Why can't men believe this outrageous truth?

[David Lamb]

The Five points of the Remonstrance did not even equate to TULIP; they were in a completely different order and formulation.

Not only that, the acronym TULIP only works in English, not Dutch (Dort or Dordrecht is in the Netherlands) or French (Calvin's native tongue).

 

[Crabtownboy]

1. Because some have not heard the message.
2. Because some want to be "god" in their own lives and will not submit to God in any belief system.
3. Because some use their free-will to refuse to believe.

There are probably other reasons as well.

 

[freeatlast]

I was talking to someone recently about the ability of men to willingly believe the gospel's appeal to be reconciled to God and he made the argument:

"People can't just believe the outrageous claims of the gospel without help." (meaning the effectual work of regeneration)

So here is my question: Why is an "outrageous" truth impossible to believe while an outrageous lie isn't?

For example, why can someone believe Muhammed's lies, but not Jesus' truths? Why can people believe the Koran "without help" but not the Bible?

Are lies more powerful than truth?

Can someone explain?

I think the problem here is in the word "believe." I believed it all, way before I was saved. I could even tell others that the story about Jesus was all true and I did not have a single doubt. In fact I knew it was true. I just had a problem of putting that belief into practice (faith). I knew I needed to put it into practice, but I just could not seem to do it. That made me fear deeply. I knew if I died I would split hell wide open. So I prayed to the Lord and asked Him to give me the time I needed to do what I needed to do.
He did and He was very gentle about it. Over a period of about 3 or 4 months every day the Spirit was dealing with me, wooing me to come to the Lord. The whole time satan was giving me reasons not to. It was a real battle. Finally I came, but not without the help of the Spirit and even that was a battle to the end.

I have also known of people who are into witchcraft and demonism. One man said that he knew the story about Jesus was true, but Jesus would not give him the power he wanted and satan did so he would not turn to the Lord. He believed the account, but refused to repent. So again it depends on what is meant by "believing."
So I believe that a person can believe the truth on an intellectual level, even without any doubt, but that they cannot believe unto faith without the working of the Spirit.
In the case of false religions people can believe the lie and be absolutely convinced even unto dying for their beliefs, but their belief system is never a faith based system as that can only come about through the Spirit. This is why so many in the church are lost. They honestly believe and would fight for what they believe, even getting angry when confronted, but they are lacking faith and are not saved.
matt. 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[ituttut]

Of course

I was talking to someone recently about the ability of men to willingly believe the gospel's appeal to be reconciled to God and he made the argument:

"People can't just believe the outrageous claims of the gospel without help." (meaning the effectual work of regeneration)

So here is my question: Why is an "outrageous" truth impossible to believe while an outrageous lie isn't?

For example, why can someone believe Muhammed's lies, but not Jesus' truths? Why can people believe the Koran "without help" but not the Bible?

Are lies more powerful than truth?

Can someone explain?

Of course Lies ARE more powerful. That is why we die.

 

[Skandelon]

Of course Lies ARE more powerful. That is why we die.

So, when the bible says things like "the gospel is the power of God unto salvation," "the truth will set you free," "sharper than any double edged sword," etc etc, it should be taken to mean that lies are more powerful than these truths? Why?

 

[saturneptune]

We weren't discussing the salvation experience, but total depravity which you initially stated
How is that reconciled to what God said to Cain?

When the Lord and McCain were through talking to each other, do you think Cain was reconciled to the Lord?

 

[Rippon]

When the Lord and McCain were through talking to each other, do you think Cain was reconciled to the Lord?

I didn't know Cain was Scottish.

 

[webdog]

When the Lord and McCain were through talking to each other, do you think Cain was reconciled to the Lord?

No. Cain (being totally depraved) had the opportunity and ability to do what was right and pleasing to the Lord, though, which flies in the face of total depravity as defined by calvinists. Cain had a lot of ability for a spiritual corpse.

 

[ituttut]

So, when the bible says things like "the gospel is the power of God unto salvation," "the truth will set you free," "sharper than any double edged sword," etc etc, it should be taken to mean that lies are more powerful than these truths? Why?

Your original question was "So here is my question: Why is an "outrageous" truth impossible to believe while an outrageous lie isn't?"

My anser was "Of course Lies ARE more powerful. That is why we die".

First things first so to explain that reply to you.

We all are appointed to DIE, because an OUTRAGEOUS LIE was believed. Why? For it is more appealing for immediate gratification, and what we think is our future. A choice was made for us, Long ago. And that is why we DIE. It all goes to our Mom who believed a Lie, and our Dad was influenced by one of his OWN Kind. We may not wish to admit, but Lucifer is one of our own kind, and used what was at hand to influence.

Genesis tells us this when the Serpent made his pitch to the woman. The Serpent evidently flattered her, she becoming enamored with him. After this the Serpent quickly struck with the LIE. She believed HIM, and not God, and then the Serpent told her the truth, to get her to do what he wanted her to do (Genesis 3:4-5).

So to me, we do believe the truth, but we WANT TO BELIEVE THE LIE, FOR WE DON'T THINK IT WILL HURT, for now we know Good, and Evil. But we really don't, for we see others of our kind do things that look good, taste good, and so much fun can be had doing those things. So the natural man being filled with Evil desires it more than being Good. The woman was Good, and didn't know Evil when she saw it. But she not being the head of the body, the Serpent attacked the lower part of the body, knowing the head would want to JOIN HER, for they were ONE. (This is not the time, or place to expand on this obvious comparison with the Body of Christ).


She took the bait, being fooled into believing the LIE, because what she saw was to her liking, would make her wise, gimme, gimme for my tummy, and I don't care if tomorrow ever comes.

To your second question I choose Jesus the Christ, for He is the Best for Me. He is my desire. So very, very simple it is truly absurd to the world.