Why do Baptist's not take the "other" ordinance so seriously?

[webdog]

Word's not wine...it's "fruit of the vine".
How's it supped?...from a "cup".
Matt. 26:27-29; I Cor. 11:25 ff.

Odd that the particular word "wine" is not used in biblical Communion passages.

Fruit of the vine is a metaphor for wine.

 

[jcjordan]

Fruit of the vine is a metaphor for wine.

That is correct. There was no way to keep grape juice in those times. There was no such thing as common grape juice as we know today until the mid 1800's, when Mr. Welches came along.

 

[OldRegular]

I must admit, I'm new to Southern Baptist life. I've only been a member now for about 10 months. One thing very important to baptist's is that we do the ordinance of baptism correctly. We seem to be very concerned that baptism is by immersion and not sprinkling. In fact, many baptists will even say that those who were baptized by sprinkling, need to be re-baptized the right way. I would like to know why baptist's don't typically take the other ordinance, the Lord's Supper, so seriously. If we are so concerned about doing things exactly how the new testament prescribes, why don't we serve real wine in communion? Grape juice for communion didn't exist until 150 years ago. Also, I think wine is a much better representation of Christ's blood. Also, shouldn't we also always be using unleavened bread?

Perhaps it is because some Baptist Churches do not take worship seriously. The so-called "contempory worship" service, whatever that is, is sweeping through the Southern Baptist Churches.

But back to the Lord's Supper.

1. Most Baptist Churches of any size will serve the elements to whoever is present, must not offend.

2. I have seen deacons serve the elements to those whom they knew were not Baptized.

3. I have seen deacon's wives serve the elements to their very young unbaptized children.

4. I have seen teen agers toast each other with the grape juice.

I believe that many people in the Church see the Lord's Supper as an inconvenience, particularly if it extends the length of the service. Years ago the pastor of the Church of which I was a member made a solemn announcement. I was expecting , well something different than what i got. He stated that since the Lord's Supper, which only occurred each quarter, extended the service he would leave out his 15 minute sermon. Have to beat the crowd to the restaurant you know. I believe that partaking in the Lord's Supper is a solemn, though joyous occasion. Perhaps that is one reason those communion services in which Feet Washing occurred impressed me so much.

Many Baptist Churches only observe the Lord's Supper once each quarter saying they do not want it to become a ritual. It has become a ritual because sadly Christians fail to understand its significance

 

[Pastor Larry]

Pour a glass of grape juice and leave it sitting out for a week. Also pour a glass of wine and leave it sitting out for a week. Then tell me which one represents our Lord's blood better.

Let's assume I have done. Tell me which one represents our Lord's blood better and why.

 

[webdog]

Let's assume I have done. Tell me which one represents our Lord's blood better and why.

The one free of yeast. Airborne yeast will permeate the juice, but the wine will be the same as when it was poured as fermentation has been completed.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Biblically, why does that represent the Lord's blood better?

 

[Jerome]

Won't it turn to vinegar?

 

[Jim1999]

Once in Korea, during the war, I served communion using the stale bread we had and water,,,there was no wine. Did I do wrong? Not one soldier seem to take it as wrong, and was much appreciated.

Is it the blood and wine, or what is represents,,this do in rembrance of Me....

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

Biblically, why does that represent the Lord's blood better?

Yeast was a metaphor for sin. That is why the Passover couldn't have yeast anywhere in sight leading up to it. Wine is free of impurities, hence metaphorically it is pure, like the blood of Christ.

 

[webdog]

Once in Korea, during the war, I served communion using the stale bread we had and water,,,there was no wine. Did I do wrong? Not one soldier seem to take it as wrong, and was much appreciated.

Is it the blood and wine, or what is represents,,this do in rembrance of Me....

Cheers,

Jim

I don't think you did wrong. You used what God supplied. If you had the elements available and didn't use them, that might be a different story.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Yeast was a metaphor for sin. That is why the Passover couldn't have yeast anywhere in sight leading up to it. Wine is free of impurities, hence metaphorically it is pure, like the blood of Christ.

That's what I suspected the answer would be, but there's no biblical indication that this is significant in communion. That's why I asked for a biblical answer.

In the end, it doesn't really matter, biblically. Some people, for cultural reasons, prefer one or the other. Which is fine. If you use wine, you should have juice available for those who have drinking issues as a matter of Christian courtesy and watchcare over your brothers and sisters.

 

[jcjordan]

That's what I suspected the answer would be, but there's no biblical indication that this is significant in communion. That's why I asked for a biblical answer.

So would it be o.k. for a church to subsitute grape juice with ummm....let's say....."Dr. Pepper". Maybe they could even use a nice doughnut in place of the bread!

In the end, it doesn't really matter, biblically. Some people, for cultural reasons, prefer one or the other. Which is fine.

So it's what people prefer that matters? How about if I "prefer" to be sprinkled? Or maybe even better...I would prefer being dunked in a big tub of beer!

If you use wine, you should have juice available for those who have drinking issues as a matter of Christian courtesy and watchcare over your brothers and sisters.

I've got no problem with this...for the weaker brother.

 

[webdog]

That's what I suspected the answer would be, but there's no biblical indication that this is significant in communion. That's why I asked for a biblical answer.

Since communion was done during and using the passover meal, and the passover was a foreshadowing of things to come concerning Christ's death, I think that there is a biblical argument made for it. The Bible is full of symbolism.

 

[J.D.]

Once in Korea, during the war, I served communion using the stale bread we had and water,,,there was no wine. Did I do wrong? Not one soldier seem to take it as wrong, and was much appreciated.

Is it the blood and wine, or what is represents,,this do in rembrance of Me....

Cheers,

Jim

I too believe that you did the right thing. You did this not of convenience or indifference to the elements, but of necessity. And you didn't forbid it which would have been a wooden legalism.

 

[Marcia]

I wonder if Baptists would take the LS more seriously if they had to go up front to take the juice and bread/wafer? I have done that in other churches and I prefer it to sitting in the pew waiting for the big silver platter to come by.

I don't see a big issue with wine vs. juice. It's our attitude that counts and grape juice is close to wine - it's just not alcoholic. Still comes from grapes.

 

[Pastor Larry]

So would it be o.k. for a church to subsitute grape juice with ummm....let's say....."Dr. Pepper". Maybe they could even use a nice doughnut in place of the bread!

I would not recommend this. I think the symbolism is important, but yeast or leaven did not always symbolize sin or else it would have been completely forbidden, rather than just at certain times.

So it's what people prefer that matters?

On some issues yes.

How about if I "prefer" to be sprinkled?

You can be sprinkled if you wish. Just don't call it baptism. This is to completely ignore the differences between the type of juice used for communion which is not commanded, and the fact that we are to be baptized which is commanded.

I've got no problem with this...for the weaker brother.

So you are admitting that it isn't wrong to do so, which seems a rather significant admission.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Since communion was done during and using the passover meal, and the passover was a foreshadowing of things to come concerning Christ's death, I think that there is a biblical argument made for it. The Bible is full of symbolism.

Do you know of any place in the Scripture where the leaven argument is used for wine? So far as I know, it is used only for bread.

 

[Jerome]

Wine is what is left after yeast works on grape juice.
It is hardly "pure"; ever hear of the dregs?

 

[doulous]

*duplicate post*

 

[doulous]

Curious...what's the difference between an unbeliever and an unrepentant sinner?

An unbeliever is a person who has never been born again. I used "unrepentant sinner" to describe a professing believer who is in unrepentant sin. I believe the scripture clearly teaches (1 Cor. 11) that a believer can sin and be chastened by God if they do not repent. Of course, only God knows the heart and whether the professed believer who is in sin is actually a believer. The approach they have to dealing with sin in their life before coming to the Lord's table speaks volumes.