Whosoever - John 3:16

[37818]

No, that doesn't say that at all and you have yet to show how it does.

It does not say what? It does say many are called. Of the many few are chosen, aka elect.

 

[AustinC]

It does not say what? It does say many are called. Of the many few are chosen, aka elect.

You seem to miss the entire point.
We preach to all, calling them to reconciliation with Christ. But, few who hear our human message (we are the servants in the parable) are chosen. The man who tried to crash the party was not chosen, even though he attempted to join. He had not been given the wedding garment.

What is it that is stumping you in this parable?

 

[37818]

You seem to miss the entire point.
We preach to all, calling them to reconciliation with Christ. But, few who hear our human message (we are the servants in the parable) are chosen. The man who tried to crash the party was not chosen, even though he attempted to join. He had not been given the wedding garment.

What is it that is stumping you in this parable?

Nothing. Our disagreement is over our understanding of the called, God choosing who will be elect in His eternal omniscience, I understand God's elect to become the elect in time. We disagree on how this is to be understood.

 

[Silverhair]

You seem to miss the entire point.
We preach to all, calling them to reconciliation with Christ. But, few who hear our human message (we are the servants in the parable) are chosen. The man who tried to crash the party was not chosen, even though he attempted to join. He had not been given the wedding garment.

What is it that is stumping you in this parable?

He had not been given a wedding garment. In other words he had not entered through faith in the Son but by works. Gal_3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[AustinC]

He had not been given a wedding garment. In other words he had not entered through faith in the Son but by works. Gal_3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

He never had faith to begin with, Silverhair.
He tried to enter in by his...free will!!!!!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, but the calling and election are in the singluar.

Fine, don't be persuaded. I am.

Fair enough. We shall hav to agree to disagree. Thanks for te discussion.

 

[Silverhair]

He never had faith to begin with, Silverhair.
He tried to enter in by his...free will!!!!!

Now who is reading into the text? You can not really believe what you are saying here do you? You have gone completely of the rails. You just prove that you are willing to overthrow scripture so as to uphold your philosophy.

What are the wedding cloths that the people are given to put on? According to the bible it could be Christ Jesus. Romans 13:14. or we could say it is incorruption1 Corinthians 15:53-54 or Galatians 3:27. See Austin there are things that one can put on by their choice {free will} as you like to call it. But did you notice the main thing, they had to do it, God does not do it for them.

Since the man with no wedding garment did not want to avail himself {free will} of the offered garment he was cast out.

You have such a struggle with the text of the bible in your desperate effort to support your Calvinist view. Give it up Austin, trust the bible.

 

[tyndale1946]

Nothing. Our disagreement is over our understanding of the called, God choosing who will be elect in His eternal omniscience, I understand God's elect to become the elect in time. We disagree on how this is to be understood.

And you were saying?... Your argument is with scripture... Brother Glen

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[AustinC]

Now who is reading into the text? You can not really believe what you are saying here do you? You have gone completely of the rails. You just prove that you are willing to overthrow scripture so as to uphold your philosophy.

What are the wedding cloths that the people are given to put on? According to the bible it could be Christ Jesus. Romans 13:14. or we could say it is incorruption1 Corinthians 15:53-54 or Galatians 3:27. See Austin there are things that one can put on by their choice {free will} as you like to call it. But did you notice the main thing, they had to do it, God does not do it for them.

Since the man with no wedding garment did not want to avail himself {free will} of the offered garment he was cast out.

You have such a struggle with the text of the bible in your desperate effort to support your Calvinist view. Give it up Austin, trust the bible.

You are the one reading into the text.

The person did not believe. He was trying to use his free will to gain entrance on his own. He was removed because the bridegroom never chose to give him a wedding garment.

Notice, you even admit that God must choose to give out the garment.
The Bridegroom never gave the man the wedding garment and even after the man tried to enter (he willed to be there when many others ignored the wedding entirely) the groom didn't say "glad you chose to come, now let me get you a garment." No, the groom threw him out into hell.

The parable stands in stark contrast to your free will philosophy and indicates that if you trust in your free will you may be hell bound at the wedding feast.

 

[tyndale1946]

It does not say what? It does say many are called. Of the many few are chosen, aka elect.

If few are chosen and they are the elect, then would you explain to me how the few elect are the multitude that no man can number, standing around the throne praising the Lord in Heaven?... Again scripture...

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And btw... Few is a subcategory of the elect, a small group of the whole but elect according to the foreknowledge of God IS THE MULTITUDE!... Brother Glen

 

[Silverhair]

You are the one reading into the text.

The person did not believe. He was trying to use his free will to gain entrance on his own. He was removed because the bridegroom never chose to give him a wedding garment.

Notice, you even admit that God must choose to give out the garment.
The Bridegroom never gave the man the wedding garment and even after the man tried to enter (he willed to be there when many others ignored the wedding entirely) the groom didn't say "glad you chose to come, now let me get you a garment." No, the groom threw him out into hell.

The parable stands in stark contrast to your free will philosophy and indicates that if you trust in your free will you may be hell bound at the wedding feast.

Who exactly do you think saves a person, here is a hint GOD. God saves those that trust in the Son. That would be God saving a person because of their faith Ephesians 2:8-9. How are you able to miss so much clear scripture, you must have a rare skill set or perhaps it is just that you are blinded.

I do notice that as per usual you ignore the scripture that I posted and just focus on your errant theology in a vain attempt to support it. You can ignore scripture but that does not change what it says.

The person has to put on Christ or incorruption1 Corinthians 15:53-54. But you just pass that by.

 

[AustinC]

Who exactly do you think saves a person, here is a hint GOD. God saves those that trust in the Son. That would be God saving a person because of their faith Ephesians 2:8-9. How are you able to miss so much clear scripture, you must have a rare skill set or perhaps it is just that you are blinded.

I do notice that as per usual you ignore the scripture that I posted and just focus on your errant theology in a vain attempt to support it. You can ignore scripture but that does not change what it says.

The person has to put on Christ or incorruption 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. But you just pass that by.

Silverhair, you can't hear yourself contradict yourself, can you?

You say God saves...those that trust in the Son.

Can you honestly not see how you make man the cause agent and God the effected one who then saves? Honestly, don't you see it?
Anyone reading what you wrote should be able to see it and grasp how you undercut the Supremacy of God in salvation.

You are perilously close to saying "God saves those who save themselves by trusting God."

I am pretty sure you don't understand 1 Corinthians 15:50-57.

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[37818]

If few are chosen and they are the elect, then would you explain to me how the few elect are the multitude that no man can number, standing around the throne praising the Lord in Heaven?... Again scripture...

There are a number of factors.
What we can know. And more we cannot know.
The size of the city of the bride. It is finite in size. But is huge. A cube 12,000 units of measure cubed. As I understand the number of people that can be in the city haven't been born yet. Now get this, the city houses the few! And there has not been that many born on earth yet since Adam.

 

[37818]

And you were saying?... Your argument is with scripture... Brother Glen

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

I am not arguing against Scripture.
The elect are the few. .Mark 13:20, ". . . whom he hath chosen, . . .". Are so identified in Ephesians 1:4, ". . . hath chosen . . . in him before the foundation of the world, . . .". But it says "us."

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair, you can't hear yourself contradict yourself, can you?

You say God saves...those that trust in the Son.

Can you honestly not see how you make man the cause agent and God the effected one who then saves? Honestly, don't you see it?
Anyone reading what you wrote should be able to see it and grasp how you undercut the Supremacy of God in salvation.

You are perilously close to saying "God saves those who save themselves by trusting God."

I am pretty sure you don't understand 1 Corinthians 15:50-57.

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now I know that you will not be able to understand these scriptures so perhaps you can get someone to explain them to you.

You continue to prove just how really dumb you can be. How many times does one have to say “God saves those that trust in His son” before it sinks into your brain.

You keep throwing out these strawman comments that you then knock down. You fit the classic cage stage Calvinist. Once you mature a bit then you might be able to actually provide some kind of argument to support your view.

If you are trying to support your view with 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 you really do not understand it at all. That’s one of the problems you have in your Calvinism. You think that just because those words “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ” are there that it supports you.

 

[AustinC]

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now I know that you will not be able to understand these scriptures so perhaps you can get someone to explain them to you.

You continue to prove just how really dumb you can be. How many times does one have to say “God saves those that trust in His son” before it sinks into your brain.

You keep throwing out these strawman comments that you then knock down. You fit the classic cage stage Calvinist. Once you mature a bit then you might be able to actually provide some kind of argument to support your view.

If you are trying to support your view with 1Corinthins 15:50-57 you really do not understand it at all. That’s one of the problems you have in your Calvinism. You think that just because those words “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ” are there that it supports you.

Thanks for the scripture. They all support my view of salvation while showing you to be wrong.

Your statement, "God saves those that trust in the Son", shows us that you view humans as the cause agent and God as the effected one who is bound by the cause agent to act in saving them.

As long as you teach man as the cause...you will forever be wrong. And all scripture tells us that God is the cause while men are the ones effected. All the verses you quoted show that my view is correct and yours is incorrect. At some point you will have to acknowledge this.

 

[tyndale1946]

There are a number of factors.
What we can know. And more we cannot know.
The size of the city of the bride. It is finite in size. But is huge. A cube 12,000 units of measure cubed. As I understand the number of people that can be in the city haven't been born yet. Now get this, the city houses the few! And there has not been that many born on earth yet since Adam.

I go with the more we cannot know... And stand by scripture!... It is not me to speculate, its not what I'm going to do, its what God is going to do according to his plan... The few is mans view... The merciful multitude is Gods... The most amazing fact as that he saved any, when he didn't have to... According to you most won't even make it and you can stretch the multitude into a billion years?... I'll meet you in the city when you get there and we can mix with the multitude... Brother Glen

 

[37818]

It is an issue of interpretion. Belief precedes regeneration. God solely regenerates a believer per His will. John 1:11-13.

 

[37818]

I go with the more we cannot know... And stand by scripture!... It is not me to speculate, its not what I'm going to do, its what God is going to do according to his plan... The few is mans view... The merciful multitude is Gods... The most amazing fact as that he saved any, when he didn't have to... According to you most won't even make it and you can stretch the multitude into a billion years?... I'll meet you in the city when you get there and we can mix with the multitude... Brother Glen

Well there is,
Matthew 20:28.
Matthew 22:14.
Ephesians 1:4.
Mark 13:20.

 

[Silverhair]

Thanks for the scripture. They all support my view of salvation while showing you to be wrong.

Your statement, "God saves those that trust in the Son", shows us that you view humans as the cause agent and God as the effected one who is bound by the cause agent to act in saving them.

As long as you teach man as the cause...you will forever be wrong. And all scripture tells us that God is the cause while men are the ones effected. All the verses you quoted show that my view is correct and yours is incorrect. At some point you will have to acknowledge this.

You really believe that don't you, that is so sad. You continue to deny scripture. You are so prideful that you can not see the possibility that you are wrong. That is the height of arrogance. You continue to hold to your Calvinism in the face of clear scripture.

Do yourself a favor and use Blue Letter Bible. Do a search for believe and how it is used. Who is the one that believes God or man? I really feel sorry for you Austin, I think you would like to know God but the God you have in view is not the God of the bible rather He is one of your imagination.