Why China Does Capitalism Better Than the U.S.

[Crabtownboy]

A most interesting article. When I was working in China in 2000 I would tease my Chinese friends telling them, "In some ways China is more capitalistic than America."

If I live another decade it will be interesting to see if China's next generation of leaders are as adept as their current leaders in making decision on their economy. The next generation of leaders in China are going to face some tremendous internal social problems. Some of those problems have shown their face in their universities.

One of the great ironies revealed by the global recession that began in 2008 is that Communist Party-ruled China may be doing a better job managing capitalism's crisis than the democratically elected U.S. government. Beijing's stimulus spending was larger, infinitely more effective at overcoming the slowdown, and directed at laying the infrastructural tracks for further economic expansion.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2043235,00.html#ixzz1BZPHEbQO

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

China is *NOT* doing "Capitalism" they are doing State Sponsered Business...

There is a *very* big difference...

First, those that create and work in the Chinese system, unless they are the political elite, share in very little of the benefits of their creativity.

The "state" owns it all, the patents and results, everything...

Not Captialism at all!

 

[Crabtownboy]

China is *NOT* doing "Capitalism" they are doing State Sponsered Business...

There is a *very* big difference...

First, those that create and work in the Chinese system, unless they are the political elite, share in very little of the benefits of their creativity.

The "state" owns it all, the patents and results, everything...

Not Captialism at all!

Your understanding of China was pretty accurate until Deng Xioping instituted economic reforms. Those have been tweaked as time passed. The old state run industries are almost all gone. Capitalism has taken over and China has benefited greatly. China was a basket case until the reforms were instituted. Deng did away with the two currency policy and allowed private companies to start-up and make a profit. This led to the founding of the Chinese stock market. Joint venture companies were impossible before Deng. They are the driving force of the Chinese economic system now and are quite important to many American companies ... just ask WalMart.

Even politically there has been change. The government does not mettle in an individual personal lives nearly to the extent it did under Mao. The old block captains no longer exist. An article in Foreign Policy says it better than I am able to.

The Chinese Communist Party has recognized that such intensive interference in people's personal lives is a liability in building a modern economy. Under the reforms kick-started by Deng Xiaoping in the late 1970s, the party has gradually removed itself from the private lives of all but the most recalcitrant of dissidents. The waning in the 1980s and 1990s of the old cradle-to-grave system of state workplaces, health care, and other social services also dismantled an intricate system of controls centered on neighborhood committees, which among other purposes were used for snooping on ordinary citizens.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/5_myths_about_the_chinese_communist_party?page=0,1

The government does manipulate its currency. We do the same, but not nearly to the same extent.

What the central government in Beijing will not tolerate is dissent. They come down quickly and hard on anything or anyone they see as a political threat. As long as a person is not viewed as a dissenter he is pretty well left alone.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

China is *NOT* doing "Capitalism" they are doing State Sponsered Business...

There is a *very* big difference...

First, those that create and work in the Chinese system, unless they are the political elite, share in very little of the benefits of their creativity.

The "state" owns it all, the patents and results, everything...

Not Captialism at all!

Remember C.T.Boy telling us we didn't know how socialism works. This is sure ironic.

But I don't expect liberals to understand how capitalism works.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Remember C.T.Boy telling us we didn't know how socialism works. This is sure ironic.

But I don't expect liberals to understand how capitalism works.

Instead of simply making a snide remark please enlighten us on your understand of the economic system operating within China today.

If the Chinese economic system is socialist or communist why is it being so successful? And if it is so successful why do you oppose it as a system? I am not speaking of a political system, or civil freedoms but an economic system.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Perhaps now C.T.Boy is going to hold up their health care system as a model for us. Or adopt their "fair" labor laws.

Capitalism doesn't treat paople the way China's system does.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index...lations-in-china-wheres-michael-moore-on-this


And yes, I consider a 9-month old article current.

 

[targus]

If the Chinese economic system is socialist or communist why is it being so successful? And if it is so successful why do you oppose it as a system? I am not speaking of a political system, or civil freedoms but an economic system.

You can't remove civil freedoms from the analysis when judging an economic system.

And what happended to your concern about man made global warming?

Shouldn't that be an important consideration in your admiration of China's economy?

 

[Crabtownboy]

You can't remove civil freedoms from the anaysis when judging an economic system.

Why not? We are not talking about civil rights, but about economic policy, how companies are run and economic policies of the government. The Chinese Communist Party saw that when capitalism and socialism is compared as an economic system capitalism wins hands down. So they changed the economic policy.

There is no longer competition between socialism and capitalism, capitalism has won. It has different faces in different places, but capitalism has won!

The competition now, the big question now is between democracy and authoritarianism.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

C.T.Boy can. As long as big brother benefits, who cares about the people they step on.

How many millions of starved Chinese children are ok with you, C.T.Boy ?

 

[targus]

Why not? The two are not mutually exclusive. Explain your thinking more fully please.

As your article pointed out - if China decides that they want to build a dam requiring the forced relocation of a million people - they just go ahead and do it.

Is that the kind of economic system that you admire?

One in which personal liberties and rights are second to the whims of the government economic planners?

 

[Crabtownboy]

As your article pointed out - if China decides that they want to build a dam requiring the forced relocation of a million people - they just go ahead and do it.

Is that the kind of economic system that you admire?

One in which personal liberties and rights are second to the whims of the government economic planners?

And our government does not do the same thing? Try opposing a new highway or bridge, etc.

And, sadly, the Three Gorges Dam, was something that Mao wanted and it was the old hard liners in the 1990's that pushed it through, not the new generation. It was already underway in 1995 when I worked in Xi'an for 6 months. The current leaders were just youngsters in the Party at that time. Now they are stuck with it and the problems is has caused.

 

[targus]

And our government does not do the same thing? Try opposing a new highway or bridge, etc.

Did you even read your own article?

Oppose the government in China and go straight to prison or face execution.

There is no vote.

This is no recourse.

There are no lawyers or courts to go to.

There are no injunctions to halt projects.

There is no free press or court of public opinon to pressure the government to change it's mind.

If the conditions were the same in the US you would be screaming bloody murder. (Uh oh - am I in violation of the new civility laws?)

What happened to your concern about global warming?

If companies in the US were starting up a bunch of coal burning plants you would be having a stroke.

But when China is doing it you admire them because they are doing captialism better !!!

 

[Crabtownboy]

Did you even read your own article?

Yes and I know that economic policy and political policy are not the same thing.

Oppose the government in China and go straight to prison or face execution.

That is not economic policy.

There is no vote.

This is no recourse.

There are no lawyers or courts to go to.

There are no injunctions to halt projects.

There is no free press or court of public opinon to pressure the government to change it's mind.

You are addressing the now big question about which is better in the long run, democracy or authoritarianism? I believe democracy is better, much better. When I was in China I was always very thankful that I had a US passport and knew I would go home in time.

If the conditions were the same in the US you would be screaming bloody murder. (Uh oh - am I in violation of the new civility laws?)

Nick backhand there. Not very civil, but sneaky. :laugh:

What happened to your concern about global warming?

Still there and I wish China would do more. They do need to do much to clean up their environment! The pollution is quite bad there. But to do that would negatively impact their economy and so for the most part they have done little. They have been building lots of electric generating windmills and that is clean.

If companies in the US were starting up a bunch of coal burning plants you would be having a stroke.

And isn't it good we have the freedom to do so?

But when China is doing it you admire them because they are doing captialism better !!!

This is either poor logic or you do not understand that economic policy and political policy are not one and the same thing.

You are confusing political politics with economic policy. They are not the same. I said in an earlier post that they come down fast and hard on anything and anyone they view as a political opponent. I have never said I admire their government and its political policies nor the way they treat dissenters.

 

[rbell]

What a monumentally ignorant viewpoint. Quasar-ignorant. Meta-ignorant.

I have friends and former youth who have served as "missionaries" (Not officially, mind you), in China. Several in the last few years.

They laughed at this.

But hey...at least we know Crabby's desire for the US, don't we?

Sad, it is...

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Hundreds of workers at a factory in Wuhan, Hubei, clashed for hours with police in anti-riot gear. They were trying to prevent their company boss from fleeing aided by police before back wages were paid. In the meantime, the authorities ban media from reporting public unrest or social problems that might tarnish China’s image.
Wuhan 3541 Garment General Factory made uniforms for the People’s Liberation Army, but went bust in 2007, laying off more than 4,000 workers. Since then, they have been waiting for back wages.
Quoting a local source, Radio Free Asia reported that protesters each want 30,000 to 40,000 yuan of housing subsidy and the moving allowance, which the factory had promised to pay, as well as an accounting on what will happen to the factory.
On Monday, more than 1,500 workers blocked streets around the factory, calling for the company boss to pay them after so many years. They also tried to prevent him from leaving the plant under police escort.
“At around 6.30pm on Monday, some riot policemen came and attempted to take Sun [the head of the office] away," Zhang Jian, a local resident, said. This led to clashes that lasted hours and at least five people injured.
According to 2008 data, at least 84,000 mass incidents caused by economic reasons break out on average every year in China. Chinese workers are poorly protected and street protests are commonplace for workers waiting for back pay.
However, for some observers the authorities are usually more concerned about the bad publicity social unrest might cause than finding solutions to its underlying problems.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chin...dia-from-reporting-social-problems-20550.html

 

[Bro. Curtis]

reconsidered

 

[Crabtownboy]

Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Hundreds of workers at a factory in Wuhan, Hubei, clashed for hours with police in anti-riot gear. They were trying to prevent their company boss from fleeing aided by police before back wages were paid. In the meantime, the authorities ban media from reporting public unrest or social problems that might tarnish China’s image.
Wuhan 3541 Garment General Factory made uniforms for the People’s Liberation Army, but went bust in 2007, laying off more than 4,000 workers. Since then, they have been waiting for back wages.
Quoting a local source, Radio Free Asia reported that protesters each want 30,000 to 40,000 yuan of housing subsidy and the moving allowance, which the factory had promised to pay, as well as an accounting on what will happen to the factory.
On Monday, more than 1,500 workers blocked streets around the factory, calling for the company boss to pay them after so many years. They also tried to prevent him from leaving the plant under police escort.
“At around 6.30pm on Monday, some riot policemen came and attempted to take Sun [the head of the office] away," Zhang Jian, a local resident, said. This led to clashes that lasted hours and at least five people injured.
According to 2008 data, at least 84,000 mass incidents caused by economic reasons break out on average every year in China. Chinese workers are poorly protected and street protests are commonplace for workers waiting for back pay.
However, for some observers the authorities are usually more concerned about the bad publicity social unrest might cause than finding solutions to its underlying problems.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chin...dia-from-reporting-social-problems-20550.html

Kind of like the Haymarket Riot in the US in 1886. Remember the coal field wars in WV? I had ancestors who were involved in that one. They were coalminers. Did you know that during the coal field wars the US government bombed the miners. That was the only time our government actually bombed its own people.

The town of Logan was protected by a natural barrier, Blair Mountain, located south of Sharples. Chafin's forces, now under the command of Colonel William Eubank of the National Guard, took positions on the crest of Blair Mountain as the miners assembled in the town of Blair, near the bottom of the mountain. On the 28th, the marchers took their first prisoners, four Logan County deputies and the son of another deputy. On the evening of the 30th, Baptist minister James E. Wilburn organized a small armed company to support the miners. On the 31st, Wilburn's men shot and killed three of Chafin's deputies, including John Gore, the father of one of the men captured previously. During the skirmish, a deputy killed one of Wilburn's followers, Eli Kemp. Over the next three days, there was intense fighting as Eubank's troops brought in planes to drop bombs.

On September 1, President Harding finally sent federal troops from Fort Thomas, Kentucky. War hero Billy Mitchell led an air squadron from Langley Field near Washington, D.C. The squadron set up headquarters in a vacant field in the present Kanawha City section of Charleston. Several planes did not make it, crashing in such distant places as Nicholas County, Raleigh County, and southwestern Virginia, and military air power played no important part in the battle. On the 3rd, the first federal troops arrived at Jeffrey, Sharples, Blair, and Logan. Confronted with the possibility of fighting against U.S. troops, most of the miners surrendered. Some of the miners on Blair Mountain continued fighting until the 4th, at which time virtually all surrendered or returned to their homes. During the fighting, at least twelve miners and four men from Chafin's army were killed.

http://www.wvculture.org/history/minewars.html

China is having problems of this type because they do not have workers protection regulations in place to protect those workers from unbridled Capitalism. That was the same problem in bygone days in the US. Remember the Robber Baron era in US history?

 

[targus]

China is having problems of this type because they do not have workers protection regulations in place to protect those workers from unbridled Capitalism.

So China "does capitalism better" because it is unbridled?

 

[Bro. James]

Que lastima!! Babylon is falling, falling. What we need is for the Antichrist to take over completely. Our real problem is: we are very perturbed that our quest for uncertain riches has been thwarted by a mound of toxic assets. Fear not, WallyMart is still buying 80% of our consumer goods from Mainland China--while many of our consumer goods workers are unemployed--which makes more toxic assets.

The ones with the gold/crude oil seem to be doing pretty well. We are paying over $3 for a gallon of distilled hydrocarbons--again. The stockholders are loving it.

The Chinese El Presidente is currently in Washington D.C. Our C in C seems unable to get much commitment for change in Chinese economic practice. I wonder: what would happen if we stopped buying from Walmart for a month? Yeah, a concerted boycott of Chinese goods. Our unemployment rate would certainly rise. Would the powers that be get the message? The body politic still has more clout than those who govern. Re: last congressional election.

Perhaps the merchants of this country need China--the consumers do not.

Greed is still the driving force for all of these economic/political posturings.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your understanding of China was pretty accurate until Deng Xioping instituted economic reforms. Those have been tweaked as time passed. The old state run industries are almost all gone. Capitalism has taken over and China has benefited greatly. China was a basket case until the reforms were instituted. Deng did away with the two currency policy and allowed private companies to start-up and make a profit. This led to the founding of the Chinese stock market. Joint venture companies were impossible before Deng. They are the driving force of the Chinese economic system now and are quite important to many American companies ... just ask WalMart.

Even politically there has been change. The government does not mettle in an individual personal lives nearly to the extent it did under Mao. The old block captains no longer exist. An article in Foreign Policy says it better than I am able to.



The government does manipulate its currency. We do the same, but not nearly to the same extent.

What the central government in Beijing will not tolerate is dissent. They come down quickly and hard on anything or anyone they see as a political threat. As long as a person is not viewed as a dissenter he is pretty well left alone.

So its currency & trade manipulate floating there capitalism. Plus they have no unions...only slave labor