Why aren't Baptists more Ecumenical???

I would not like to make any blanket clauses that state that Baptists are not ecumenical. Not ALL Baptists believe the same thing......and in your very own congregation.

Could it be because God commanded us to turn away from the brother who walks in a disorderly manner?

I have NEVER heard this verse used to say we should avoid brothers AND sisters of other denominations.

 

BillyMac

Over time you will notice more and more non-denominational churches that have the distinctives that Baptists (Especially SBC) used to have.

I see so many Baptists trying to rediscover what the NT teaches that we continue to drift from what we rediscovered 165 years ago ...

I am for fellowshiping with other believers, but I am not for ecumenicalism. But, more and more I am hearing that as a Baptist I must agree with all of these disparate and new theologies.

God Bless

 

Jesus prayed that all His people would be one. If that prayer means what so many Christians are saying it means...the removal of denominational line...we should all become one big happy ecumenical family. Thus, our clarion call should become, "It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you 'love' Jesus."

Lord, help us.

 

You think it is silly to obey God? 2Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. </font>[/QUOTE]That is simply pitting one scripture against another.

This leads to no thing being too small to justify withdrawl. Suddenly, many small matters are examples of 'walking disorderly', and 'not after tradition'.

The real test is to balance the two. Chrsit does want unity, and not just with the ever splintering effect of 'fellowship' with whatver group of people we carry with us after each successive split.

 

Hi BillyMac - I’m not speaking here directly to your reference to Dr. Dobson, for I don’t know enough about Him.

Jesus says in His first great commission to Israel to His 12 Apostles (Matthew 10) to be as wise as serpents. I believe this carries on into His second great commission of spreading the Word to all to “repent and be baptized for the remission of sins” to His 11 Apostles, which then became the 12 Apostles that received the Holy Ghost at Pentecost. I also believe this carries on into His third great commission of spreading to the world the grace of God” to His One Apostle.

So I believe we are to be as wise as serpents, and not fall prey to Satan with His deceptions. Are we to stand, applaud and join ranks with the World Council of Churches, and those that wish to “bring us into the fold of Worldly Wisdom? Do they believe as we Baptists that are Christians? Are we to join with Catholics, and others that are of works, that pray to Mary, angels, and Holy Saints, worshipping idols?

I believe it is getting much tougher these days for one to stand up for the GRACE of God, by which we are saved through faith. We are accused of not having love, and are mean, because we dare to stand up for Christ Jesus and His Word. They tell us, ”don’t we know that God loves everybody, and we are to do the same? But if we love them, we should offer them His Word, and then leave them alone if they don’t believe. But by His Word we are to stand giving it in its full power, for it does cut to the quick. This is love, and not hate or meanness as many like to portray us. Let’s don’t give up, or become too defensive or sensitive when we see His Word before us.

Again we are to recognize what is presented to us today, by those not In Christ. ”And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29. That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31. That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord”, I Corinthians 1:28-31.

We are to see through the wisdom of this world for what it is worth. From the best known Evangelist to the least of us contemporaries, are saying we must be more like the “beautified by the Pope”, the blessed “Mother Teresa ”. Nothing makes us feel (if we believe them) less worthy than someone to tell of their many works, then we look at ours. But this is not what Christ Jesus told us to do. He didn’t say sacrifice all and work for me. Christ doesn’t need our works or our money to survive. Today we are to spread the Grace of God salvation. We do what we were born to, and that is to do as we can. Not what others think we should be doing. We will work out our own Salvation in Christ, without being made to feel guilty. If we don’t do any works at all, we are still made righteous in only one way for remission of our sins coming by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation. Rewards or not, we are in HIM, being Once Saved Always Saved.

As to the Ecumenical movement, I say we refrain. Those in the ecumenical movement promote their unity among churches or religions to be applied on a worldwide application. Do they all believe they are saved only by the grace of God that is given to us through Christ Jesus. Upon joining they will give us a bill of sale that gives us the right to accept the anti-Christ with no questions asked, for those that join in this endeavor of Evangelizing this world, and we all becoming the same in our belief, will accept the one that Israel will accept –the false Messiah.

But we of the Body of Christ will not be here for this “debacle”. The earthy will remain earthy going into Jacobs Troubles, while we are in heaven. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

By all means let's connect ourselves at the hip to SS and TU... LOL!

How about if we do not get back to expository preaching or biblical teaching? SS and TU are relatively new to Baptist circles, since we have been around since the advent of the NT church...

 

Interesting Discussion. I think the problem is defining what unites Baptists. As a Reformed (Calvininst) Baptist, I have more in common with Presbyterians like R.C. Sproul and D. James Kennedy or with Reformed Anglicans like J.I. Packer than I do with Baptists like Charles Stanley and Adrian Rodgers.

The main thing that connects me to Charles Stanley and Adrian Rodgers is my Ecclesiology and Church ordinances but when it comes to the Gospel, I have more in common with Calvinist paedobaptists.

 

Well with the Charismatic Renewal being in New Orleans eveyr year..we got just about every single imaginable Christian (so-called) group coming in and they all have one thing in common.. the charismatic perspective of the Holy Spirit. Baptists... as just stated..have always separated themselves from other mainline denominations.
We had persons from each of the mainline denominations come into my Comparative Religions Class at the seminary and lecture for 30 minutes, then we had 30 minutes to pick on them. The only one that I would say I would even consider working with in ministry is Assemblies of God. The rest are too.. .. different.

 

I know that I'm walking a fine line here......

Firstly, I don't accept ecumenialism in the current context of being able to "hold hands and sing Kumbaya together" irregardless of doctrine, and I subscribe to and accept the Lord's admonishment to withdraw from those who walk in a disorderly manner, as well as the admonishment to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

Having said that though, I also look closely to whether I am breaking fellowship over a Biblically sound doctrinal issue (the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Salvation by grace vs. works etc.) or over a man made tradition.

For example, I can not be, nor am I a member of the greater ****** ministerial association, (I don't wish to name the city) as they have as members Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like.

However within our immediate area we have four functioning churches. The church I pastor is in a community of about 275 people, and we are the only church in our "village".
In Everglades City which is about ten miles away, there is a non-denominational community church, a seasonal Catholic church, a Baptist church, and about 8 miles further out there is a Church of God.

Our area has been traditionally one of drug abuse, immorality, alcohol abuse, and everything that goes with them.

A little over two years ago, as a backlash to a certain well-known (locally) person dying of a drug overdose, the Christians in our respective communities of all denominations asked the various pastors if they could hold weekly prayer meetings in the churches (a different church each week) in order to petition the Lord; that He would remove the scourge of drugs here.

To make a long story short, this ecumenical prayer group has been meeting ever since at a different church each week, with the pastors of the participating churches in attendance. Only the other Baptist church refused to participate, and the Catholic church does not send a priest, but allows use of their building.

In the course of time that this group has been meeting, drug use and sale has (according to the sheriff's office) has dropped by over 40 percent, we have seen many young people make the decision to "kick the habit", we have seen a plethora of people who have been living together (some for 15 years) get married because they say they want to "get right", at our last civic assn meeting the Sheriff's office told us that there had been no reported crime in our village for 8 months, and people are making decisions for Christ............

This is a work of Jesus Christ our Lord, and all the credit and glory belongs to Him and Him alone!!!

The question arises though: What would have happened if the various pastors had not been willing to lay aside our differences, instead of uniting in our agreement as to the basic principles and doctrines of the Christian faith?

Something to think about........

 

To answer the initial question, I think Baptists more consistent than any others I am aware of insist that fellowship be based on agreement in faith.

I doubt your statement holds much water with regard to motive. Baptists do tend to parse down to the finest detail. However given the choice, I think this is a safer route biblically than to fellowship with anyone who declares themselves a Christian.

I disagree completely. Every group tries to rationalize and justify their positions. Many will see the benefit of relating it to scripture in one way or another. But very few really, consistently accept scripture as the final authority on all matters of faith and practice. Many, if not most, search the scriptures for support of what they already believe. Few search the scriptures really waiting to see what God has to say about a given subject. Baptists bear some guilt in this but not nearly as much as others IMO.

"heart of Christ"? How do you know the "heart of Christ" unless you find it in the pages of scripture?

Jesus never said to accept sin or false doctrines. We should love people however this is no mandate for ignoring serious problems.

 

Amen.

Fellowship is not the object but rather a result. The object is to be truly submitted to the Christ of the Bible to the glory of God.

The more faithful people under any label are to the teachings and principles of scripture- the more genuine Christian unity can exist between them and vice versa.

 

You could be the wisest of us all, absorbing, rejecting, and correlating available input, seeing what agrees with His Word. You seem to be on a pretty firm footing to me.

BillyMac, I notice I left out something from my first post as I had pressing matters to attend to. So I am replying to this post of yours with what I intended to end with. At least it is shorter.

I wish to clarify that I don’t believe only Baptists are in the Body of Christ. I know some that do not attend church on a regular basis, normally only for communion, or with family. These believe one thing, and that is they are saved by the Grace of God through faith. One of my closest friends recently died, he being a life long Catholic, but we became close friends (we all probably have at least a friend of this nature) and it was very surprising as he came to understand salvation just as I. He believed everything was based on the premise that Jesus had died for him and his family, and he placed all the other things (works) in their proper place of coming after His salvation. I don’t believe any of those things he spoke of are proper, but in his salvation, that was for him to work out.

Really what I wanted to close with was an Amen to your revealing statement that we humans (and yes even Baptists) do indeed judge, as revealed in your “Are we so closed minded that we should reject every other Christian based on denominationalism??? Are we THAT sectarian as to claim that we and ONLY WE have the exclusive rights to be Heaven bound and that others aren't???”

But we do have to stay on “watch” of those churches, or persons that deny Him, and His Word, and that attach works to their agenda to do before salvation. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.

 

I have found that as the years have passed, I have become a little more ecumenical and less militant in certain areas.

 

We should embrace all of Christ's church. Does anyone here really believe that only Baptists are going to Heaven? If not, how can we withold fellowship with those whom the Lord accepts? </font>[/QUOTE]Could it be because God commanded us to turn away from the brother who walks in a disorderly manner?

2Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. </font>[/QUOTE]Which is clearer:

1) The definition of "disorderly." or

2) God's acceptance of someone into the Kingdom?