Why did God Arrange the Fall?

[JonC]

He did predestine the fall, He predestined Christ to die for sin before the world began,

Not saying the Fall was or was not predestined by God, but the last part of your statement does not support the first.

 

[Van]

He did predestine the fall, He predestined Christ to die for sin before the world began,

Sir, your assertion is nonsense. Yes God predestined Christ to die for sin, as His "Lamb of God" before creation. It does not follow, there is no logical necessity, that this action requires God to predestine or foreordain or cause Adam to sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

Sir, your assertion is nonsense. Yes God predestined Christ to die for sin, as His "Lamb of God" before creation. It does not follow, there is no logical necessity, that this action requires God to predestine or foreordain or cause Adam to sin.

He did predestine the fall, He predestined Christ to die for sin before the world began,

 

[Van]

Truth, God predestined Christ to die as His Lamb of God before the Fall.

Falsehood, God caused Adam to sin, then punished Adam and all his descendants for the action God compelled.

Truth, God arranged for Adam to sin, then punished Adam and all his descendants for the action God allowed.

 

[Van]

God arranged for the Fall, thus putting Adam in proximity to the tree with the forbidden fruit, and allowed Satan access to Eve which was part of His arrangement for the Fall.

However the subject of the thread is Why did God arrange for the Fall, and the answer from scripture is to magnify His glory when fallen sinners repent and turn to and trust in God.

Revelation 16:9
And the people were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

 

[Brightfame52]

God arranged for the Fall, thus putting Adam in proximity to the tree with the forbidden fruit, and allowed Satan access to Eve which was part of His arrangement for the Fall.

However the subject of the thread is Why did God arrange for the Fall, and the answer from scripture is to magnify His glory when fallen sinners repent and turn to and trust in God.

Revelation 16:9
And the people were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

It was all predestinated by God, God predestined that Adam would sin by his own choice and made him accountable, see Christ was already predestined to come and die for sin before Adam was created. 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now Adam hadnt been created yet before the foundation.

 

[Van]

It was all predestinated by God, God predestined that Adam would sin by his own choice and made him accountable, see Christ was already predestined to come and die for sin before Adam was created. 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now Adam hadnt been created yet before the foundation.

Repeating one falsehood after another like a blind guide suggests ignorance.

The issue as I have posted numerous times is not that Christ was chosen before the fall to be the Lamb of God, but that God did not cause and compel Adam to sin. This is not rocket science.

I am sorry Sir but it is pointless to go on. You continue with your non-sequitur. God having a redemption plan before the Fall does not support the God caused Adam to sin. He arranged for and allowed Adam to sin.

 

[Van]

Yes, God chose His Redeemer before the Fall to redeem those He would choose after the Fall. And to accomplish this purpose God arranged for the Fall, providing the opportunity for Adam to choose to sin by eating the forbidden fruit. This is no way predestined the Fall, but God's Redeemer was predestined to be the Lamb of God before the Fall.

 

[Van]

Post 42: Yes God predestined Christ to die for sin, as His "Lamb of God" before creation. It does not follow, there is no logical necessity, that this action requires God to predestine or foreordain or cause Adam to sin.

There are any number of other posts all making the same point!

 

[Van]

Truth, God predestined Christ to die as His Lamb of God before the Fall.

Falsehood, God caused Adam to sin, then punished Adam and all his descendants for the action God compelled.

Truth, God arranged for Adam to sin, then punished Adam and all his descendants for the action God allowed.

Here is another one. The blinders of early acceptance of falsehood as truth are the stock and trade of demonic forces.

 

[Brightfame52]

Repeating one falsehood after another like a blind guide suggests ignorance.

The issue as I have posted numerous times is not that Christ was chosen before the fall to be the Lamb of God, but that God did not cause and compel Adam to sin. This is not rocket science.

It was all predestinated by God, God predestined that Adam would sin by his own choice and made him accountable, see Christ was already predestined to come and die for sin before Adam was created. 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now Adam hadnt been created yet before the foundation.

 

[Van]

Note the fiction that God compels sin by making an individual "willing" to sin. If the individual is unable to be unwilling to sin, then no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, God becomes by that view the one who punishes the action He compels. If a person is predestined to do something, no other outcome is possible, making God unjust.

The premise is obviously false doctrine.

 

[Brightfame52]

Note the fiction that God compels sin by making an individual "willing" to sin. If the individual is unable to be unwilling to sin, then no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, God becomes by that view the one who punishes the action He compels. If a person is predestined to do something, no other outcome is possible, making God unjust.

The premise is obviously false doctrine.

Yes, God made him willing to sin, and so Adam is responsible for his disobedience, and all men in Adam sinned along with him before they were born. So Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

All this was purposed by God,it couldn't be any other way.

 

[Van]

Did God desire to send the fallen to Hades and Gehenna? Nope,

Eze 18:32
“For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live!”

Psalms 5:4
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness;
No evil can dwell with You.
​

So why did God arrange the fall?

First we must ask why did God choose to create humanity in the first place.

The answer is that He takes pleasure in His people. Those He chooses as His own possession. Psalms 149 teaches God takes pleasure in "His people" those that He has glorified with salvation. Thus God's purpose and plan was to choose for Himself a people needing salvation. And this glorification would including giving mercy to them. Thus the fall, made humanity in need of salvation, and in need of mercy. See 1 Peter 2:9-10

Does the indicated timing for His choice of the individuals to be His people come before creation or after the Fall, after they needed mercy?

Scripture says:

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY. ​

Obviously since we once had not received the mercy of being chosen as God's own possession, we were chosen individually after we were created as fallen individuals. This is the logical necessity of scripture.

God's purpose and plan was to choose "fallen people" who had repented, thus bringing Him glory.

Consider Gideon, and God reducing the size of his army so that the victory would bring Him greater glory. Same purpose is fulfilled when "fallen people" repent, turn to and trust in God, as that brings greater glory to God.

 

[Van]

If we reread Judges 7:1-25, we see where God kept reducing the size of Gideon's army from tens of thousands to 300 so they would know their accomplishment was not their own, they did not save themselves, but were saved by the power of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Van

Did God desire to send the fallen to Hades and Gehenna? Nope,

Yes Job 23:13

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him?
and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

 

[Brightfame52]

Adams fall was Gods ordained means of bringing Christ into the world to fulfill His death for sins of the elect, which was established to occur before the world began 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 who verily was foreordained[predestined] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Now how could Christ's redemptive death for sin be predestined before the foundation and Adams sin not be predestined by God before the foundation ?

 

[Van]

Van
Did God desire to send the fallen to Hades and Gehenna? Nope,"
Yes Job 23:13

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him?
and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

LOL, God's immutable attribute of holiness requires those made unholy to be separated from Him. When Adam sinned, did God "desire" to adhere to His immutable attribute of Holiness, and separate humanity from His kingdom of marvelous light? Yes.

But God desires for all people to be saved, not condemned, so He provided the means of reconciliation through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

So God's desire is for all people to be saved, according to His redemption plan, which includes crediting their faith as righteousness. And of course all the rest are condemned for unbelief.

Did God desire to send the fallen to Hades and Gehenna? Nope,

Eze 18:32
“For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live!”

Psalms 5:4
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness;
No evil can dwell with You.

 

[Van]

Now how could Christ's redemptive death for sin be predestined before the foundation and Adams sin not be predestined by God before the foundation ?

God anticipated the Fall. He provided for its eventuality. He arranged for the Fall, providing the means and opportunity. But Adam sinned volitionally, by his own choice. Thus God is not the author of sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

LOL, God's immutable attribute of holiness requires those made unholy to be separated from Him. When Adam sinned, did God "desire" to adhere to His immutable attribute of Holiness, and separate humanity from His kingdom of marvelous light? Yes.

But God desires for all people to be saved, not condemned, so He provided the means of reconciliation through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

So God's desire is for all people to be saved, according to His redemption plan, which includes crediting their faith as righteousness. And of course all the rest are condemned for unbelief.

Did God desire to send the fallen to Hades and Gehenna? Nope,

Eze 18:32
“For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live!”

Psalms 5:4
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness;
No evil can dwell with You.

Job 23:13

But he is in one mind, and who can turn him?
and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.