Why Do Arminians Pray for the Salvation of the Lost?

[thatbrian]

What a stupid question. That's like asking, why do Calvinists preach the gospel, after all, God already elected those who will be saved. Come on bro!

Actually, your answer is formed from ignorance, so I'll try to explain.

Calvinists proclaim the gospel to all men, as commanded by Christ. That's consistent.

Calvinists proclaim the gospel because the proclamation of the gospel is the means God uses to call His elect. That is consistent.

Calvinists proclaim the gospel promiscuously because we don't know who God's elect are. That is also consistent with our views.

Arminians attribute the ultimate choice as if it were in the hands of men. Men exercise their free will after God calls, draws, and provide prevenient grace to temporarily suspend the effects of original sin; therefore to ask God to do anything else in regard to a sinner is to ask for something inconsistent with your view.

I'm still waiting for someone to give me the precise language of their prayer in this regard.

 

[InTheLight]

I'm still waiting for someone to give me the precise language of their prayer in this regard.

No, you're not. You're just looking to build strawmen and get into arguments. Scarlett O. and I both answered you and here was your response:

I've no doubt you pray for these things, and you should pray for such things. What I have asked is why you do, if you hold an Arminian or semi-Pelagian view of soteriology.

I think ITL is on my ignore list

So when someone answers why they pray the way they do, you ask "what, specifically do you pray?". And when they specify what they pray you ask, "Why do you pray like that?"

Do you not realize what you say and write?

 

[Reynolds]

Are you an Arminian?

A classical Arminian.

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually, your answer is formed from ignorance, so I'll try to explain.

Calvinists proclaim the gospel to all men, as commanded by Christ. That's consistent.

Calvinists proclaim the gospel because the proclamation of the gospel is the means God uses to call His elect. That is consistent.

Calvinists proclaim the gospel promiscuously because we don't know who God's elect are. That is also consistent with our views.

Arminians attribute the ultimate choice as if it were in the hands of men. Men exercise their free will after God calls, draws, and provide prevenient grace to temporarily suspend the effects of original sin; therefore to ask God to do anything else in regard to a sinner is to ask for something inconsistent with your view.

I'm still waiting for someone to give me the precise language of their prayer in this regard.

In the non Cal view, they see that God has done all that he can do, as Jesus died for all sinners , and sent for saving Grace towards all lost sinners, and waits upon them to accept or reject His gift!

 

[robycop3]

If everyone is predestinated no matter what, then why have Bibles, churches, etc. or bother to spread the Gospel?

 

[Mr. Davis]

I don't understand the question. Calvinists would have the same reasons for praying for the lost as would Arminians as both believe God knows the outcome (even if for different reasons).

Are you asking why some petition God while believing that God already knows the outcome?

Isn't there the danger of Arminian Universalism?
Dosen't their unlimited atonement open-up this possibility?
TCassidy's Particular Redemption prevents this!
Are there any safeguards at all in Arminianism?

 

[thatbrian]

If everyone is predestinated no matter what, then why have Bibles, churches, etc. or bother to spread the Gospel?

First, because God said so. Second, the preaching of the gospel is the means that God uses to call His sheep to Himself.

 

[InTheLight]

First, because God said so. Second, the preaching of the gospel is the means that God uses to call His sheep to Himself.

I get it now. God elects people from eternity past and then looks down the corridors of time and sees preachers and missionaries proclaiming the gospel.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[Reformed]

If everyone is predestinated no matter what, then why have Bibles, churches, etc. or bother to spread the Gospel?

At the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum, ad nauseaum; because God has ordained the means of calling and saving His elect. All we do is for His glory; even the process of preaching the Gospel until the last sheep enters the fold.

 

[JonC]

Isn't there the danger of Arminian Universalism?
Dosen't their unlimited atonement open-up this possibility?
TCassidy's Particular Redemption prevents this!
Are there any safeguards at all in Arminianism?

I guess the limiting factor would be that Arminianism itself rejects universalism (once someone gets to that point they hold to something else...like with Open Theism).

Unlimited Atonement doesn't open this possibility because it isn't a stand alone doctrine.

We can't accept doctrine simply for what it would prevent. The safeguard in Arminianism is that it isn't a string of unrelated doctrines. It is of Calvinistic trajectory, so I believe it is inconsistent (Penal Substitution Theory logically leads to affirming all 5 points of Calvinism). But even in its inconsistence there are boundaries outside which a doctrine is unorthodox to the system.

 

[Don]

The main difference seems to be that in calvinism, God chooses us, in Arminian, we choose God, and that is due to difference between not able to resist the grace of God, and being able to do that in a salvation sense.

You missed Arminius' point. His writings say that no one chooses God without Him first giving them the ability to do so (i.e., choosing them and giving them the grace that quickens their spirit).

Since God chose first, your argument is really with resistable grace.

 

[Don]

Isn't there the danger of Arminian Universalism?
Dosen't their unlimited atonement open-up this possibility?
TCassidy's Particular Redemption prevents this!
Are there any safeguards at all in Arminianism?

There doesn't need to be "safeguards" in arminianism. Classical arminianism preaches that the atonement is offered to all, but is only useful to believers. Thus, no "arminian universalism" exists.

 

[thatbrian]

You missed Arminius' point. His writings say that no one chooses God without Him first giving them the ability to do so (i.e., choosing them and giving them the grace that quickens their spirit).

Since God chose first, your argument is really with resistable grace.

That's a slight of hand or a misunderstanding of the position. Arminian election is dependent upon man's choice. In other words, one is not elect of God unless God, through His "foreknowledge" knows that man will choose Him.

 

[Reformed]

Classical arminianism preaches that the atonement is offered to all, but is only useful to believers.

This is better known as Amyraldianism. Amyraldianism attempts to bridge the gap between Calvinism and Arminianism but comes up short. It replaces definite (or 'limited') atonement with universal atonement. According to Amyraldianism, Christ died for all but His atoning death is only efficacious for those who believe. Amyraldianism contradicts John 6:37 in which Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me". In Amyraldianism election comes after the decree that "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me". Scripture teaches that the decree comes before the atonement, as stated in Ephesians 1:4, "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world".

 

[Rippon]

In the non Cal view, they see that God has done all that he can do, as Jesus died for all sinners , and sent for saving Grace towards all lost sinners, and waits upon them to accept or reject His gift!

Y-1, are you still a 4-pointer as you were in 2012?

 

[Yeshua1]

You missed Arminius' point. His writings say that no one chooses God without Him first giving them the ability to do so (i.e., choosing them and giving them the grace that quickens their spirit).

Since God chose first, your argument is really with resistable grace.

God sends forth to all sinners SAME saving Grace, so why do some respond yes, while others no?

 

[Yeshua1]

Y-1, are you still a 4-pointer as you were in 2012?

I have graduated on to being a real 5 point Calvinist!

 

[Revmitchell]

God sends forth to all sinners SAME saving Grace, so why do some respond yes, while others no?

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Because they love the darkness more than the light.

 

[Yeshua1]

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Because they love the darkness more than the light.

And what made those who receive jesus all of a sudden turn from darkness to light?

 

[Revmitchell]

And what made those who receive jesus all of a sudden turn from darkness to light?

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.