Why Do Arminians, others, and forms of Pelagianism Believe That...

[preacher4truth]

... they themselves can pluck themselves out of God's hand, as in John 10:28?

I've heard them say in rebuttal to Jesus in this passage, that "nothing" can pluck us out, but that "You" can pluck your ownself out of His hand.

Isn't this taking mans alleged free-will and transcending it above the power of Christ in Salvation?

Doesn't this also suggest works based maintenance in salvation?

Did God need any of our help in saving (rescuing) us, in the first place?

 

[convicted1]

... they themselves can pluck themselves out of God's hand, as in John 10:28?

I've heard them say in rebuttal to Jesus in this passage, that "nothing" can pluck us out, but that "You" can pluck your ownself out of His hand.

Isn't this taking mans alleged free-will and transcending it above the power of Christ in Salvation?

Doesn't this also suggest works based maintenance in salvation?

Did God need any of our help in saving (rescuing) us, in the first place?

I, for one, Brother, would be lumped in this class of believers, but do not ascribe to this belief. I have heard it preached that nothing can pluck us out of His hand, but you can just walk off and leave Him. They make the "baloney" statement that they left Him, He didn't leave them. Now, if they left Him, something had to cause this, so in reality, something did pluck them out of His hand.....YUCK!! I serve a God that is able to keep that which I have committed into His hands against that day.....I committed my life into His hands, and He is leading me all the way to the Throne!! Praise His sweet name!!

 

[preacher4truth]

I, for one, Brother, would be lumped in this class of believers, but do not ascribe to this belief. I have heard it preached that nothing can pluck us out of His hand, but you can just walk off and leave Him. They make the "baloney" statement that they left Him, He didn't leave them. Now, if they left Him, something had to cause this, so in reality, something did pluck them out of His hand.....YUCK!! I serve a God that is able to keep that which I have committed into His hands against that day.....I committed my life into His hands, and He is leading me all the way to the Throne!! Praise His sweet name!!

How exactly are you lumped into this class of believers?

You lost me, I don't get your meaning.

 

[JesusFan]

... they themselves can pluck themselves out of God's hand, as in John 10:28?

I've heard them say in rebuttal to Jesus in this passage, that "nothing" can pluck us out, but that "You" can pluck your ownself out of His hand.

Isn't this taking mans alleged free-will and transcending it above the power of Christ in Salvation?

Doesn't this also suggest works based maintenance in salvation?

Did God need any of our help in saving (rescuing) us, in the first place?

Other way that I have heard it explained is that God will still keep saved even one who commits Aposty and denies His lord, due to salvation rooted/based in the Cross, not ourselves. think Charles Stanley holds to that!

The thing that I do not understand in this is just HOW we undo completely the work by God in salvation... We have the Holy Spiry indwell us, and seals us until the time when God gets us back, at either our deasth/second coming ...
God brings us out of Kingdom of satan into His Sons Kingdom, and forgives us, sends his Spirit to preserve/keep us...

guess that is ultimate sign that some Arminians do affirmed man has ultimate basis of salavtion, as we HAVE allow permit/allow God to redeem us, and HAVEto allow Him to keep us!

 

[Alive in Christ]

I am probably about 90% in with the arminian view and yet I hold to the complete, 100% absolute eternal security of the believer.

 

[convicted1]

How exactly are you lumped into this class of believers?

You lost me, I don't get your meaning.

Well, I believe that we are born "spiritually alive", and when God imputes sin unto us, we then die spiritually. I guess this would lump me in the "semi-Peligian" group? That is why I said I guess I would be lumped into the class of believers. I am a four point Arminian, but do not believe one can forfeit their salvation, make shipwreck their faith, etc.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well, I believe that we are born "spiritually alive", and when God imputes sin unto us, we then die spiritually. I guess this would lump me in the "semi-Peligian" group? That is why I said I guess I would be lumped into the class of believers. I am a four point Arminian, but so not believe one can forfeit their salvation, make shipwreck their faith, etc.

Gotcha!!!!

 

[convicted1]

Other way that I have heard it explained is that God will still keep saved even one who commits Aposty and denies His lord, due to salvation rooted/based in the Cross, not ourselves. think Charles Stanley holds to that!

I have heard others who stated they have heard this preached, though I haven't heard this personally. This is also called "once in grace, always in grace". I have had to defend myself a few times when I stated that I am OSAS, but not like what you stated. I believe that we, as CHRISTians, know what to, and what not to do.

The thing that I do not understand in this is just HOW we undo completely the work by God in salvation... We have the Holy Spiry indwell us, and seals us until the time when God gets us back, at either our deasth/second coming ...
God brings us out of Kingdom of satan into His Sons Kingdom, and forgives us, sends his Spirit to preserve/keep us...

The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal; God knows those that are His. If we have been born again, we have been placed in Christ, we have been picked up out of the miry clay, and placed upon THE ROCK. He establishes our goings, and also puts a new song in our mouth, even praises unto God. We can not undo what God has done. IOW, we can not become "unsaved".

guess that is ultimate sign that some Arminians do affirmed man has ultimate basis of salavtion, as we HAVE allow permit/allow God to redeem us, and HAVEto allow Him to keep us!

This Arminian did not have the ultimate basis of salvation. The only thing I could do was humble myself under His mighty hand, believe the gospel, and repent of my sins. When I believed from the depths of my heart, He saved my dead soul.