Why did God allow the confusion of how to be saved?

[Charlie24]

I think we would all agree that God could have written the Scripture in a way that left no doubt as to how we are saved.

But yet He allowed for the possibility of His Word to be interpreted differently on the most important topic in Scripture, our salvation.

Why do you suppose He allowed this, knowing it would happen on such a large scale?

 

[JonC]

I believe Scripture IS written in a way that left no doubt as to how we are saved.

The issue comes in when men reject this Way because it does not meet their expectations, is not academic, etc. They view the gospel as presented in the Bibke as foolishness to an extent, or incomplete.

I cannot think of any "theology" regarding salvation that does not first start off with a philosophy or expectation and impose that on Scripture.

That, my friend, is why all the disagreements. People view Scripture as incomplete or imperfect and impose subjective ideas on to objective passages. These philosophies are subjective and therefore differ. So the outcome (objective Scripture made to fit within subjective philosophy) is disagreement.

 

[KJB1611reader]

To be saved: believe and trust Gospel.

Gospel is 1 CorI 15:1-5 how Jesus died, buried and.rose again.

Jesus shed his blood as there is no remission of without shedding of blood.

Trust his blood to.make thee white as snow and heaven bound!

OSAS,Shawn

 

[Charlie24]

I believe Scripture IS written in a way that left no doubt as to how we are saved.

The issue comes in when men reject this Way because it does not meet their expectations, is not academic, etc. They view the gospel as presented in the Bibke as foolishness to an extent, or incomplete.

I cannot think of any "theology" regarding salvation that does not first start off with a philosophy or expectation and impose that on Scripture.

That, my friend, is why all the disagreements. People view Scripture as incomplete or imperfect and impose subjective ideas on to objective passages. These philosophies are subjective and therefore differ. So the outcome (objective Scripture made to fit within subjective philosophy) is disagreement.

Yes, I agree, Jon. My point is that God could have used plain words in explaining what constitutes salvation and what doesn't without the possibility of misinterpretation, but He didn't. It would have required, I think, something like a rule book section carefully written in detail.

Of course some would still try to alter the contents, but nothing like we have now.

Why do you think He didn't take more care to distinguish salvation to cut back on the confusion?

 

[Dr. Bob]

The repentance/faith in the Gospel (obviously implying a true God, true worship, true sinfulness that demands salvation) is very clear. BUT you must have a soul-level change in the person reading or hearing it so that they WILL understand. Left on our own, man is incapable of this spiritual level "hearing".

Not talking audible hearing or reading, but truly comprehending it. This is not "education", but the miraculous unseen working of holy Spirit of God to change man to be able to see/hear on a spiritual level. We ALL have eyes, but spiritually we are blind to the Gospel. We ALL have ears, but no understanding.

Salvation is of the Lord, beginning, as Jesus tried to explain to "blind" Nicodemus - one of the smartest Jews and he could not understand spiritually - the supernatural work of God that we don't see or understand.

I taught at three colleges. I could often tell when "the light came on" as someone understood a difficult concept in math, logic, etc. Spiritually, the light NEVER comes on unless God first turns it on. MY WORK is to present the truth - repentance and faith alone - and leave flipping the switch to God.

 

[Charlie24]

The repentance/faith in the Gospel (obviously implying a true God, true worship, true sinfulness that demands salvation) is very clear. BUT you must have a soul-level change in the person reading or hearing it so that they WILL understand. Left on our own, man is incapable of this spiritual level "hearing".

Not talking audible hearing or reading, but truly comprehending it. This is not "education", but the miraculous unseen working of holy Spirit of God to change man to be able to see/hear on a spiritual level. We ALL have eyes, but spiritually we are blind to the Gospel. We ALL have ears, but no understanding.

Salvation is of the Lord, beginning, as Jesus tried to explain to "blind" Nicodemus - one of the smartest Jews and he could not understand spiritually - the supernatural work of God that we don't see or understand.

I taught at three colleges. I could often tell when "the light came on" as someone understood a difficult concept in math, logic, etc. Spiritually, the light NEVER comes on unless God first turns it on. MY WORK is to present the truth - repentance and faith alone - and leave flipping the switch to God.

Well, I know you're not for arguing, so I'll just let it rest. I do think you're on the right track, but I'm on the other side of the fence.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Well, I know you're not for arguing, so I'll just let it rest. I do think you're on the right track, but I'm on the other side of the fence.

Won't argue either, but "other side of the fence"?? It's up to man to understand and figure it out . . . and some smart ones will and other dumb ones won't? That seems horrifically close to "works" salvation instead of God's grace salvation.

 

[JonC]

Yes, I agree, Jon. My point is that God could have used plain words in explaining what constitutes salvation and what doesn't without the possibility of misinterpretation, but He didn't. It would have required, I think, something like a rule book section carefully written in detail.

Of course some would still try to alter the contents, but nothing like we have now.

Why do you think He didn't take more care to distinguish salvation to cut back on the confusion?

I agree when applied to many issues, but not with salvation.

The gospel is very simple, salvation os very simole. I think tgar is the problem. People want it complex, addressing every issue they may have. This was an issue with the Jews.

Look at Calvinism and Arminianism. Both views look at salvation through their own philosophy and assume that philosophy is correct. So they disagree.

 

[Charlie24]

Won't argue either, but "other side of the fence"?? It's up to man to understand and figure it out . . . and some smart ones will and other dumb ones won't? That seems horrifically close to "works" salvation instead of God's grace salvation.

Yes, God has a purpose in the sword among us. I don't want to argue but the truth is we can't discuss this with seeing God's plan totally different.

I do want you to understand that I don't want to argue either! But when the 5 points meet with free will what else can be done?

Everything is an argument or just keep silent.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I pointer. I've always held that if a person truly believes man is completely unable to seek, search, will, want, desire, decide, do good (in sight of God), make righteous decisions, incapable of one iota of salvation, that man's will is 100% in bondage to our sin nature, then man MUST realize salvation is ALL of God and NONE of me. I receive a free gift. It is given by grace. I don't grab it. I don't reach and help God.

Then we can discuss how the Father chooses, Son atones, Spirit regenerates, Godhead preserves eternally of the other four points.

 

[Charlie24]

I pointer. I've always held that if a person truly believes man is completely unable to seek, search, will, want, desire, decide, do good (in sight of God), make righteous decisions, incapable of one iota of salvation, that man's will is 100% in bondage to our sin nature, then man MUST realize salvation is ALL of God and NONE of me. I receive a free gift. It is given by grace. I don't grab it. I don't reach and help God.

Then we can discuss how the Father chooses, Son atones, Spirit regenerates, Godhead preserves eternally of the other four points.

Paul said that even the pagan Gentiles have a conscience that bears some light, and do the things in the Law not having the Law.

So man is never totally without light.

 

[JesusFan]

Paul said that even the pagan Gentiles have a conscience that bears some light, and do the things in the Law not having the Law.

So man is never totally without light.

But that light is unable to save lost sinners, as need the Gospel and the Holy Spirit to produce that in us

 

[JesusFan]

The repentance/faith in the Gospel (obviously implying a true God, true worship, true sinfulness that demands salvation) is very clear. BUT you must have a soul-level change in the person reading or hearing it so that they WILL understand. Left on our own, man is incapable of this spiritual level "hearing".

Not talking audible hearing or reading, but truly comprehending it. This is not "education", but the miraculous unseen working of holy Spirit of God to change man to be able to see/hear on a spiritual level. We ALL have eyes, but spiritually we are blind to the Gospel. We ALL have ears, but no understanding.

Salvation is of the Lord, beginning, as Jesus tried to explain to "blind" Nicodemus - one of the smartest Jews and he could not understand spiritually - the supernatural work of God that we don't see or understand.

I taught at three colleges. I could often tell when "the light came on" as someone understood a difficult concept in math, logic, etc. Spiritually, the light NEVER comes on unless God first turns it on. MY WORK is to present the truth - repentance and faith alone - and leave flipping the switch to God.

Spurgeon and the apostles would be proud of your discernment here

 

[Charlie24]

But that light is unable to save lost sinners, as need the Gospel and the Holy Spirit to produce that in us

That's right, light does not automatically equal salvation, but no man can say he is absent of all light.

Man has a God-given conscience if nothing else, a sense of right and wrong.

Going back to before the Law of Moses, Those Gentiles that had very little light, mainly the conscience, will be judged by what light they did have.

Rom. 2:14-15


"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;"