Why Are Conservatives Nervous About The President's Supreme Court Pick?

[Pastor Larry]

Bush is great! I love Bush! At least he's not Kerry!

Is that the "serious contribution to political dialogue" your looking for? [Roll Eyes]

Obviously not, Jonathan. You konw that. Why would you ask such a silly question?

[qutoe]Just because someone doesn't win, it doesn't mean their campaign was "pretend",[/quote]I didn't say ti was pretend because they didn't win.

and just because someone fools the conservatives into helping them win, it doesn't mean that they are a conservative candidate.

I didn't say that either.

Bush has betrayed his base time and time again, and the blind party loyalist like you don't seem to care, as long as there is not a Democrat in the Whitehouse.

You are being dishonest. I am still not a blind party loyalist. Never have been. Of course, you have been here long enough to know that. But unfortunatley in these conversations, as in politics, honesty is hard to come by. You know very well that I have not been blindly loyal to Bush to the party. You know very well that I am not a Republican. Why would you say differently? That is dishonest.

I have said from the beginning that Bush may or may not appoint a pro life justice. I hope he does. But that chances that he will are far greater than the chances of the president who would have been elected if I had followed your lead. At least with my vote, life got a chance.

It is fine to discuss issues, Jonathan, but be honest about what people say and what the believe. Don't make it up to try to bolster you own position. If you have a good position, you don't need to.

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Bush is great! I love Bush! At least he's not Kerry!

Is that the "serious contribution to political dialogue" your looking for? [Roll Eyes]

Obviously not, Jonathan. You konw that. Why would you ask such a silly question?

[qutoe]Just because someone doesn't win, it doesn't mean their campaign was "pretend",</font>[/QUOTE]I didn't say ti was pretend because they didn't win.

and just because someone fools the conservatives into helping them win, it doesn't mean that they are a conservative candidate.

I didn't say that either.

Bush has betrayed his base time and time again, and the blind party loyalist like you don't seem to care, as long as there is not a Democrat in the Whitehouse.

You are being dishonest. I am still not a blind party loyalist. Never have been. Of course, you have been here long enough to know that. But unfortunatley in these conversations, as in politics, honesty is hard to come by. You know very well that I have not been blindly loyal to Bush to the party. You know very well that I am not a Republican. Why would you say differently? That is dishonest.

I have said from the beginning that Bush may or may not appoint a pro life justice. I hope he does. But that chances that he will are far greater than the chances of the president who would have been elected if I had followed your lead. At least with my vote, life got a chance.

It is fine to discuss issues, Jonathan, but be honest about what people say and what the believe. Don't make it up to try to bolster you own position. If you have a good position, you don't need to. [/QUOTE]

You are fooling yourself, Pastor Larry. Women who want abortions will have them regardless of the law. You aren't saving any lives at all. Just like laws against murder and rape. Those things still happen. Drugs are still around even though they are illegal and there is even a "war" against them.

The reality is, there will be sinners always. There is nothing you can do, no law you can pass that will change that. Your only hope is to let your life be a beacon unto others. Treating others with kindness and love is the only way. I see nothing loving about forcing a scared, young girl into a back alley for an illegal abortion she may not herself survive. You aren't going to stop the murder of unborn children with laws. That's just foolishness. I would rather see all the effort put towards organizations that help young people with unwanted pregnancies to find other options. But no. We continue to condemn and hold ourselves too high. Our righteousness is but filthy rags... just the kind used in back alley abortion clinics.

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JamesBell:
This post could not be more false if it had been written as fiction. President Bush is, in fact, a true Christian. It is ridiculous to assert anything different.

George Bush has stated on two occasions that Christians and Moslems pray to the same god. Do you pray to Allah? Furthermore, he has said that there are many ways to salvation. If you believe this is the statement of a "true Christian" then go on believing it. I call it blasphemy. </font>[/QUOTE]Hear hear!

I think some Christians just like being used! The man is a man and nothing more. No one knows his heart but the Lord; for anyone to pretend they know otherwise is pure folly.

I say GWB is as blasphemous as they come and he is using God for his own glory!!! Shame on him!

 

[Pastor Larry]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />You are fooling yourself, Pastor Larry.

</font>[/QUOTE]What are you talking about? I have long said, to the dismay of many, that the hope for the abortion battle is in the heart, not in the law. WE should have laws against abortion. We should recognize it for the murder that it is. But the hope is in salvation in Jesus Christ alone.

The reality is, there will be sinners always. There is nothing you can do,

Sure there is ... We can do exactly what I am doing ... Preach teh gospel of Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation and freedom from sin. If churches would do a lot more of that and a lot less politicking or running for office we would be doing a lot better.

I see nothing loving about forcing a scared, young girl into a back alley for an illegal abortion she may not herself survive.

Me either. I think we need to stress adoption with unmarried mothers.

I would rather see all the effort put towards organizations that help young people with unwanted pregnancies to find other options.

I have said that for a long time.

But no. We continue to condemn and hold ourselves too high. Our righteousness is but filthy rags... just the kind used in back alley abortion clinics.

YOu will have to speak for yourself on that. You certainly didn't describe me with this statement. If you are this way, then repent, and live like it.

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />You are fooling yourself, Pastor Larry.

</font>[/QUOTE]What are you talking about? I have long said, to the dismay of many, that the hope for the abortion battle is in the heart, not in the law. WE should have laws against abortion. We should recognize it for the murder that it is. But the hope is in salvation in Jesus Christ alone.

The reality is, there will be sinners always. There is nothing you can do,

Sure there is ... We can do exactly what I am doing ... Preach teh gospel of Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation and freedom from sin. If churches would do a lot more of that and a lot less politicking or running for office we would be doing a lot better.

I see nothing loving about forcing a scared, young girl into a back alley for an illegal abortion she may not herself survive.

Me either. I think we need to stress adoption with unmarried mothers.

I would rather see all the effort put towards organizations that help young people with unwanted pregnancies to find other options.

I have said that for a long time.

But no. We continue to condemn and hold ourselves too high. Our righteousness is but filthy rags... just the kind used in back alley abortion clinics.

YOu will have to speak for yourself on that. You certainly didn't describe me with this statement. If you are this way, then repent, and live like it. </font>[/QUOTE]WE already have a law against abortion! God gave us the law not to kill. As with all things, whether we like it or not, God gave us the free will to follow his laws... or not. If a person doesn't see abortion as murder, or doesn't choose to follow God's laws, that is their choice. I'm all for free choice because God is the one who gave it to us! So, in a sense, I am anti-abortion but free choice. I can't take away someone else's choice to follow God's law or not. That is not for any man or woman to decide. That is between the individual and God. Period.

If preaching the gospel is all that is needed to abolish sin, it would have been gone a long time ago.

When you oppose abortion, you take the right away from others who believe that life does not begin at conception. I personally don't believe this, but many do. It is their right to sin, God gave them the choice. What I'm saying is, we need to be more compassionate towards the sinners, not condemn them. Too much energy is being spent on stupid laws that will change nothing. Why not spend that time, money and energy on creating ways to help young mothers? God gave us laws and the free will to abide by them. He gave everyone free will. It is not our place to force people into obeying God's laws. We can preach to those who care to listen and we can live a life that shows we follow God's laws ourselves. That is all we can do.

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
When you oppose abortion, you take the right away from others who believe that life does not begin at conception. I personally don't believe this, but many do. It is their right to sin, God gave them the choice.

It's not about a persons right to believe a falsehood about when life begins, and it's not about "their right to sin"!

Abortion is about murder, it's about babies being butchered while in their mothers wombs, and we DO have a right to pass laws that will allow us to prosecute anyone, including the mothers, who are involved in the death of these innocent children.

We are dealing with a holocaust that has taken more lives than Hitler, Stalin and Saddam combined, we need to take the proper actions to end this holocaust, not be concerned with violating someone's "right to sin"!

 

[Pastor Larry]

WE already have a law against abortion! God gave us the law not to kill.

In case you are not aware, the US has a law that does not always coincide with God's law, unfortunately. I am not debating whether or not abortion is murder. It clearly is. But as of now, the way our government works, it has to be addressed in a certain legal manner.

That is not for any man or woman to decide. That is between the individual and God. Period.

That is simply false. Living in a land of laws, it is also between the civil government and hte individual.

When you oppose abortion, you take the right away from others who believe that life does not begin at conception.

Killing people is not a right granted to individuals by the constitution. I am not taking away any right.

Your understanding of government and laws appears to be flawed. We are a nation of laws with a procedure to make and enforce those laws. We need to follow it.

Also, do not quote the entire post you are responding to. Quote only the section to which you are responding. That will shorten your posts and save bandwidth.

 

[poncho]

See now all that worry is for nothing. These are Fox Facts . Facts are facts.

 

[Sonjeo]

After all these years of trying to get a "pro-life" republican president to match with, what was really only dreamed about for so long, a complete republican congress, house and senate, and now Bush tells his faithful followers that he will not introduce an amendment to ban abortion because he say's "American is not ready for it". Not even going to try? He said this before the election to get votes from republican pro-choice voters and others and now after all we have seen in this presidency from the "imminent danger" in Iraq to the "imminent crisis" in Social Security is it any wonder that anyone except the rich would be nervous about "Mr. Credibility". They know he is there for one reason more than anything else and that is to represent and reward the wealthy with landslide favorable legislation. OughtOh!, yea that's right, abortion law doesn't reward the rich but hey it's still not a social program that costs the wealthy tax dollars but still, it's not a gift to the big boys either so, yea, better get a little nervous on this one. He doesn't need the votes anymore, lookout!

 

[TisHerself]

Pastor Larry, you are either deliberately twisting my words or you are not understanding, which could be my fault.

The bottom line is this; yes, we as Christians believe that life begins at conception, the very moment when God decided a woman should carry a life in her. Some people don't believe that; therefore, they don't believe that abortion is murder.

If there is a law that allows abortion, then the murderous act is only accountable to God, not to the Government. It is not murder in the Governments eyes. Therefore, it is a matter only between God and the individual, which is really all that matters ultimately.

 

[LadyEagle]

Actually, the Bible says that nations will be judged. So, it isn't just about being just between the individual and God.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
I say GWB is as blasphemous as they come and he is using God for his own glory!!! Shame on him!

Wow! Lots of compassion for homosexual sinners from TH on this board but none for President Bush.

Typical liberal.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
Women who want abortions will have them regardless of the law. You aren't saving any lives at all. Just like laws against murder and rape. Those things still happen.

So since anti-abortion laws won't wipe out 100% of abortions you are against such laws? If so, I guess you would also be against laws against murder and rape since they won't wipe out 100% of murders and rapes.

Wow!

 

[just-want-peace]

There are none so blind as those that WILL not see!

 

[billwald]

You all think this is some kind of last minute problem/ you gots to be kidding. Bush has been planning and dealing for at least 2 years. If he hasn't then he is even slower than he seems.

In other words, the fix is probably in for the next 2 judges.

 

[JamesBell]

Billwald, Bush has said that he has not be dealing with the issue, at least to go as far as looking at names. His staff has been doing the work, but the President has not.

If Bush selects a true conservative will those of you bashing him apologize? For some reason I doubt it, I sense this is just the typical red/blue debate, but using different terms since we are on a Christian site.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Pastor Larry, you are either deliberately twisting my words or you are not understanding, which could be my fault.

I don't deliberately twist people words.

Some people don't believe that; therefore, they don't believe that abortion is murder.

What is the relevance of their belief? Belief about a matter is not the issue. Truth is not relative. If someone believes that abortion is not murder, it doesn't change the fact that abortion is murder.

If there is a law that allows abortion, then the murderous act is only accountable to God, not to the Government. It is not murder in the Governments eyes. Therefore, it is a matter only between God and the individual, which is really all that matters ultimately.

That is true as of now. My point was about living in a land of laws, people are accountable to civil government to obey the laws, whatever they may be. Sorry to have misunderstood you, if I did.

 

[fromtheright]

James B, I was with you until you made the point about "balance". It's a nine-member Court. "Balance" would be a tie vote, which is pretty much impossible with an odd number. So far, O'Connor's "balance" has given us awful decisions, such as Planned Parenthood v. Casey, Lawrence v. Texas, the recent case on death penalty for minors, and her line of thinking on church-state cases, which puts her at odds with any reasonable understanding of the Establishment Clause.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by fromtheright:
So far, O'Connor's "balance" has given us awful decisions, such as Planned Parenthood v. Casey, Lawrence v. Texas &lt;snip&gt;

Lawrence v. Texas??
What outcome would you have wanted?

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Lawrence v. Texas was the anti-sodomy law in Texas.

The SC struck it down.

That was a bad decision.