there exists NO true free will though apart from the Will of god, and for those saved by jesus!
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Why Didn't God....
- Thread starter Matt22:37-39
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there exists NO true free will though apart from the Will of god, and for those saved by jesus!
yet another assertion with no reference, again. Doesn't Satan have the authority from God to attack any minister (servant) of God? Isn't he crouching, ready to devour?
Again no reference so yet again without merit. Did Satan ask permission? Of course. But does Satan need to ask permission to attack God's servants now? Scripture please.
Ditto, no reference, just your mistaken understanding of God's word.
One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;
Luke 22:31
Sounds like satan HS to go thru the lord to do anything , doesn't it? As concerning the beliver? Soveringhty of God in play here!
Matt22:37-39
New Member
Question: "Does Satan have to get God's permission before he can attack us?"
Answer: There is no biblical evidence that suggests Satan needs God's specific permission in order to act against Christians. Many people believe that Job 1 supports the idea of Satan not being able to afflict Job until he asked God. However, consider Satan's argument before God, "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land" (Job 1:10). Satan is obviously familiar with who Job is and is aware of Job's special protection and blessing by God. How could Satan have known of Job's protection, unless he and/or his demonic minions had not already tried to work their will against Job? What Satan is really asking is for God to remove Job's protection.
A similar passage is Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Clearly in this case Satan had to ask permission to tempt Peter. Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed specifically for him so that Peter can strengthen the other disciples, the implication being that the others WILL be sifted in whatever way Satan intends. The Bible does not specifically state that the disciples had special protection from God, but there is no doubt that God had a higher purpose in mind—the strengthening of the other disciples—in allowing Satan to harass Peter.
Whereas these passages imply that there are boundaries and rules Satan must abide by, there is no real biblical proof that he needs God's permission. The very character of Satan proves that he disdains authority and is not one who would truly seek permission. Job was hedged about by the Lord—Satan couldn’t get to him without the Lord first removing that protection. The ultimate reality is that God controls everything in the universe, including Satan, and that “in all things God works for the good of those WHO LOVE HIM, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
www.gotquestions.org
I would add that only those who LOVE God who are have drawn close to Him can God work out the good...which may only be in their hearts and spirit and even eternity...no promise that things will be ok here on earth.
Answer: There is no biblical evidence that suggests Satan needs God's specific permission in order to act against Christians. Many people believe that Job 1 supports the idea of Satan not being able to afflict Job until he asked God. However, consider Satan's argument before God, "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land" (Job 1:10). Satan is obviously familiar with who Job is and is aware of Job's special protection and blessing by God. How could Satan have known of Job's protection, unless he and/or his demonic minions had not already tried to work their will against Job? What Satan is really asking is for God to remove Job's protection.
A similar passage is Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Clearly in this case Satan had to ask permission to tempt Peter. Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed specifically for him so that Peter can strengthen the other disciples, the implication being that the others WILL be sifted in whatever way Satan intends. The Bible does not specifically state that the disciples had special protection from God, but there is no doubt that God had a higher purpose in mind—the strengthening of the other disciples—in allowing Satan to harass Peter.
Whereas these passages imply that there are boundaries and rules Satan must abide by, there is no real biblical proof that he needs God's permission. The very character of Satan proves that he disdains authority and is not one who would truly seek permission. Job was hedged about by the Lord—Satan couldn’t get to him without the Lord first removing that protection. The ultimate reality is that God controls everything in the universe, including Satan, and that “in all things God works for the good of those WHO LOVE HIM, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
www.gotquestions.org
I would add that only those who LOVE God who are have drawn close to Him can God work out the good...which may only be in their hearts and spirit and even eternity...no promise that things will be ok here on earth.
Satan didn't ask God if he could tempt Job. Satan told God if I were to do this Job would forget you.
This happened 3 times until the Lord said go ahead and try your worst and Job will still be Faithful. satan did and Job remained Faithful. No where did satan ask God can I hurt this man. satan tested God and God won.
This happened 3 times until the Lord said go ahead and try your worst and Job will still be Faithful. satan did and Job remained Faithful. No where did satan ask God can I hurt this man. satan tested God and God won.
You have got to be kidding.
Your referenced scriptures do indicate Satan obtained approval to test Job. Ditto for Peter. But where does scripture indicate Satan does not have approval to tempt God's servants today?
1 Corinthians 7:5 indicates Satan can indeed tempt believers.
In 2 Corinthians 2:11 we see where we need to be aware of Satan's schemes. It seems Satan has permission, as the ruler of this world, to tempt us already.
We have the capacity to turn away from God and follow Satan.
When someone takes an event in scripture and then extrapolates it and says it applies to all men at all times, that person's view is without merit.
What we know is God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. He allows Satan to tempt us. Satan presents us with snares to cause us to fall away from the righteous path of God. He uses our own weaknesses, i.e. lack of self control, against us. Therefore it appears that Satan is acting against us (all mankind) all the time and that God has already allowed Satan to do so for God's purpose.
Your referenced scriptures do indicate Satan obtained approval to test Job. Ditto for Peter. But where does scripture indicate Satan does not have approval to tempt God's servants today?
1 Corinthians 7:5 indicates Satan can indeed tempt believers.
In 2 Corinthians 2:11 we see where we need to be aware of Satan's schemes. It seems Satan has permission, as the ruler of this world, to tempt us already.
We have the capacity to turn away from God and follow Satan.
When someone takes an event in scripture and then extrapolates it and says it applies to all men at all times, that person's view is without merit.
What we know is God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. He allows Satan to tempt us. Satan presents us with snares to cause us to fall away from the righteous path of God. He uses our own weaknesses, i.e. lack of self control, against us. Therefore it appears that Satan is acting against us (all mankind) all the time and that God has already allowed Satan to do so for God's purpose.
Matt22:37-39
New Member
Question: "Does Satan have to get God's permission before he can attack us?"
Answer: There is no biblical evidence that suggests Satan needs God's specific permission in order to act against Christians. Many people believe that Job 1 supports the idea of Satan not being able to afflict Job until he asked God. However, consider Satan's argument before God, "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land" (Job 1:10). Satan is obviously familiar with who Job is and is aware of Job's special protection and blessing by God. How could Satan have known of Job's protection, unless he and/or his demonic minions had not already tried to work their will against Job? What Satan is really asking is for God to remove Job's protection.
A similar passage is Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Clearly in this case Satan had to ask permission to tempt Peter. Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed specifically for him so that Peter can strengthen the other disciples, the implication being that the others WILL be sifted in whatever way Satan intends. The Bible does not specifically state that the disciples had special protection from God, but there is no doubt that God had a higher purpose in mind—the strengthening of the other disciples—in allowing Satan to harass Peter.
Whereas these passages imply that there are boundaries and rules Satan must abide by, there is no real biblical proof that he needs God's permission. The very character of Satan proves that he disdains authority and is not one who would truly seek permission. Job was hedged about by the Lord—Satan couldn’t get to him without the Lord first removing that protection. The ultimate reality is that God controls everything in the universe, including Satan, and that “in all things God works for the good of those WHO LOVE HIM, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
www.gotquestions.org
I would add that only those who LOVE God who are have drawn close to Him can God work out the good...which may only be in their hearts and spirit and even eternity...no promise that things will be ok here on earth.
Answer: There is no biblical evidence that suggests Satan needs God's specific permission in order to act against Christians. Many people believe that Job 1 supports the idea of Satan not being able to afflict Job until he asked God. However, consider Satan's argument before God, "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land" (Job 1:10). Satan is obviously familiar with who Job is and is aware of Job's special protection and blessing by God. How could Satan have known of Job's protection, unless he and/or his demonic minions had not already tried to work their will against Job? What Satan is really asking is for God to remove Job's protection.
A similar passage is Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Clearly in this case Satan had to ask permission to tempt Peter. Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed specifically for him so that Peter can strengthen the other disciples, the implication being that the others WILL be sifted in whatever way Satan intends. The Bible does not specifically state that the disciples had special protection from God, but there is no doubt that God had a higher purpose in mind—the strengthening of the other disciples—in allowing Satan to harass Peter.
Whereas these passages imply that there are boundaries and rules Satan must abide by, there is no real biblical proof that he needs God's permission. The very character of Satan proves that he disdains authority and is not one who would truly seek permission. Job was hedged about by the Lord—Satan couldn’t get to him without the Lord first removing that protection. The ultimate reality is that God controls everything in the universe, including Satan, and that “in all things God works for the good of those WHO LOVE HIM, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
www.gotquestions.org
I would add that only those who LOVE God who are have drawn close to Him can God work out the good...which may only be in their hearts and spirit and even eternity...no promise that things will be ok here on earth.
To have classic free will has absolutely nothing to do with choosing one evil over that of another.
NOTHING happens to thesaint by chance or "fate", so if there is sickness, attcks from the enemy of our souls etc, the Lord knows that will come to pass, and he can invervene at any time to stop that from happening, or esle allows us to go thru, due to this is a sinful World of our own creation, that He allows some things to happen, but will make sure his own do endure and win in the end!
satan in on a leash,and god allows him to do what he has purposed to do, but ONLY in the Will/plan/purposes of God, so even satan is not a totally free moral agent!
that gives me graet peace, knowing that the Lord has all things worked out for mygood, and that nothing happens to me without Him knowing or allowing it!
Never mind...answered
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Wrong again
Scripture says things happen by chance. And of course God allows things to happen by chance because if He caused the event, it would not be by chance.
But you are right, God does make sure those "in Christ" and indwelt with the Holy Spirit endure and have eternal life.
God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass because He is sovereign. God allows men to do evil in His eyes.
Suicides bring the physical life and opportunity for salvation to a close. We do not know if these two individuals, listed in the OP, were saved or not, only God knows. If they were, then they are in a better place, thus God causes all things to work together for good, for those who love God.
But does God cause us who love the Lord to enjoy "the good life" while here on earth, never having a child commit suicide, or suffering from cancer or on and on. Of course not. But if we are saved, then the surpassing glory of our secure future makes small potatoes of our earthly afflictions and suffering.
Scripture says things happen by chance. And of course God allows things to happen by chance because if He caused the event, it would not be by chance.
But you are right, God does make sure those "in Christ" and indwelt with the Holy Spirit endure and have eternal life.
God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass because He is sovereign. God allows men to do evil in His eyes.
Suicides bring the physical life and opportunity for salvation to a close. We do not know if these two individuals, listed in the OP, were saved or not, only God knows. If they were, then they are in a better place, thus God causes all things to work together for good, for those who love God.
But does God cause us who love the Lord to enjoy "the good life" while here on earth, never having a child commit suicide, or suffering from cancer or on and on. Of course not. But if we are saved, then the surpassing glory of our secure future makes small potatoes of our earthly afflictions and suffering.
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saturneptune
New Member
God is the Creator. He is sovereign. He works out His purposes as He sees fit. Because you do not understand it or think it is fair is immaterial. You have shown yourself unable to understand life as God has given us the ability, certainly not on a level of the eternal.
saturneptune
New Member
You seem to understand this as well as you do Bible versions.
God's word says things happen by chance. Your personal incredulity does not diminish God's statement that things happen by chance. Only a liberal would say chance does not mean chance.
Foreknowledge does not necessarily equal foreordination
true, but also implies that how many days we have from god for hear, that he will make sure we get to that appointed time to passover!
A liberal calling others a liberal. That's rich!
van labels us all together, just curious how calvin/Spurgeon/owens/edwards would have reacted to tagged as a 'liberal!"