
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
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30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10