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Who's Was the Responsible of Sept 11 Attack?

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Thank you Baptist Believer, you cleverly point out one of the two things we should remember about 'reasons why the USGoverment done-it':

1. The statements misrepresent the truth in illogical & useless ways.

2. Even if someone comes up with a true statement, I doubt if such a statement could be used to figure out just exactly who was in on the conspiracy and who was not.

So, in general, sitting around making up conspiracy theories is a waste of time; discussing them falls in significance between the following two activities:

A. watching paint dry

B. watching grass grow
 

donnA

Active Member
conspiracy theories never have proof, thats why they're theories, when in fact the actual evidences usually tell a different story then the theory.
 

ray Marshall

New Member
Baptist Believer said:
Coal mines are not buildings. The structural stability of buildings relies on some fundamental support systems maintaining load-bearing integrity. Once those fail, gravity tends to take things straight down.


If you want to melt steel into molten liquid, then you need something that burns hotter than diesel fuel, kerosene, and burning paper/wood. However, you don't need to melt steel to a liquid for it to lose strength, allowing a collapse. Steel (and other metals and substances for that matter) lose strength at much lower temperatures than what is required to "melt" them. The temperature of jet fuels and the fires in the building are enough to cause structural failure considering the damage to a number of supporting structures caused by the impact of the aircraft.


Fighters were scrambled to the region but did not arrive in time. The U.S. government was not on alert for this type of threat until the hijackings began to occur. Furthermore, we have rules regarding the use of afterburners over populated areas because of the damage from sonic booms they can create (which were ignored later than morning as the situation developed). Furthermore, our government was still trying to figure out who had the authority to shoot down a plane full of innocent passengers before we knew for certain what the hijackers were planning to do. By the time we knew for certain, the impacts had occurred.


Much of that debris followed the fuselage into the building, although there was plenty of evidence that a plane had crashed. If you look for photographic evidence, you will find it. One Two


The plane didn't "land" in a field, it plummeted at very high speed into the ground and left a crater filled with shattered debris and body fragments. See photos on the right of this page.


Uh huh. So, have you even flown a large passenger jet inverted? Have you even heard of anyone doing it without crashing the plane? These jets are not stunt planes or crop dusters. The pilots were trying to avoid getting anyone hurt.

Remember, the pilots don't yet know what was happening to them. At the time these jets were hijacked, no planes had yet crashed into buildings. Furthermore, standard procedure with hijackings is that the hijacker wants something (often political) and has no intention of killing themselves or most of the hostages. (If you were alive and paying attention to the world outside your home in the 1970s-1990s, you would know this.) Flight crews and passengers were told to cooperate with the hijackers for everyone's safety. Certainly, that's not true today. Furthermore, when the passengers of Flight 93 realized that the hijackers intended to kill everyone on the plane as well as people on the ground, things changed very quickly. You can't judge early 9/11 behavior by post 9/11 knowledge of events.


I don't even understand this assertion. The hijackers had some flight training so they were able to manage the basic instruments. The most difficult parts of learning to fly and plane are the take-off and landings. The hijackers didn't have to do either of these.
---

You list of evidence/allegations makes little sense. A small amount of common knowledge and common sense (plus the willingness to consider evidence that might contradict your sensationalist theory) easily disproves these allegations.


You write a good "furthermore."
Have you had any experience with dynamite charges??? I worked in construction inside the mines, not production. There is a lot of difference in the kind of work I did than blasting coal. We drilled and shot belt channels, overcast, main line for hauling coal out of the mines on rail development. Not the same as just a small shot. Have you watched how they bring big buildings down for more development , lets say in Las Vegas. I do know something about using dynamite to your advantage. They use delays from the bottom up and can bring them down so smothly.
Some of the other 6 reasons can be arguemenal by both of us. Another "however"
gives me more conspiracy reasons than I think you have given me. I'm just not taking their explanation for just what they have tried to brain-wash me.
with.
When the first plane hit the building, I thought it was by accident, but when the next plane hit the other, My wife and I talked about, "Was it planned?"

The pentagon had only a damage of 13-18 feet wide. My what a nice trick to get a large plane inside a 13-18 feet wide hole!!
"
 

rbell

Active Member
I don't follow the reasoning:

"I've used dynamite; thus, I have expertise with understanding a plane's collision with a skyscraper."

The "evidence" you present isn't thin; it's non-existent. Baptist Believer presents rational, scientific explanation, along with photographic evidence.

I still see nothing to support the "conspiracy," other than that it might sell a lot of fictional books.
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
There was one chap who didn't make the planes. He was caught by authorities in the Detroit area where he was trying to escape into Canada. Apparently he revealed quite a bit of information about the source of the attacks.

Cheers,

Jim
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
// The pentagon had only a damage of 13-18 feet wide. My what a nice trick to get a large plane inside a 13-18 feet wide hole!! //

When the Pentagon was planned in the early 1940s, it was planned to withstand the most dangerous weapon in the world the time: 1/2-Ton (1,000 pounds) bombs designed to penetrate 18-inch Metal Armor on Battleships. Sorry, a cruise missile could NOT have penetrate the outer walls of the Pentagon. What ever made a 13-18 feet wide hole (Which number I doubt anyway) in the outer walls of the Pentagon had to as big as a Beoing- 737 or larger).

Actual American Cruise Missles, the pilot-less aircraft/bomb has a computer program that flies it - flies it lot better than terrorists who flunk out of Flight School. Which window of the Pentagon would you like for it to fly in, Sir?
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Jim1999 said:
There was one chap who didn't make the planes. He was caught by authorities in the Detroit area where he was trying to escape into Canada. Apparently he revealed quite a bit of information about the source of the attacks.

Cheers,

Jim

Amen, Brother Jim1999 - Preach it! :thumbs:

He was the '20th Man' involved in the 9-11 attacks. He flunked out of a pilot school in my home town. They just aren't recruiting as smart a brand of suicide type terrorists as they used to recruit. The Terrorist Conspirators are finding out that your average person dumb enough to blow themselves up for 72-virgins ain't smart enough to fly a plane. And when they see America has strip clubs which are better than the the unproved hope of '72-virgins' - the suicidal tendancy folk tend to find a reason to live. But hey, that is just my opinion - the ideas in this paragraph were not handed down to Brother Moses on tables of Stone out on the Big Mountain of Siani by the very Hand of God
 

Marcia

Active Member
annsni said:
That's a good one - guess you didn't even see the pictures. Even *I* could tell it's bigger than 13-18 feet wide.

Take a look at the picture closely. That is not 13-18 feet wide.

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=94564&rendTypeId=4

Thanks for posting this link, Annsni!

My Sunday School teacher actually witnessed the plane hitting the Pentagon (remember, I live in the Wash DC area), and I saw the damage myself later.

Many people from my church heard the plane hit that day - a loud, alarming, resounding noise that made people think of a huge explosion.
 

ray Marshall

New Member
Marcia said:
Thanks for posting this link, Annsni!

My Sunday School teacher actually witnessed the plane hitting the Pentagon (remember, I live in the Wash DC area), and I saw the damage myself later.

Many people from my church heard the plane hit that day - a loud, alarming, resounding noise that made people think of a huge explosion.

Well, I looked at the picture you wanted me to see, BUT where is the plane??
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
ray Marshall said:
Well, I looked at the picture you wanted me to see, BUT where is the plane??

Ummm - it crashed???? Burned??? Was pretty much obliterated??

Have you seen a plane crash? I have (thanks to my work with the Red Cross Disaster Team) and the majority of plane crashes result in small pieces - especially if the plane was full of fuel and burned on impact.

Have you seen any plane crashes up close?
 

ray Marshall

New Member
Ed Edwards said:
Amen, Brother Elder Ed Edwards -- Preach it! :thumbs:

Ed, you showed that the Conspiracy Events are very predictable going through the states in a predictable manner INDEPENDENT of the type event -- but totally dependent upon the nature of Conspiracy Theory(ies).

Unfortunately the Conspiracy Events that blame the US Government appear to me to be quite UN-PATRIOTIC, UN-AMERICAN, and UN-CHRISTIAN. But that is my own personal opinion. In general Conspiracy Theories destroy the Rights & Abilities of Victims to come to closure.

Due to one using his ability to choose what they think is not UN-PATRIOTIC, UN-AMERICAN, and UN-CHRISTIAN. Christians look for the good in man, However some humans care not what their citizens think or am not concerned whatsoever about human life in order to get their aim accomplished,whether right or wrong.
I see now that this 911 incident, we all have lost some of our freedom. President George Bush told congressmen to sign the patriot act. WITHOUT READING IT.
Would you have told them not to read it if it was YOU addressing the PATRIOT congressmen/women to DO THAT???
Also, if someone was your President across the isle that isn't in your political party, how outraged would you be, Honestly. Don't mis-construe this that I am saying I am a Democrat. I have always seen good and bad in both political parties. It is said that whover it may be in case of war that he is the commander in Chief is the top boss. They are controlled like a puppet anyway. Just a glorified politician is all I can see of them.
 

rbell

Active Member
ray Marshall said:
Due to one using his ability to choose what they think is not UN-PATRIOTIC, UN-AMERICAN, and UN-CHRISTIAN. Christians look for the good in man, However some humans care not what their citizens think or am not concerned whatsoever about human life in order to get their aim accomplished,whether right or wrong.
I see now that this 911 incident, we all have lost some of our freedom. President George Bush told congressmen to sign the patriot act. WITHOUT READING IT.
Would you have told them not to read it if it was YOU addressing the PATRIOT congressmen/women to DO THAT???
Also, if someone was your President across the isle that isn't in your political party, how outraged would you be, Honestly. Don't mis-construe this that I am saying I am a Democrat. I have always seen good and bad in both political parties. It is said that whover it may be in case of war that he is the commander in Chief is the top boss. They are controlled like a puppet anyway. Just a glorified politician is all I can see of them.

The merits, or lack, of the Patriot Act have nothing to do with the facts of 9/11. There is no conspiracy.
 

Marcia

Active Member
ray Marshall said:
Well, I looked at the picture you wanted me to see, BUT where is the plane??

Annsni answered you, but you evaded the issue when you posted this - you had said that this was only a 13 to 18 ft. wide hole. As you can see, it so much bigger. But you did not admit you were wrong.
 

ray Marshall

New Member
Jim1999 said:
There was one chap who didn't make the planes. He was caught by authorities in the Detroit area where he was trying to escape into Canada. Apparently he revealed quite a bit of information about the source of the attacks.

Cheers,

Jim

alright I'll bite. Just what did he say to the authorities?
 

ray Marshall

New Member
Marcia said:
Thanks for posting this link, Annsni!

My Sunday School teacher actually witnessed the plane hitting the Pentagon (remember, I live in the Wash DC area), and I saw the damage myself later.

Many people from my church heard the plane hit that day - a loud, alarming, resounding noise that made people think of a huge explosion.

Yes a lot of people saw and heard the explosion. We know that for a fact. I bet a lot of debris was all around the place. Even on the Highways. Maybe hit a few vehicles, moving and parked.
 

ray Marshall

New Member
Marcia said:
Annsni answered you, but you evaded the issue when you posted this - you had said that this was only a 13 to 18 ft. wide hole. As you can see, it so much bigger. But you did not admit you were wrong.

Sure I was wrong. Could you tell me just how large that hole was???
 

ray Marshall

New Member
annsni said:
Ummm - it crashed???? Burned??? Was pretty much obliterated??

Have you seen a plane crash? I have (thanks to my work with the Red Cross Disaster Team) and the majority of plane crashes result in small pieces - especially if the plane was full of fuel and burned on impact.

Have you seen any plane crashes up close?

I have never witnessed a airplane crash. Only on TV. It's funny that some of the aircraft is intact. Do you think there could have been some explosives aboard the little plane?
 
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