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Why Believe One can Lose Salvation??
- Thread starter Tazman
- Start date
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
We can know that if we endure to the end we'll "make it". That's what Christ said. We can also know that by God's grace we can indeed endure to the end. We also know that when we confess our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all righteousness. However, we also know that unless we repent, we too will perish.
Red Herring. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, and when He does we must then confess it and repent of it. It's not that hard of a concept.
The promise is not illusory for those who abide in Christ, who continue to confess and repent when they do happen to stumble, and who endure to the end.
Straw man. God is the final judge, and the Bible says we are to holy in all our conduct just as He is holy (Peter 1:15-16). Paul tells us to examine ourselves to see if we our in the faith, implying this is something we can do(2 Cor 13:5). Peter tells us to make our call and election sure by adding certain "things" to our faith--in fact if we did these things we would never stumble (2 Peter 1:5-11). John in his first epistle tells us we can know we have eternal life and how we can know that we are in the light.
No, as I showed, the context of all such passages was the people back then. They could still fall back under the Law.</font>[/QUOTE]No, you didn't actually "show" anything. You merely asserted it. The only thing you "showed" was that you are capable of contorting the real meaning of Scripture by squeezing it through some modern day dispensationalist interpretive grid.
If it's up to us, we're doomed. You all admit that you don't know for sure if oyou will always remain faithful.</font>[/QUOTE]But you can know right now if you are walking in the light. That's what John's First Epistle is all about.
That does not logically follow, regardless of your desire for that to be the case. Christ blood indeed covers all sin one has committed, however, it doesn't automatically cover any future sins before the fact. If one sins, he must then confess and repent in order to be forgiven and cleansed. (1 John 1:9) The whole being "unaware of some sins" is a red herring. As one is abiding in Christ the Holy Spirit convicts him of anything he needs to confess and repent. Once convicted, the beliver must then confess and repent. There's, therefore, no license for being lazy and lackadaisical when it comes to our responsibility of repentence and walking in the light. If we don't repent, we too will perish.
That's simply false. Christ is indeed better than the OT sacrifices because His blood can actually take away sin. (The blood of animals cannot.) But Christ's blood cleanses us (present tense) only if we are walking in the light (1 John 1:7). Here's the verse again:
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses (present tense) us from all sin". (1 John 1:7)
We become the righteousness of God by remaining in Him. We certainly can't become the righteousness of God outside of Christ. Christ told us to abide in Him which means this is something we can do. If/when we do stumble we simply must confess and repent trusting in Christ's promise to cleanse us from all unrighteousness when we do so.
Not true. It can be and is in fact imparted as it is infused in us, if we are in Christ.
.
It's not arrogant to believe the promises of God that by His grace we can indeed become transfomed into the image of Christ--not fictiously but actually. We can indeed, as we are commanded by Paul, "work out (our) salvation with fear and trembling" knowing that "it is God who works in (us) both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12-13)
And herein lies the problem--you "think". Basically out of a desire to come up with some "more stable salvation" you've embraced doctrinal novelty and re-interpreted Scriptures accordingly.
The Bible (OT and NT) is full of conditional statements where we must "keep" ourselves, "continue", "hold fast", "abide", and "endure". Apart from God's grace we of course can do none of this, but by God's grace we can. However, it's still us who--by God's power--must do all the "keeping", "continuing", "holding fast", "adiding" and "enduring". Your view is merely an attempt to explain all this away--dismissing these exhortations as only applying to some bygone dispensation. No matter how you spin it, though, the dispensationalist, antinomian "OSA" gospel is a false one.
The standard is indeed Christ and we all called to be conformed to this standard--not simply in some "legal fiction" sense, but actually. By God's grace, those who are in fact abiding in Him are being transformed into His image (2 Cor 3:18). Ultimately this is what salvation is about--union with God in Christ by the Holy Spirit resulting in our transformation into the likeness of Christ. Salvation, though described at times with legal metaphors, is not reducible to merely a series of legal transactions. (Those who do make such a reduction are the ones making the straw man allegations of "uncertainty" and "shakiness" regarding the biblical teaching of conditional security.) True salvation is ultimately ontological and it takes place by our union with Christ. We're saved from sin, not saved in sin.
2 Timothy 1:12... for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Christ keeps my salvation; I don't. I have committed it (my salvation) into his hands. I am eteranlly secure, and He does not lie, neither will he fail.
DHK
Christ keeps my salvation; I don't. I have committed it (my salvation) into his hands. I am eteranlly secure, and He does not lie, neither will he fail.
DHK
"if". "right now". What does that really mean for us now? We don't even know if we will make it in the end. (In fact, since it is really "the end" that counts, many of your persuasion are led to try to get away with as much as they can now, and perhaps "repent" of it all on their death bed, or whenever. More on this later).
Once again, just giving a drowing man "instructions" to keep swimming and calling it "grace". (i.e. as long as you're fighting hard enough to keep your head above the water, you are at that point making it, and if you keep up, you'll be saved)
He said TO WHOM?
But that doesn't mean salvation is riding on the line each instance. For once again, there were many periods int he Church when sin was practiced or condoned corporately, and I wonder what about the Spirit's conviction, but there are times when all of us ignore the Spirit; and from there we can get into judging, and I just leave their standing in God's hand. We cannot judge people on the Law, for we will fall short as well, even with your "repent of every sin and be saved again and again, and again" program.
Of course. But it is still not a matter of falling in and out of salvation every day (at least until you happen to stoop and ask forgiveness). Once again, "holiness" is ultimately imputational. A person who has rejected Christ and is not even trying to be holy is not holy, of course, but you can't have the position of "holy" revoked every time a person sins.
Yeah, like to make sure you're not trusting in your own works, as he teaches elsewhere. That was actually a bigger problem back then, perhaps even moreso than your so-called "antinomianism".
Of course, if a person would do those things, he would know he had eternal life. But if he doesn't "We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous" (John 2:1), and nearly all of us do not all the time.
Of course, the goal is to be holy, bear the fruits of the Spirit, keep the Commandments. But if salvation is held in the balance daily, then we are no better off that those in the OT.
Actually, what I have been speaking of is not particularly dispensationalist, though it does deal with the dispensations. If you deny the dispensations, then basically you are saying we are still under the Olc Covenant, and your system is basically a rehashing of it!
I "showed" the context, that those being spoken of were those who would come to "count eh blood an unholy thing". That is not just anybody [esp. today] who simply forgets to ask forgiveness of an individual sin, or otherwise fails to live up to your merit program. The contortion was done a long time ago, and the Church's history of fearmongering and resultant lack of any "good news" is the fruit of it.
You're the one contorting the word "if", and turning it into some continual falling in and out of salvation. But look at the CONTEXT! The preceding verse: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us!" Then, the following verse: "If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us". According to you, you must actually have "no sin" to be saved, and if you do sin, you can only gain salvation back by immediately "repenting" of it. So if it is possible to "know we have eternal life" that way, then we basically must say we have no sin! (When we do sin, repent of it, it is forgiven, and then we say we have no sin again, until the next time).This is what John is speaking against! But instead, "If" we stop trusting on our own works, and trust Christ has saved us when we first came to Him, then we will be in a position where we can better hear the conviction of the Spirit, and then be "cleansed".
What you are describing is not a COVERing at all. You're still in constant danger, and saying "not if you continue in works" does no good, because since there is always the possibility that you won't continue, no matter how hard you work, there is always the constant danger. Now you may try and cite the usual out of context proof texts on "danger" again, but then if that were the case, then there is no such thing as a "covering"
No one here is advocating being "lazy or lackadiaiscal". But our motivation is not having salvation constantly hanging in the balance based on our performance.
No, actually, according to the passages you quote, it is our own being holy that takes away or sin. (That is, unless those scriptures are being misunderstood or missapplied). Once again, the problem is that your system is a virtual copy of the old testament system, with "blood" having to be daily applied by human effort, or you're not atoned.
And here again, you're seizing upon words and tenses, but often, the texts are written as present tense, meaning that it is a present reality, not that the initian process is repeated every day. Once again the context. Someone who thinks they have no sin is in darkess, and will not even see a need to grow. But if they confess, (their sinfulness, not just individual sins] then they will be cleansed. This is the contrast we see throughout scripture. "confess" versus "deny"; not "confess" versus "not be saved". Even Pr.28:13, it is "confess and forsake" versus "covereth" (i.e. tries to deny or cover up for it by his own means)
Still, this assumes we are "out of Him" every time we sin, until we repent. This based on misreadings of the above scriptures.
So if we don't make it, what does that mean? That God withheld His grace? Is this Calvinism or something?
If God does it, there is no chance of failure. But since we do not see anybody completely sinless, then what God does must not be instant sinlessness, but an imputational sanctification when we stop trusting in ourselves, and rely completely on Him( Heb.4:10, 11) Then, we will be open to the SPirit, and n a position to be led by God to a state where we grow and sin less and less. But to place salvation on this is to have it all backwards.
And here we go again with the same much misused proof text. I hate to be too sarcastic, but since you are so focused on the word "if", then you should also be aware of the difference between "out" and "FOR".
"Work OUT your salvation means you already have it, now act like it! Once again, to read it as "Work FOR" is to get it all backwards.I admitted "I Think" there specifically, because I am just learning about the role of AD70 in salvation, and there are still some questions as to how true it is. But it's not that I just sat down and said "OK, now let's see how we can have a more stable salvation. Ah, if I just say thisn, then that will do it". No, I heard the idea from the preterists here, and resisted some its implications as much as anyone else regarding the nature of the Kingdom and resurrection, but as I continued to study it in light of these passages; It became clear that we are appying many passages that were for those readers to us, and this has caused many problems in doctrine. I had already long seen how the Calvinists did that with Romans 9: apply a passage about Israel to all man, and end up with God making a whole class of people from the entire world for all time, He refuses to save. Preterism had suggested that many more passages were similarly misused (though most full preterists are Reformed and ironically hold onto the misreadng of Rom9!), and their strongest argument was the "time statements". Something was going to happen in their lifetimes, which was what they were to "persevere" unto!; but since the Church did not see a physical return of Christ, we just extended that all the way up to our time, and here we are with half a dozen threads on this same subject going continuously; forever unable to resolve the issue! Something is wrong with this. But of course, everyone steps up and says "But my view is the right one; they're all wrong". But at least here I admitted this was my thought.
Amd what is God's Grace, then? Once again, just an "instruction"? That's what they had in the OT, and nobody could live up to it. It always ended up "faith" being counted righteousness" (Rom., Gal., Heb.) Yes, both "OT and NT" as you say, because apparently, there is no difference!
Once again, all the enduring was to lead up to something "shortly", "in their lifetimes". No one has ever explained this, except" "well, I guess it extends to all of us", but I have to admit, as much as I was shocked by this view, that that is stretching it quite a bit". Once again, I may not be 100% sure of this, but anything that can explain a long standing dilemma like that deserves consideration, instead of maintaning our longstanding traditions (which are useful for filling pwews through fear).
Once again, as you should see clearly from this, this is not regular "dispensationalism". Talk about "antinomianism", once again, it is your "high" style Churches with their works-based salvation who end up producing the most "antinomianism", since the people realize they canoot live up to the works is necessary for salvation, so instead of trusting Christ alone, they figure "Oh well, God must understand", or "Well; I hope my good outweighs my bad", or "I think I'm doing enough now".
The entire concept of sin and atonement is legal. Because we fell, we are legally condemned (with individual sins the fruit of it), and the only way we can be "conformed" is legally! Else, you (once again) bring down "the standard" to sinful man and his imperfect works. If you can produce someone who is as sinless as Christ (present and future) then you could actually make your claim of literal "conformed to Christ". But there "IS none righteous; no; NOT ONE" (Rom.3:10)
Right. But then noone is saved yet, because they are still in the process, and no one has arrived. Else, we are already saved, and being "conformed" is connected with "working out" that salvation!
Yes, and ontological mean "being", not "doing". Doing is only a FRUIT of the being, but the being does not rest on the doing, though if the person is faking, or whatever, he will have no works, which will be the fruits of dead faith. Once again, do not get it backwards.
And once we're declared righteous, we're then no longer "in sin". We do not fall back into the status of "in sin" every time we commit a sin, or have not "confessed" yet.
Nobody here is trying to hold onto sin. But some are trying to justify themselves by their own works (which is sin!)
You're the ones teaching that, in saying God is so quick to revoke salvation!
Huh?
No body's saying that. BUT SDA's are always twisting non-sabbathkeepers' statements to mean that.
God didn't lie; He showed man through his own sin that he could't keep the commandments, and remember; God's standard is not keeping a single commandment at one particular time (of course anyone can do that), but rather PERFECTION!
Yes, they kept commandments, but were not saved because of it. For while they may have been keeping the commandments at that given time; there were other times when they did not. Else all would not be sinners, and THEN God would be a liar (1 John)!
Yes, and that's why people are save, not because of the commandment keeping" itself, since we do sin!
It's the legalists who Jesus said was straining at gnats!
BINGO!!!
This is quite a far stretch from the performance-oriented FEAR-based program people seem to be pitching. In fact, here's another one for the both of you:
"There is no FEAR in love; ut perfect love casteth out fear. because fear has torment. He who fears is not made perfect in love. We loved Him BECAUSE He first loved us" (1 John 4:18)
Now you SAY this, quoting these passages, but then continue to JUDGE others who you think are not keeping all the necessary commandments (picked and chosen out of the whole), and then miscontrue our words. The only ones calling God a liar are the ones who think they are justifying themselves by their works!
Once again, nobody here desires to sin and break His commandments.
It is only legalists who make Him out to be a tyrant, refusing to realize that if He is judging us by keeping the Law, there is no grace. It is only legalists who have God playing games with us by saving us by works when He knows we cannot work our way to His perfect standard, and then pretends to give us somethign called "grace", which s but mere "instructions" to do works man has shown he can not do CONSISTENTLY.
Just realize that you too shall have to answer for these charges you are making against people because they do nopt buy into your works-salvation.
I put the blame for my sin on my self, and received Chris't forgivness, and now it is a done deal. I do not desire to go and sin now, and only need to believe I am constantly in and out of salvation to motivate me to do good works. You're the one who seems so busy pointing at others, while apparently thinking youre keeping all the commandments enough to be justified.
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
It means we can know right now. We can know if we continue to remain in him we will make it to the end. (Again, it's not that hard of a concept)
He said TO WHOM?</font>[/QUOTE]Umm...his disciples. (You know, the ones that follow Christ) Oh, but I guess repentence is no longer applicable after AD 70.
True, and one does so at his own risk.
If you don't abide in the Vine you have no reason to consider yourself "holy", regardless of any one-time decision you may have made in the past to "accept Christ".
Yeah, like to make sure you're not trusting in your own works, as he teaches elsewhere. </font>[/QUOTE]Paul was concerned with the Judaizers--those who trusted in the works of the Torah. He wasn't against all works...you know, works that flow out of love for Him.
"For in Christ neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love" Gal 5:6
If this "faith" we profess is not working through love, it doesn't avail anything. And lest, you reply that once one "accepts Christ" his faith will passively and automatically produce works of love, Paul says this:
"Those who have believed (perfect tense) in God should be careful to maintain good works." (Titus 3:8)
(Whoa, Paul--you can't be serious? I thought my own time past decision to follow Christ was enough) Lest, you think that Paul is merely concerned with being careful to maintain good works just for the sake of showing others our faith (or something like that), Paul says:
"God 'who will render to each one according to his deeds': eternal life to those by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also the Greek; but glory honor and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also the Greek." (Romans 2:6-10)
(Paul, what are you talking about???? God isn't going to render to folks 'according to their deeds'! That's works salvation! He's going to give eternal life to those who "accepted Christ" once upon a time in their life!) To that Paul says:
"You stand (present tense) by faith. Do not be haughty but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but towards you goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22).
Yeah we thankfully have an Advocate who can cleanse and forgive us when we need to confess and repent.
Umm...Paul does say to work out our salvation with "fear and trembling". (But I guess he was writing that before AD 70 so it doesn't apply to us today.)
Again, you keep repeating the same straw man. The blood of bulls and goats could never actually take away sin. The blood of Christ--the Lamb of God--can.
Those who count the blood of Christ an unholy thing are those who "sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth" and "who trample the son of God underfoot" (Hebrews 10:26, 29) (Psst...Hebrews and John are different books). Also, that being said, although Hebrews was written to...well... Hebrews, we too can potentially sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth and thus face the same dangerous fate described in Hebrews 10.
Yep, there is the possibility that one will no longer continue. But that's up the believer--if he remains in Christ. If one is walking in the light then the blood of Christ is indeed a covering. If he isn't, that one needs to confess and repent so Christ will forgive him and cleanse him of all unrighteousness.
No, actually, according to the passages you quote, it is our own being holy that takes away or sin. (That is, unless those scriptures are being misunderstood or missapplied). Once again, the problem is that your system is a virtual copy of the old testament system, with "blood" having to be daily applied by human effort, or you're not atoned.</font>[/QUOTE]No, the blood is applied with faith, confession, and repentance, not walking in darkness. We can only be holy if we remain in Christ, submitting ourselves to Him so He can change us. If we spurn His grace and walk away, we cut ourselves from the life-giving Vine.
And here again, you're seizing upon words and tenses, but often, the texts are written as present tense, meaning that it is a present reality...</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, a present reality for those who are walking in the light, not for those who are walking in darkness.
Still, this assumes we are "out of Him" every time we sin, until we repent. This based on misreadings of the above scriptures.</font>[/QUOTE]If we are unrepentently walking in darkness, then we have no reason to assume that we are still in Him.
No, it means that we ultimately rejected God's grace.
Yeah, it does indeed mean you already have it...present tense. But you may not have it for long if you neglect or even reject it rather than working it out. If you leave Christ you no longer have salvation.
If we remain in Him and are saved it is by His grace. Apart from Him we can do nothing. BUT, if we leave Christ we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Again, we know nothing right now. We are creatures trapped in time. "if we continue" does not deal with now. Everything remains up in the air and uncertain.
Hence, you cannot say you "know" anything. On the other hand, once you begin following the Spirit's conviction, you can haughtily presume "OK; I'm back in Christ now, with all sin out of my life". But drawing uponn what you said yesterday, since the Spirit is constantly "forming us into the image of Christ", what that means, is as I had said earlier, there are many sins we are not even aware of, (or other deficiencies in our walk in Christ), which we become aware of as we grow, and become more sensitive to the Spirit's conviction. So if we are saved by being free of sin, then once again, nobody can be saved.
Yes, His "disciples". We are disciples in a looser sense, but He was speaking foremost to His immediate audience. You know, the ones who were also to persever until something that would occur in their lifetimes.
Yes, but now for those who have already repented (turned to Christ) there is no longer the constant danger of falling away.
In John 15, the "fruit" is a result of the "abiding" (that's why it's called "fruit"), and not the other way around.
I didn't say he was against all works in themselves, but as means of justification, yes. And it makes no difference if it is Jewish or Gentile "works". People think that by simply switching from the sabbath to sunday, and from the rest of the Law to a bunch of other gentile Church traditions, you are free from what Paul is condemning. All it is, is the same thing in disguise.
"Careful" means "to excercise thought". It's actually derived from the word "phren" meaning "mind". It is not saying you are doing it out of fear for eternity.
Both chapters, we see the context of these statements: 2:5, "the Day of wrath of the righteous judgment of God"; 11:12, "the fall of them". THese both refer initially to AD70. We apply them to our future, but these things are elsewhere said to be to occur shortly. In fact, all of this "cutting off" that was threatened to THEM-- what do you think that refers to? Dying and going to Hell? No, it was something that was going to happen in their lifetimes. Now, my position is what I call "dual fulfillment", meaning that there is still a resurrection and judgment in the future for us; but these statements I have seen are better understood as in the relevance of the immediate audience.
But that doesn't say He only becomes our advocate each time we "confess and repent" after each sin. Remember, the contrast is "confess" vs. "say we have no sin", not "confess" vs. "not saved".
"fear and Trembling", while literally meaning "afraid", "terror", etc. are also used in Gal.6:5 for servants to masters. So this obviously is a figurative sense of reverence. This opposed to "menpleasers", which would be more int he line of the [literal] "terror" and "merit" based service you seem to be advocating.
Not when you simply turn it into a mask for a system of works, that is basically the same as the old. The whole point of the blood of bulls not being able to take away sins is that that system was alla bout man's works, while Christ is God's work. You're just transferring the whole system over to the new covenant, changing some of the rituals, and replacing the animals with Christ. (and then criticize "dispensationalism", is if there were no such things as dispensations; which is what I was responding to). The New Covenant is a bit more than just a change of forms.
Again, v. 37, all of this warning is for something in "yet a little while". (Psst. Hebrews and John were both inspired by the same God!)
And that's the problem. Salvation is in our hands.
And just what do you mean by all of this talk of "walking in darkness", "leaving Him", etc. If you were just speaking of someone renouncing Christ, you would have a better argument, but you seem to say that we enter this state every time we sin until we "confess and repent". What is "neglect"? This gets into a comparison race where people look at others doing "less" and judge.
If we stay with Him, we can thank both ourselves and Him (for merely providing the "instructions". What kind of grace is this? How is He "changing" us? We're doing everything. What you have described is in Rom.4:4: "Not to him who works, the reward' is reckoned, not of grace, but of debt. Your line of reasoning is "If the wages of sin is death, then the wages of good works is eternal life, and the gift of God is the new sacrifice and the instructions on what to do".
No, Tazman, I don't.
If it were possible, I would have already done so. I have personally failed, been faithless, greived the HS, etc. I have asked myself (and the Lord), "am I saved" or "was I ever saved?" I have repented and prayed and worried. Obviously, this is not the way a Christian should be; I think the Lord would agree.
The Lord has finally led me to realize that, those many years ago when I was 12 years old, I was as saved as I ever would be. It is (or was) not because of me, but because of Him!
That, is the grace of God that one can not fall from, because there was nothing in me, of my own, that would merit such grace, then or now. I am finally living more faithfully and more consistantly in His will. Again, it is due to His grace that I am able to do anything He may consider of worth.
I realize all this probably sounds a bit anecdotal. Yet, this is the conclusion I have come to after much Bible study and prayer. I think one, at some point, has just to leave the question up to the Lord and allow His grace, mercy and justice bring peace to our hearts and minds.
Apostle Paul:
Please don't think these people were NOT christians. If that were the case then Paul being in tune in spirit would not ignorantly address unbelievers.
He simply warns them. It's that simple.
Just a thought
Paul thought that the Christians He knew could fallaway from Grace, IF they left Christ teaching to be justified by another teaching.
Please don't think these people were NOT christians. If that were the case then Paul being in tune in spirit would not ignorantly address unbelievers.
He simply warns them. It's that simple.
Just a thought
Paul also thought that some "Christians" were not "true" Christians...
2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Gal 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
God Bless!
Paul also thought that some "Christians" were not "true" Christians...
2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Gal 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
God Bless! </font>[/QUOTE]He never Said the folks in Cornith were not "True", but encourage them to examine themselves.
Also, he did not "Think" anything passage, He suggested something they should do. Simple. No share with me specific people he new as brother but rejected that would be easier to find.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Paul thought that the Christians He knew could fallaway from Grace, IF they left Christ teaching to be justified by another teaching.
Please don't think these people were NOT christians. If that were the case then Paul being in tune in spirit would not ignorantly address unbelievers.
He simply warns them. It's that simple.
Just a thought
1. You can not "fall" from a position you never had.
2. There is no such thing as "loster" for sinful lost humanity. Nor is there "Lost but still in grace". The bible never speaks to the lost about "better more improved ways to be lost" and the danger of failing to remain in such glorious lost states.
From: ”The Reign of the Servant Kings” by Dr. Joseph C. Dillow Th.D
The Golden Chain.
Rom. 8:28-30 describes an unbreakable chain consisting of five links:
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined, and these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
Note the terms, “whom” and “these also.” They link, as in a chain, the history of the same group which was foreknown, will also ultimately be glorified.
Foreknowledge
Predestination
Calling
Justification
Glorification
The two verse chain with its five-fold unbreakable links, “those…he also,” is a clear statement of the eternal security of the saints. Can a saved person lose his salvation? Only if it depends upon him. A belief in conditional security necessarily leads to consideration of what sin or sins are necessary to forfeit salvation. If we entertain even the remotest possibility that there is something we can do or not do which can nullify the value of the blood of Christ, we will focus our attention on our obedience, and not Christ’s blood. This is the way human nature works. (Prov. 14:12). If 99% of saved people cannot be lost, but 1% can, we have no sense of security ever. (Eph. 6:17a). We would be no different than anyone else (1 Cor. 10:13).
From Genesis to Revelation salvation is presented as a work of God. God the Father purposes, calls, justifies, and glorifies those who believe on Christ. God the Son became incarnate that He might be a Kinsman Redeemer and die a substitutionary death. He rose as a living Savior, both as Advocate and Intercessor, and as Head over all things in the church. God the Holy Spirit administers and executes the purpose of the Father and the redemption which the Son has wrought. Therefore, all three persons of the Godhead have their share in preserving to fruition that which God has determined.
Salvation depends upon God. Since it depends upon Him and not upon us, it cannot be lost. First of all, our eternal security …
Depends upon God the Father.
From eternity past God’s firm purpose has been established (Eph. 1:3-5). It is therefore clear that our eternal security depends, first of all…
Upon His Sovereign Purpose.
Predestined to glory. God’s eternal purpose cannot be defeated in the realization of all He intends, and bringing His redeemed to glory is a major aspect of His divine purpose.
” In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.”
“When anyone is born again of the Holy Spirit and justified in Christ, it is because God has formed, from eternity, the unchangeable purpose of that soul. The work of grace in it is the mere carrying out of that unchangeable purpose. As the plan is unchangeab;e, so must be its execution.” Robert Dabney, Lectures in Systematic Theology 1878.
We have an anchor within the veil. The writer of Hebrews makes this point in Heb. 6:17-20:
” Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
God wanted to show the unchangeable nature of His eternal purpose to give us an anchor within the veil and confirmed it with an oath. Now if He purposed before the foundation of the world to save His elect, His elect will be saved.
His solemn purpose. Now all that He has purposed, He unconditionally promises to His elect (John 6:40). Our salvation depends upon His promise (Rom. 4:16). Our eternal security depends not only upon His sovereign purpose, but also…
Upon His Infinite Power.
He is free to save us. If we can lose salvation, then we must conclude that there is some sin which is sufficiently serious to cause us to forfeit it. Perhaps adultery, drunkenness, etc. This assumes that we were less worthy of salvation after having committed this sin than before, and it reduced salvation down to human ability to merit it. Our eternal security does not depend upon our moral worthiness. If it did, none of us would be saved (Eph. 2:1-5; Rom. 5:8 ).
We all have imperfections. If salvation can be lost because of a high degree of imperfection, then we have to draw arbitrary lines of distinction between sins which are able to damn and those which are not. Who therefore is worthy? Not Paul, you, or this writer.
He has purposed to keep us saved. In no uncertain terms our Lord declares:
“ And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39-40
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:27-29
The phrase “shall never” is a double negative in the Greek. It is very emphatic.
Those who will not believe are not His sheep (vs. 26). However, the sheep of Christ’s are His past, present, and future sheep, and they shall all be glorified with Christ in heaven. John 17:19-24. (Unless of course you take the stand that the Father didn’t answer His prayer in John 17.) So our eternal security depends…
Upon His “Much More” Love.
The preservation of the saved flows from the free and unchangeable love of the Father. It was God’s love, not the Christian’s worthiness, which was the reason for His salvation in the first place. The Scripture make it plain that God saved no man because he observed some good, attractive, or meriting attribute in an individual sinner. Rather He saved us for reasons independent of us and outside us. He was motivated by His electing love, and not by observation of good in the sinner.
” And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Rom. 9:10-16.
Now, since the cause of the sinner’s salvation had nothing to do with any imagined merit or goodness in the sinner, neither does the preservation of the saints. Since God was not motivated to impart saving grace based on foreseen good works, the subsequent absence of those works should be no motive for Him to withdraw His saving grace. Eternal security is grounded in the Father’s faithfulness; it does not depend upon us. Rather it depends…
Upon His Answer to the Prayer of His Son
The saved are called many things in Scripture: saints, believers, sheep, Christians, partakers of the heavenly calling, etc. But the title most dear to the heart of Christ is repeated seven times in His high priestly prayer in John 17 “those whom You have given Me” (John 17:2,6,9,11-12,20,34). This phrase, according to John 17:20, includes all who would believe in Him through the ages. Even if the Father had no personal interest in keeping them saved, which He does, He must respond to the prayer of the Son, whose prayers are always answered (John 11:42). Jesus prays that we will be kept from hell (John 17:15) and that we will be with Him in heaven (John 17:20,24). Will not the prayers of the Son of God be answered?
The keeping is from perishing. Christ kept the chosen from perishing while He was on the earth, and now He asks the Father to keep us. Judas was not kept because he was never one whom the Father had given Him; he was to be the son of perdition (John 6:64).
It is thus the prayer of the Son of God to the Father that becomes one of the major factors in the believer’s security. To deny the safekeeping of the believer is to imply that the prayer of the Son of God will not be answered.
Not only has God the Father committed Himself by oath to guarantee the eternal security of His elect, but God the Son, through His active and passive obedience has made our final arrival into heaven certain. Our eternal security does not depend on us, but it…
Depends upon God the Son
The apostle Paul specifically raises the question of eternal security in his magnificent conclusion to Rom. 8:
What, then, shall we say in response to this? (8:31)
Paul has just finished presenting the “golden chain” (8:29-30). These five unbreakable links guarantee the believer’s eternal destiny. What shall we say in response to this “golden chain,” he now asks?
If God be for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all—how will He not also, along with Him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies (Rom. 8:31-33).
Paul’s argument is that, if God has already justified the man who believes in Jesus (Rom. 3:26; 5:9; 8:30), how can He or anyone else lay anything to the charge of His justified one? This justification comes from the imputed righteousness of Christ and is legally ours. It is not a subject of merit, and its loss cannot be a subject of demerit. Like a human father, God can and does correct His earthly children, but they always remain His children. The truth is that God, who justifies the ungodly (Rom. 4:5), will not and cannot contradict Himself by charging them with evil. To do so amounts to reversing their justification. Christ either died for our sins and has paid the penalty or He has not. The Arminian cannot have it both ways. God is the only one ultimately who could bring a charge against His elect, and as Paul says, God had already rendered His verdict…justified.
In his answer to the second question, Who is the one that condemns? Paul gives four answers. Each of the answers affirms the absolute security of the believer as unconditionally safe forever:
1. Christ died
2. He is risen
3. He advocates
4. He intercedes
Because of these four ministries of Christ, “nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God” (8:39), that is to cause us to forfeit our justification. Our eternal security also depends …
Upon His Substitutionary Death
Paul’s first answer is “Christ has died!” Who can condemn us, he says, if the penalty for our sins has already been paid? The greatest proof of eternal security is justification by faith. Justification refers to how God sees us, not the way we ourselves or others see us. Justification is “exterior” to us. It lies utterly outside us. The interior change is due to regeneration. Justification is forensic; it is entirely a legal matter. This is how God will judge us. We have been declared righteous. It was on the basis of Christ’s death for sin that we were saved in the first place, and is now on that basis that no one can condemn us.
In Col. 2:14 Paul refers to the accumulation of sin as a “certificate of debt.”
He forgave us all our sin, having cancelled the certificate of debt, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He took it away, nailing it to the cross. NASB
In the ancient world when a prisoner was incarcerated, a “certificate of dept” was nailed to the door of his cell. On the crime he had committed and the duration and nature of the punishment was written. When the weary prisoner had paid his debt, the prison guard came to his cell, tore down the certificate of debt, and wrote a Greek word across it, tetelestai, which means, paid in full. Then the cell door was opened and the man was free.
Recall our Lord’s last words from the cross. Just before He died He looked to heaven and screamed to the Father, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The Greek word is tetelestai, “It is pain in full.”
Either Christ’s death for sin actually paid the penalty or it did not. If it did, then the believer cannot be condemned for the very sins for which Christ died. All sins which we would ever commit were future to the death of Christ. If our sins are a ground of judgment against the believer, then Christ’s death was not propitious. If it was propitious, then our sin is no longer a ground of condemnation. (John 3:18 ). It is either one or the other.
However, when Christ paid the certificate of debt, it was not just for sins prior to our imprisonment, but for all sin. In contrast to the temporary atonement we might make for our own sin by imprisonment or that an OT priest might make by offering sacrifices, Christ made an eternal redemption.
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb. 10:12
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb. 10:14
When Christ our Priest finished His sacrificial work, it is declared that He “sat down.” The notion of a seated priest was foreign to the Jewish economy. In fact, there were no chairs in the tabernacle because a priest’s work is never done. But here is a Priest who has finisher his work. He sat down! There is nothing more to do as far as paying the penalty for sin.
Christ guaranteed our eternal security not only by means of His substitutionary death, but also by means of…
His Substitutionary Life
Paul does not bring in this aspect of Christ’s substitutionary work in Rom. 8:31-34, but it is the subject of a large body of Scripture. Christ was our substitute by His death, His so-called passive obedience, but He was also our substitute by His life, His so-called active obedience. We can and could do neither (Mt. 5:48; 19:26). But by His righteousness life Christ obeyed for us (forensicly speaking concerning justification).
There is a material cause and an instrumental cause of our salvation. The material cause is the active and passive obedience of Christ. The instrumental cause is our faith in Him. We are justified by His blood and saved by His life (Rom. 5:9-10). The righteousness which the Law required is imputed to us when we believe.
This is necessary because to merely atone for past sin would not be a complete salvation. It would save a man from hell but not make him fit for heaven. He would be delivered from the law’s punishment to a point, but not entitled to the law’s reward. The law required perfect obedience. The mediator then must both pay the law’s penalty, as well as obey the law in the man’s stead if he is to do for man everything that the law requires:
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom. 10:4
Christ died for us, but He also lives to intercede for us. Paul emphasizes this in Rom. 8:34 when he mentions that Christ is seated in heaven. Because of His work of intercession, our eternal security depends…
Upon His Present Session
Paul also bases our eternal security on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God. He is our Advocate (1 John 2:1) and Intercessor. This is sometimes called the present priestly ministry of Christ, or His present session.
Arminians have feared that this doctrine will tend to sin. John says in 1 John that there is a motivation in this doctrine not to sin. The heavenly courtroom is opened. Satan the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10), brings the sinning Christian before the tribunal. In his role as prosecuting attorney he presents his case. His accusations are correct. God is just. But Jesus points out that He has already paid he penalty for the sin. “Case dismissed!”
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21
In 1 John 2:2 we are told that this Righteous One is righteous because of His work for us, He is the propitiation for our sins. Thus, when the Father withholds condemnation, He is just. Christ’s advocacy is presented under the picture of His entrance into the heavenly sanctuary in Heb. 9:24.
It is obvious that while God will exercise parental discipline (Heb. 12:3-15), His child will never be condemned because our Advocate has satisfied the claims of justice.
And the former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, on the other hand, because He abides forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Not only does the eternal security of the believer depend upon God the Father and God the Son, but it also…
Depends upon God the Holy Spirit
The ministry of the Holy Spirit toward the believer in Christ is also devoted to keeping him saved forever. Three specific works of the Holy Spirit are related to the issue of eternal security. Our eternal security depends, first of all…
Upon His Ministry of Regeneration
The ministry of the Holy Spirit in regeneration results in the birth of a new man and the gift of eternal life. Both of these effects imply irreversible change and a permanent new condition.
Spiritual birth. When Jesus told Nicodemus, “you must be born again,” He taught that there are certain similarities between physical and spiritual birth. In each a new thing is created:
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
When this happens, a new thing is produced, the new creation:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17
This new creation is His workmanship and unites us with the Divine nature itself:
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:10
Can a man be unborn? Of course he can die, but this in no way reverses the fact of his son-ship and birth, or the love of his parents. Both physical and spiritual birth are onetime events with permanent consequences. Even physical death does not reverse either one. Our conscience existence never ends, and one day all will be raised from the dead (John 5:28-29).
The son of the human parent may rebel and disobey, but he is still of the nature of his parent. That never changes. God similarly has created a new man; He gave birth to all true believers. Even if we rebel and God disinherits us, as an earthly father can, but we will never cease to be His Sons.
There is nothing that can be done to reverse regeneration. Even if we decided we did not want to be God’s children any longer, it would do no good. It was God’s decision and not ours. Spiritual and physical birth cannot be reversed. Is it not obvious that one cannot give his physical birth back to his human parent? Neither can he give his spiritual birth back to his divine parent. If that were possible, then the gospel promise would be contradicted, and a person who had believed in God’s Son would perish and would not have everlasting life after all (John 3:16).
Eternal Life. Not only are we born into His family, but through regeneration we receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life implies endless existence. Robert Shank in his work, Life in the Son: A Study of the Doctrine of Perseverance, insists however, that eternal life can only be shared by men. Not permanently possessed by them (pg. 52). However, if a man has eternal existence, he will live endlessly. Eternal life is owner permanently the moment it is given. It is a characteristic of the new creation. To be given the gift of eternal life, according to Shank, is to be given the gift of living until you die and no longer live forever. This is absurdity. Jesus himself argued that eternal life was first of all the promise that a believer will rise from the dead after he physically dies John 11:25-26). But He also says that a Christian has eternal life right now and this means he cannot cease to live. Over and over again the Savior stresses the permanent nature of the gift of eternal life. He told the woman at the well that, after drinking the water He would give, she would “never thirst” (John 4:14). He said, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst” (John 6:35). Eternal life is permanent. “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out” (John 6:37). The Christian will “certainly not be cast out.” Second, our eternal life depends…
Upon His Baptizing Ministry
In 1 Cor. 12:13 Paul tells us:
”For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”NASB
Through the baptizing ministry of the Holy Spirit we are brought into organic union with Christ. Paul develops this further in Rom. 6:
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?” Rom. 6:3 NASB
In this famous passage on sanctification Paul explains that Christ’s history has become ours. His death to (our) sin has become ours. But there are permanent effects of this union:
Now if we have died with Christ we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Rom. 6:8-10 NASB
Because of the baptizing work of the Holy Spirit, uniting us to Christ, what is true of Him has become true of the believer. One thing that is true of Him is that He died to sin “once and for all” and that He will “never die again.” Paul specifically tells us that this is true of us as well:
”Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.” Rom. 6:11 NASB
But, finally, our eternal security depends…
Upon His Sealing Ministry
There are three references to the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit:
Who also sealed (sphragizo) us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge (arrabon). 2 Cor. 1:211-22 NASB
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, (note the Parable of the Sower) you were sealed (sphragizo) in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge (arrabon) of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, (His children) to the praise of His glory. Eph. 1:13-14
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed (sphragizo) for the day of redemption. Eph. 4:30
Two things stand out in these verses: (1) the Holy Spirit has sealed us, and (2) the Holy Spirit is the pledge.
The ancient practice of using seals is behind the figurative use of the word here. A seal is a mark of protection and ownership. The Greek word sphragizo is used of a stone being fastened with a seal to prevent its being moved from a position. In fact this was apparently the earliest method of distinguishing one’s property. The seal was engraved with a design or mark distinctive to the owner. The seal of ownership or protection was often made in soft wax with a signet ring. An impression was left on the wax signifying the owner of the thing sealed. When the Holy Spirit seals us, He presses the signet ring of our heavenly Father on our hearts of wax and leaves the permanent mark of ownership. We belong to Him (1 Cor. 6:20).
In Eph. 1:13-14 we are told that the Holy Spirit Himself is the seal. He is impressed upon us, so to speak. The Holy Spirit cannot be broken. In Eph. 4:30 we are told that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. This sealing ministry of the Spirit is forever and guarantees that we will arrive safely for the redemption of our bodies and entrance into heaven (Rom. 8:23).
We are forever protected from wrath (Rom. 5:9). We cannot lose our salvation anymore than we can break the seal. We would have to have greater power to lose salvation than the Holy Spirit has to keep us saved. About all Arminian Robert Shank can do is to weakly object, “But the Holy Spirit can do nothing for those who refuse His ministry” (pg 186). But He certainly can! That is precisely what these verses are saying. Shank lists various experiential ministries which the believer can refuse to accept as proof, such as filling (Eph. 5:18 ) and points out that we can grieve the Spirit (Eph. 4:30). But, those ministries are experiential ministries; sealing and pledging are not. Nowhere are believers asked to allow the Spirit to seal them or to become their pledge. These are things which happen to all believers at the point in time they believed, “having also believed, you were also sealed.” Eph. 1:13
Along with our seal, the Holy Spirit is our pledge. The word refers to a first installment, down payment, deposit, pledge which obligates the contracting party to make further payments unto full purchase. It is a legal concept from the language of business and trade:
1. An installment, with which a man secures a legal claim upon a thing as yet unpaid for.
2. An earnest, an advance payment, by which a contract becomes valid in law.
3. A pledge in one passage (Gen. 38:17)
Similarly, in Rom. 8:23 Paul speaks of the “first fruits” of the Spirit, a down payment to be followed by more. We wait for the redemption of our bodies. We are sealed unto that day.
God, so to speak, has legally bound Himself to our eternal security. The choice of the legal term arrabon (“earnest”) implies that God has legally and morally obligated Himself to bring His children to heaven. A down payment was a statement of one’s honor, one’s word. If one person who was born again in Christ ever fails to enter into heaven when he dies, then God has broken His pledge. No human conditions are mentioned.
Conclusion. If our eternal security depends upon anything in us, it is certain that it is not secure. However, the Scriptures that our final entrance into heaven is guaranteed by the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since it depends upon an infinite Person, who is faithful and true, it is inconceivable that the salvation of any child of God could ever be lost.
The Golden Chain.
Rom. 8:28-30 describes an unbreakable chain consisting of five links:
“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined, and these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
Note the terms, “whom” and “these also.” They link, as in a chain, the history of the same group which was foreknown, will also ultimately be glorified.
Foreknowledge
Predestination
Calling
Justification
Glorification
The two verse chain with its five-fold unbreakable links, “those…he also,” is a clear statement of the eternal security of the saints. Can a saved person lose his salvation? Only if it depends upon him. A belief in conditional security necessarily leads to consideration of what sin or sins are necessary to forfeit salvation. If we entertain even the remotest possibility that there is something we can do or not do which can nullify the value of the blood of Christ, we will focus our attention on our obedience, and not Christ’s blood. This is the way human nature works. (Prov. 14:12). If 99% of saved people cannot be lost, but 1% can, we have no sense of security ever. (Eph. 6:17a). We would be no different than anyone else (1 Cor. 10:13).
From Genesis to Revelation salvation is presented as a work of God. God the Father purposes, calls, justifies, and glorifies those who believe on Christ. God the Son became incarnate that He might be a Kinsman Redeemer and die a substitutionary death. He rose as a living Savior, both as Advocate and Intercessor, and as Head over all things in the church. God the Holy Spirit administers and executes the purpose of the Father and the redemption which the Son has wrought. Therefore, all three persons of the Godhead have their share in preserving to fruition that which God has determined.
Salvation depends upon God. Since it depends upon Him and not upon us, it cannot be lost. First of all, our eternal security …
Depends upon God the Father.
From eternity past God’s firm purpose has been established (Eph. 1:3-5). It is therefore clear that our eternal security depends, first of all…
Upon His Sovereign Purpose.
Predestined to glory. God’s eternal purpose cannot be defeated in the realization of all He intends, and bringing His redeemed to glory is a major aspect of His divine purpose.
” In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.”
“When anyone is born again of the Holy Spirit and justified in Christ, it is because God has formed, from eternity, the unchangeable purpose of that soul. The work of grace in it is the mere carrying out of that unchangeable purpose. As the plan is unchangeab;e, so must be its execution.” Robert Dabney, Lectures in Systematic Theology 1878.
We have an anchor within the veil. The writer of Hebrews makes this point in Heb. 6:17-20:
” Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
God wanted to show the unchangeable nature of His eternal purpose to give us an anchor within the veil and confirmed it with an oath. Now if He purposed before the foundation of the world to save His elect, His elect will be saved.
His solemn purpose. Now all that He has purposed, He unconditionally promises to His elect (John 6:40). Our salvation depends upon His promise (Rom. 4:16). Our eternal security depends not only upon His sovereign purpose, but also…
Upon His Infinite Power.
He is free to save us. If we can lose salvation, then we must conclude that there is some sin which is sufficiently serious to cause us to forfeit it. Perhaps adultery, drunkenness, etc. This assumes that we were less worthy of salvation after having committed this sin than before, and it reduced salvation down to human ability to merit it. Our eternal security does not depend upon our moral worthiness. If it did, none of us would be saved (Eph. 2:1-5; Rom. 5:8 ).
We all have imperfections. If salvation can be lost because of a high degree of imperfection, then we have to draw arbitrary lines of distinction between sins which are able to damn and those which are not. Who therefore is worthy? Not Paul, you, or this writer.
He has purposed to keep us saved. In no uncertain terms our Lord declares:
“ And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39-40
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:27-29
The phrase “shall never” is a double negative in the Greek. It is very emphatic.
Those who will not believe are not His sheep (vs. 26). However, the sheep of Christ’s are His past, present, and future sheep, and they shall all be glorified with Christ in heaven. John 17:19-24. (Unless of course you take the stand that the Father didn’t answer His prayer in John 17.) So our eternal security depends…
Upon His “Much More” Love.
The preservation of the saved flows from the free and unchangeable love of the Father. It was God’s love, not the Christian’s worthiness, which was the reason for His salvation in the first place. The Scripture make it plain that God saved no man because he observed some good, attractive, or meriting attribute in an individual sinner. Rather He saved us for reasons independent of us and outside us. He was motivated by His electing love, and not by observation of good in the sinner.
” And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Rom. 9:10-16.
Now, since the cause of the sinner’s salvation had nothing to do with any imagined merit or goodness in the sinner, neither does the preservation of the saints. Since God was not motivated to impart saving grace based on foreseen good works, the subsequent absence of those works should be no motive for Him to withdraw His saving grace. Eternal security is grounded in the Father’s faithfulness; it does not depend upon us. Rather it depends…
Upon His Answer to the Prayer of His Son
The saved are called many things in Scripture: saints, believers, sheep, Christians, partakers of the heavenly calling, etc. But the title most dear to the heart of Christ is repeated seven times in His high priestly prayer in John 17 “those whom You have given Me” (John 17:2,6,9,11-12,20,34). This phrase, according to John 17:20, includes all who would believe in Him through the ages. Even if the Father had no personal interest in keeping them saved, which He does, He must respond to the prayer of the Son, whose prayers are always answered (John 11:42). Jesus prays that we will be kept from hell (John 17:15) and that we will be with Him in heaven (John 17:20,24). Will not the prayers of the Son of God be answered?
The keeping is from perishing. Christ kept the chosen from perishing while He was on the earth, and now He asks the Father to keep us. Judas was not kept because he was never one whom the Father had given Him; he was to be the son of perdition (John 6:64).
It is thus the prayer of the Son of God to the Father that becomes one of the major factors in the believer’s security. To deny the safekeeping of the believer is to imply that the prayer of the Son of God will not be answered.
Not only has God the Father committed Himself by oath to guarantee the eternal security of His elect, but God the Son, through His active and passive obedience has made our final arrival into heaven certain. Our eternal security does not depend on us, but it…
Depends upon God the Son
The apostle Paul specifically raises the question of eternal security in his magnificent conclusion to Rom. 8:
What, then, shall we say in response to this? (8:31)
Paul has just finished presenting the “golden chain” (8:29-30). These five unbreakable links guarantee the believer’s eternal destiny. What shall we say in response to this “golden chain,” he now asks?
If God be for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up for us all—how will He not also, along with Him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies (Rom. 8:31-33).
Paul’s argument is that, if God has already justified the man who believes in Jesus (Rom. 3:26; 5:9; 8:30), how can He or anyone else lay anything to the charge of His justified one? This justification comes from the imputed righteousness of Christ and is legally ours. It is not a subject of merit, and its loss cannot be a subject of demerit. Like a human father, God can and does correct His earthly children, but they always remain His children. The truth is that God, who justifies the ungodly (Rom. 4:5), will not and cannot contradict Himself by charging them with evil. To do so amounts to reversing their justification. Christ either died for our sins and has paid the penalty or He has not. The Arminian cannot have it both ways. God is the only one ultimately who could bring a charge against His elect, and as Paul says, God had already rendered His verdict…justified.
In his answer to the second question, Who is the one that condemns? Paul gives four answers. Each of the answers affirms the absolute security of the believer as unconditionally safe forever:
1. Christ died
2. He is risen
3. He advocates
4. He intercedes
Because of these four ministries of Christ, “nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God” (8:39), that is to cause us to forfeit our justification. Our eternal security also depends …
Upon His Substitutionary Death
Paul’s first answer is “Christ has died!” Who can condemn us, he says, if the penalty for our sins has already been paid? The greatest proof of eternal security is justification by faith. Justification refers to how God sees us, not the way we ourselves or others see us. Justification is “exterior” to us. It lies utterly outside us. The interior change is due to regeneration. Justification is forensic; it is entirely a legal matter. This is how God will judge us. We have been declared righteous. It was on the basis of Christ’s death for sin that we were saved in the first place, and is now on that basis that no one can condemn us.
In Col. 2:14 Paul refers to the accumulation of sin as a “certificate of debt.”
He forgave us all our sin, having cancelled the certificate of debt, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He took it away, nailing it to the cross. NASB
In the ancient world when a prisoner was incarcerated, a “certificate of dept” was nailed to the door of his cell. On the crime he had committed and the duration and nature of the punishment was written. When the weary prisoner had paid his debt, the prison guard came to his cell, tore down the certificate of debt, and wrote a Greek word across it, tetelestai, which means, paid in full. Then the cell door was opened and the man was free.
Recall our Lord’s last words from the cross. Just before He died He looked to heaven and screamed to the Father, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The Greek word is tetelestai, “It is pain in full.”
Either Christ’s death for sin actually paid the penalty or it did not. If it did, then the believer cannot be condemned for the very sins for which Christ died. All sins which we would ever commit were future to the death of Christ. If our sins are a ground of judgment against the believer, then Christ’s death was not propitious. If it was propitious, then our sin is no longer a ground of condemnation. (John 3:18 ). It is either one or the other.
However, when Christ paid the certificate of debt, it was not just for sins prior to our imprisonment, but for all sin. In contrast to the temporary atonement we might make for our own sin by imprisonment or that an OT priest might make by offering sacrifices, Christ made an eternal redemption.
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb. 9:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb. 10:12
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb. 10:14
When Christ our Priest finished His sacrificial work, it is declared that He “sat down.” The notion of a seated priest was foreign to the Jewish economy. In fact, there were no chairs in the tabernacle because a priest’s work is never done. But here is a Priest who has finisher his work. He sat down! There is nothing more to do as far as paying the penalty for sin.
Christ guaranteed our eternal security not only by means of His substitutionary death, but also by means of…
His Substitutionary Life
Paul does not bring in this aspect of Christ’s substitutionary work in Rom. 8:31-34, but it is the subject of a large body of Scripture. Christ was our substitute by His death, His so-called passive obedience, but He was also our substitute by His life, His so-called active obedience. We can and could do neither (Mt. 5:48; 19:26). But by His righteousness life Christ obeyed for us (forensicly speaking concerning justification).
There is a material cause and an instrumental cause of our salvation. The material cause is the active and passive obedience of Christ. The instrumental cause is our faith in Him. We are justified by His blood and saved by His life (Rom. 5:9-10). The righteousness which the Law required is imputed to us when we believe.
This is necessary because to merely atone for past sin would not be a complete salvation. It would save a man from hell but not make him fit for heaven. He would be delivered from the law’s punishment to a point, but not entitled to the law’s reward. The law required perfect obedience. The mediator then must both pay the law’s penalty, as well as obey the law in the man’s stead if he is to do for man everything that the law requires:
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom. 10:4
Christ died for us, but He also lives to intercede for us. Paul emphasizes this in Rom. 8:34 when he mentions that Christ is seated in heaven. Because of His work of intercession, our eternal security depends…
Upon His Present Session
Paul also bases our eternal security on the fact that Jesus rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God. He is our Advocate (1 John 2:1) and Intercessor. This is sometimes called the present priestly ministry of Christ, or His present session.
Arminians have feared that this doctrine will tend to sin. John says in 1 John that there is a motivation in this doctrine not to sin. The heavenly courtroom is opened. Satan the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10), brings the sinning Christian before the tribunal. In his role as prosecuting attorney he presents his case. His accusations are correct. God is just. But Jesus points out that He has already paid he penalty for the sin. “Case dismissed!”
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21
In 1 John 2:2 we are told that this Righteous One is righteous because of His work for us, He is the propitiation for our sins. Thus, when the Father withholds condemnation, He is just. Christ’s advocacy is presented under the picture of His entrance into the heavenly sanctuary in Heb. 9:24.
It is obvious that while God will exercise parental discipline (Heb. 12:3-15), His child will never be condemned because our Advocate has satisfied the claims of justice.
And the former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, on the other hand, because He abides forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Not only does the eternal security of the believer depend upon God the Father and God the Son, but it also…
Depends upon God the Holy Spirit
The ministry of the Holy Spirit toward the believer in Christ is also devoted to keeping him saved forever. Three specific works of the Holy Spirit are related to the issue of eternal security. Our eternal security depends, first of all…
Upon His Ministry of Regeneration
The ministry of the Holy Spirit in regeneration results in the birth of a new man and the gift of eternal life. Both of these effects imply irreversible change and a permanent new condition.
Spiritual birth. When Jesus told Nicodemus, “you must be born again,” He taught that there are certain similarities between physical and spiritual birth. In each a new thing is created:
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
When this happens, a new thing is produced, the new creation:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17
This new creation is His workmanship and unites us with the Divine nature itself:
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:10
Can a man be unborn? Of course he can die, but this in no way reverses the fact of his son-ship and birth, or the love of his parents. Both physical and spiritual birth are onetime events with permanent consequences. Even physical death does not reverse either one. Our conscience existence never ends, and one day all will be raised from the dead (John 5:28-29).
The son of the human parent may rebel and disobey, but he is still of the nature of his parent. That never changes. God similarly has created a new man; He gave birth to all true believers. Even if we rebel and God disinherits us, as an earthly father can, but we will never cease to be His Sons.
There is nothing that can be done to reverse regeneration. Even if we decided we did not want to be God’s children any longer, it would do no good. It was God’s decision and not ours. Spiritual and physical birth cannot be reversed. Is it not obvious that one cannot give his physical birth back to his human parent? Neither can he give his spiritual birth back to his divine parent. If that were possible, then the gospel promise would be contradicted, and a person who had believed in God’s Son would perish and would not have everlasting life after all (John 3:16).
Eternal Life. Not only are we born into His family, but through regeneration we receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life implies endless existence. Robert Shank in his work, Life in the Son: A Study of the Doctrine of Perseverance, insists however, that eternal life can only be shared by men. Not permanently possessed by them (pg. 52). However, if a man has eternal existence, he will live endlessly. Eternal life is owner permanently the moment it is given. It is a characteristic of the new creation. To be given the gift of eternal life, according to Shank, is to be given the gift of living until you die and no longer live forever. This is absurdity. Jesus himself argued that eternal life was first of all the promise that a believer will rise from the dead after he physically dies John 11:25-26). But He also says that a Christian has eternal life right now and this means he cannot cease to live. Over and over again the Savior stresses the permanent nature of the gift of eternal life. He told the woman at the well that, after drinking the water He would give, she would “never thirst” (John 4:14). He said, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst” (John 6:35). Eternal life is permanent. “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out” (John 6:37). The Christian will “certainly not be cast out.” Second, our eternal life depends…
Upon His Baptizing Ministry
In 1 Cor. 12:13 Paul tells us:
”For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”NASB
Through the baptizing ministry of the Holy Spirit we are brought into organic union with Christ. Paul develops this further in Rom. 6:
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?” Rom. 6:3 NASB
In this famous passage on sanctification Paul explains that Christ’s history has become ours. His death to (our) sin has become ours. But there are permanent effects of this union:
Now if we have died with Christ we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Rom. 6:8-10 NASB
Because of the baptizing work of the Holy Spirit, uniting us to Christ, what is true of Him has become true of the believer. One thing that is true of Him is that He died to sin “once and for all” and that He will “never die again.” Paul specifically tells us that this is true of us as well:
”Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.” Rom. 6:11 NASB
But, finally, our eternal security depends…
Upon His Sealing Ministry
There are three references to the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit:
Who also sealed (sphragizo) us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge (arrabon). 2 Cor. 1:211-22 NASB
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, (note the Parable of the Sower) you were sealed (sphragizo) in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge (arrabon) of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, (His children) to the praise of His glory. Eph. 1:13-14
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed (sphragizo) for the day of redemption. Eph. 4:30
Two things stand out in these verses: (1) the Holy Spirit has sealed us, and (2) the Holy Spirit is the pledge.
The ancient practice of using seals is behind the figurative use of the word here. A seal is a mark of protection and ownership. The Greek word sphragizo is used of a stone being fastened with a seal to prevent its being moved from a position. In fact this was apparently the earliest method of distinguishing one’s property. The seal was engraved with a design or mark distinctive to the owner. The seal of ownership or protection was often made in soft wax with a signet ring. An impression was left on the wax signifying the owner of the thing sealed. When the Holy Spirit seals us, He presses the signet ring of our heavenly Father on our hearts of wax and leaves the permanent mark of ownership. We belong to Him (1 Cor. 6:20).
In Eph. 1:13-14 we are told that the Holy Spirit Himself is the seal. He is impressed upon us, so to speak. The Holy Spirit cannot be broken. In Eph. 4:30 we are told that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. This sealing ministry of the Spirit is forever and guarantees that we will arrive safely for the redemption of our bodies and entrance into heaven (Rom. 8:23).
We are forever protected from wrath (Rom. 5:9). We cannot lose our salvation anymore than we can break the seal. We would have to have greater power to lose salvation than the Holy Spirit has to keep us saved. About all Arminian Robert Shank can do is to weakly object, “But the Holy Spirit can do nothing for those who refuse His ministry” (pg 186). But He certainly can! That is precisely what these verses are saying. Shank lists various experiential ministries which the believer can refuse to accept as proof, such as filling (Eph. 5:18 ) and points out that we can grieve the Spirit (Eph. 4:30). But, those ministries are experiential ministries; sealing and pledging are not. Nowhere are believers asked to allow the Spirit to seal them or to become their pledge. These are things which happen to all believers at the point in time they believed, “having also believed, you were also sealed.” Eph. 1:13
Along with our seal, the Holy Spirit is our pledge. The word refers to a first installment, down payment, deposit, pledge which obligates the contracting party to make further payments unto full purchase. It is a legal concept from the language of business and trade:
1. An installment, with which a man secures a legal claim upon a thing as yet unpaid for.
2. An earnest, an advance payment, by which a contract becomes valid in law.
3. A pledge in one passage (Gen. 38:17)
Similarly, in Rom. 8:23 Paul speaks of the “first fruits” of the Spirit, a down payment to be followed by more. We wait for the redemption of our bodies. We are sealed unto that day.
God, so to speak, has legally bound Himself to our eternal security. The choice of the legal term arrabon (“earnest”) implies that God has legally and morally obligated Himself to bring His children to heaven. A down payment was a statement of one’s honor, one’s word. If one person who was born again in Christ ever fails to enter into heaven when he dies, then God has broken His pledge. No human conditions are mentioned.
Conclusion. If our eternal security depends upon anything in us, it is certain that it is not secure. However, the Scriptures that our final entrance into heaven is guaranteed by the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since it depends upon an infinite Person, who is faithful and true, it is inconceivable that the salvation of any child of God could ever be lost.