Who's to say that one is not a Baptist?

[humblethinker]

We, the BaptistBoard, were recently visited by someone famous (a best selling author). Apparently he is not a Baptist though he put forward what seemed to be Baptist-like credentials (yet, i don't think he claimed to be a Baptist). A moderator instructed that as a non-Baptist he should not post in the Baptist only part of the forum and the thread was closed. Regardless of whether he is or not, it is not the reason for this thread. My question is what makes someone not a Baptist? What if they claim to be a Baptist? What would it take for us to deny that they were actually Baptist?

 

[annsni]

It is usually the poster themselves. They do not identify themselves as Baptist on their profile - and thus they cannot post in the Baptist-only portions of the site.

 

[humblethinker]

It is usually the poster themselves. They do not identify themselves as Baptist on their profile - and thus they cannot post in the Baptist-only portions of the site.

I guess they 'can' technically post but what you state above is the 'policy' of the board, for which I have no problem.

I think the bigger question was not so much about this board but about baptist identity and fellowship in general. It almost seems like what makes one a baptist is whether they self identify as such. If someone held traditional Baptistic beliefs but self identified as "nondenominational" then would they not be baptist after all? Take, for instance, a local Bible church. Their members would be accepted into the local Baptist church without having to be re-baptized. Would that same Bible Church member not be allowed to post here on this board unless he identified himself as 'baptist'?

 

[Benjamin]

I can certainly understand why you’ve raised this point. The action was obviously done in bias and motivated by more than a common enforcement of strict rules evident by considering the existing membership here and others who have their books presented in every post by means of their signature or avatar. He didn’t even start the thread and wasn’t sounding as a salesman and yet it was closed, basically telling him he was not welcome here. I thought the action abrupt and rude; it embarrassed me as a regular member of this board, and once again has me questioning whether the environment I place myself in here is really healthy for a person who considers himself a part of the Christian body first and a Baptist second, especially when the “authorities” that be which I place myself under demonstrate such behavior.

 

[humblethinker]

I can certainly understand why you’ve raised this point. The action was obviously done in bias and motivated by more than a common enforcement of strict rules evident by considering the existing membership here and others who have their books presented in every post by means of their signature or avatar. He didn’t even start the thread and wasn’t sounding as a salesman and yet it was closed, basically telling him he was not welcome here. I thought the action abrupt and rude; it embarrassed me as a regular member of this board, and once again has me questioning whether the environment I place myself in here is really healthy for a person who considers himself a part of the Christian body first and a Baptist second, especially when the “authorities” that be which I place myself under demonstrate such behavior.

I empathize with your statements. I would not call it fascist, but there seems to be something similar about it... But, I digress, I recognize that administering this Board is a necessary effort if it is to be a place of usefulness. Is that a proper litmus test... maybe it is for administering a discussion board. I want to grant latitude to the mods (since someone's gotta do it) so I try not to take too much offense or embarrassment and I hope the non-baptist contributor feels the same.

But Benjamin, I mainly created this thread to address the baptists' view of religion. It seems that what goes on here on the board is just reflective of the real off-line world. What do you think of that thought? It seems that in the off-line world of relationships we are too quick to dismiss if they don't self identify as a 'Baptist'. Is this a new 'shibboleth' for us moderns... "Rules are much easier than relationships so just tell me you're a Baptist so I don't have to dismiss you."

 

[Bronconagurski]

I am sympathetic to your statements. I would not call it this, but there seems to be something similar about it... But, I digress, I recognize that administering this Board is a necessary effort if it is to be a place of usefulness. Is that a proper litmus test... maybe for this board it is. I want to grant much latitude to the mods (since someone's gotta do it) so I try not to take too much offense or embarrassment and I hope the non-baptist contributor feels the same.

But Benjamin, I mainly created this thread to address the baptists' view of religion. It seems that what goes on here on the board is just reflective of the real off-line world. What do you think of that thought? It seems that in the off-line world of relationships we are too quick to dismiss if they don't self identify as a 'Baptist'. Is this a new 'shibboleth' for us moderns... "Rules are much easier than relationships so just tell me you're a Baptist so I don't have to dismiss you."

Maybe the moderator was a little over zeaolous and could have sent a private message, but I have been on some sites that aren't moderated like they should be and all kinds of shennanigans goes on. Give the admin a break, at least they care about rules.

 

[humblethinker]

Maybe the moderator was a little over zeaolous and could have sent a private message, but I have been on some sites that aren't moderated like they should be and all kinds of shennanigans goes on. Give the admin a break, at least they care about rules.

:thumbs: I agree... looks like I didn't edit my quote quick enough... I agree with you and I do feel that I gave the mod a break.

 

[Skandelon]

I'm curious as to who this best selling author was?

 

[Bronconagurski]

I'm curious as to who this best selling author was?

Lee Strobel, who wrote books like "The Case for Christ", Christian apologetics.

 

[Bronconagurski]

:thumbs: I agree... looks like I didn't edit my quote quick enough... I agree with you and I do feel that I gave the mod a break.

Oh ok, sorry bout that. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Skandelon]

Lee Strobel, who wrote books like "The Case for Christ", Christian apologetics.

Ok, just found that thread... interesting...

 

[Benjamin]

But Benjamin, I mainly created this thread to address the baptists' view of religion. It seems that what goes on here on the board is just reflective of the real off-line world. What do you think of that thought?

I don’t consider this format very “real world” in many of its circumstances, especially to the degree that hiding behind a keyboard presents for unanimous opportunity and dodging common responsibility for actions. Many times I have thought this environment to be unhealthy in many ways; one becomes what he practices and it is easy to let constantly having to deal with nonsense here to overflow against the patience one has with others in the “real world”. I have been very embarrassed in the past and ashamed to be part of a membership that especially in the way it treats an obvious seeking new believer has come on, who is called a troll and all sorts of accusations thrown because he or she simply has the incorrect, uneducated idea about something. Any path to correction and enlightenment is destroyed because of the “walls of separation”, which are often elitist, personally biased, and allow for the privilege of authority that be here that does not exist in the real world, or pertain to the behavior of general Baptist if in person, or would even be respected in person because their a=imaginative power would be removed. All this allows for much abuse in the building of those walls that are built here in cyber-world, far from what would commonly be tolerated as acceptible behavior in person in the real world I can assure you. I can only hope people who come here for a visit don’t think this is attitude is representative of all Baptist and they are all the same outside this format.

 

[Iconoclast]

I can certainly understand why you’ve raised this point. The action was obviously done in bias and motivated by more than a common enforcement of strict rules evident by considering the existing membership here and others who have their books presented in every post by means of their signature or avatar. He didn’t even start the thread and wasn’t sounding as a salesman and yet it was closed, basically telling him he was not welcome here. I thought the action abrupt and rude; it embarrassed me as a regular member of this board, and once again has me questioning whether the environment I place myself in here is really healthy for a person who considers himself a part of the Christian body first and a Baptist second, especially when the “authorities” that be which I place myself under demonstrate such behavior.

:thumbs::applause: I agree....I do not agree with everything Lee Strobel might believe, but I respect his strong stand and he has helped many.
Perhaps it could have been moved to the Other denominations thread, so we could interact with Mr.Stobel to our profit. He was sort of run out of town, in a bizarre fashion.

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you guys actually believe it was Lee Strobel?

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you guys actually believe it was Lee Strobel?

Why not???? I have heard him on the radio and he sounds like a regular guy.
The imput that was offered seemed to be on the money,and he seemed gracious.

Also.....what kind of Loser would make believe they were someone else on a professed christian board. They would have to have quite an empty life to not let their yes be yes, and their no...no.

They ran him off like he had the ebola virus. he could have been moved to the other christian denominations board.

I know several pastors/authors who participate on message boards as they seek to win the lost in any way they can.:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Well, I was ordained at an inter-denominational church (Willow Creek) but later was a teaching pastor at a Southern Baptist church (Saddleback), so I guess I'm a quasi-Baptist. I certainly have no reservations about Baptist faith and practice (including, of course, believer's baptism).[/QUOTE]

That is what makes you a "Baptist". The "term" Baptist carries with it just about the same basis in authority as the term "Yankee". If you agree with what are understood to be the basic Baptist Distinctives, then you are for all intents and purposes, a baptist. It makes sense to prefer, or even require one to proclaim themselves to in fact BE a baptist, but it is often a matter of what name your church puts on it's sign outside and nothing more. I honestly wish it weren't that way, but it is. We have by our nature, as one of our distinctives a belief in free and autonomous churches. If you are a member of a Church which believes and practices those, then you are essentially a "Baptist"....whether you know it or not, and whether you Want to be called a "Baptist" or not.

The reality of Baptist polity is that we have no control over who uses that word or not. What would happen if the freak-shows at Westoboro "Baptist" Church began calling themselves Westboro "Lutheran"? The denominational authority would immediately demand that they remove that distinction, and an iron-clad law-suit (probably from a pre-made, tried and true form) would be handed to them in about 35 seconds; a law-suit they would win too. But we as Baptists are helpless to do anything about it.

It is unfortunate what happened on that thread. I do not suggest that the Mods should not have addressed it, but quite frankly....it was IMO, rather rude and abrupt. There have been "Baptists" around the world since the time of Christ, they have only regularly been called "Baptists" for a few centuries. But their essential identitly is always the same. I suppose the rule should state that one has to "self-identify" as a Baptist in order to post. If it does, then he wouldn't have been allowed to post in that section. Just remember, Fred Phelps self-identifies as one too. So we are in the precarious position of firing Strobel, and being forced to admit F.P.

A rather better rule should be to establish what are understood to be the Baptist Distinctives, and then require that all posters on the "Baptist Only" forums adhere to them, as a rule of Faith. Strobel does apparently. They are somewhat not even entirely agreed upon by ALL BAPTISTS!!! I find this general source to be one good basic form of those distinctives:
http://allaboutbaptists.com/distinctives.html

IMO....if Strobel has no arguments with those....(and his preferred diet for a pot-luck is fried chicken of course :tongue3, then he is a Baptist.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

That is what makes you a "Baptist". The "term" Baptist carries with it just about the same basis in authority as the term "Yankee". If you agree with what are understood to be the basic Baptist Distinctives, then you are for all intents and purposes, a baptist. It makes sense to prefer, or even require one to proclaim themselves to in fact BE a baptist, but it is often a matter of what name your church puts on it's sign outside and nothing more. I honestly wish it weren't that way, but it is. We have by our nature, as one of our distinctives a belief in free and autonomous churches. If you are a member of a Church which believes and practices those, then you are essentially a "Baptist"....whether you know it or not, and whether you Want to be called a "Baptist" or not.

The reality of Baptist polity is that we have no control over who uses that word or not. What would happen if the freak-shows at Westoboro "Baptist" Church began calling themselves Westboro "Lutheran"? The denominational authority would immediately demand that they remove that distinction, and an iron-clad law-suit (probably from a pre-made, tried and true form) would be handed to them in about 35 seconds; a law-suit they would win too. But we as Baptists are helpless to do anything about it.

It is unfortunate what happened on that thread. I do not suggest that the Mods should not have addressed it, but quite frankly....it was IMO, rather rude and abrupt. There have been "Baptists" around the world since the time of Christ, they have only regularly been called "Baptists" for a few centuries. But their essential identitly is always the same. I suppose the rule should state that one has to "self-identify" as a Baptist in order to post. If it does, then he wouldn't have been allowed to post in that section. Just remember, Fred Phelps self-identifies as one too. So we are in the precarious position of firing Strobel, and being forced to admit F.P.

A rather better rule should be to establish what are understood to be the Baptist Distinctives, and then require that all posters on the "Baptist Only" forums adhere to them, as a rule of Faith. Strobel does apparently. They are somewhat not even entirely agreed upon by ALL BAPTISTS!!! I find this general source to be one good basic form of those distinctives:
http://allaboutbaptists.com/distinctives.html

IMO....if Strobel has no arguments with those....(and his preferred diet for a pot-luck is fried chicken of course :tongue3, then he is a Baptist.

Good source of distinctives. I agree with all of them.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I missed the whole interaction. However, this board was created for active members of a Baptist church. Period. We make room for others and even gave them their own forum, but Baptist only means Baptist only. It hasn't been that long since we had a very similar discussion about my own status as a Baptist who is currently attending both the Baptist church I am a member of and the Episcopalian church my daughter attends.

If I make the leap from Baptist to Episcopalian, I expect to move on down to the other Christian Denom forum and read only in the Baptist Only even though I've been Baptist for 48 years. (okay it's only been 41 since I was baptised) And life will go on.

As for the man claiming to be Lee Strobel, I have my doubts as well. He could have easily verified his identity to a moderator and accepted BB rules on where to post. Sometimes we make life hard on ourselves.

 

[humblethinker]

...this board was created for active members of a Baptist church. Period. We make room for others and even gave them their own forum, but Baptist only means Baptist only.

What about the first New Testament church? They weren't 'Baptist' as you describe. What must one do in addition to self identifying as a 'Baptist' to be considered a Baptist in your opinion?

 

[menageriekeeper]

And therein lies the problem. It is NOT my definition of Baptist that counts!!! ONLY ANDREW T's definition of Baptist as expressed in the posted rules of this forum counts within this forum!!!

Even my definition accepts that there is a difference between being Baptistic in theology and actually being a current member of a Baptist church.

You guys want the rules changed, petition Andrew T and the mods. Until then, Baptist Only means what the rules say it means.

Ya'll gotta problem with authority????