Why do non cals say cals teach regeneration before faith?

[gb93433]

I know! Especially a verse that simply affirms something we ALL accept, which is that God must explain deep mysterious truths to mankind in order for us to really understand them.

I would contend that the disobedient man does not understand because the mysteries cannot always be explained in an intellectual way. Some are explained bu the spiritual man and others experienced. Why would God reveal something to the disobedient or complacent?

What baffles me is why most Calvinists deny that the means God used by His Spirit to inspire divinely appointed messengers to write the very WORDS of God is somehow insufficient for understanding. Apparently natural men can look at God's creation and understand God's eternal attributes and divine nature (ref. Rom 1), but he can't read the clear words of the Holy Spirit wrought truth of the gospel and understand them. Weird! :smilewinkgrin:

Don't you understand that God did everything. He moved the men and even the pen that wrote each letter. God even move the papyrus and parchments. Later He used the KJVO folks to correct the original wording because they are not experts in the original languages but they believe in Holy Ghost English and trust it completely.

 

[Winman]

Amazing one Bible verse is the answer to every post on this board.

It's all they've got.

Nevermind that in the very same book Paul tells if preaching is done in language that is easy to understand the unbeliever will be convinced and convicted and fall down on his face and worship God.

1 Cor 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1 Cor 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Paul here says that if an unlearned man or an unbeliever comes in and hears all the church speaking in tongues, he will think everyone is crazy.

But if he hears plain preaching of the word in words easy to be understood he will be convinced and convicted of his sin and fall down on his face and worship God.

The scriptures DO NOT teach that unregenerate man cannot understand the gospel, they clearly teach he can.

 

[Skandelon]

Paul here says that if an unlearned man or an unbeliever comes in and hears all the church speaking in tongues, he will think everyone is crazy.

But if he hears plain preaching of the word in words easy to be understood he will be convinced and convicted of his sin and fall down on his face and worship God.

The scriptures DO NOT teach that unregenerate man cannot understand the gospel, they clearly teach he can.

Amen and Amen! Why do Calvinists want to let unbelievers off the hook so easy by suggesting they can't understand basic human language? I mean, they don't even have to wade through KJV old english, they can read the Message or some other easy to understand 2nd grade level translation. Who can't understand that?

The problem is that they don't seem to understand the difference between 'understanding truth' and 'accepting truth.' Man can understand truth but chose to reject it, or trade that truth in for lies. That is why they stand 'without excuse.'

 

[webdog]

I would contend that the disobedient man does not understand because the mysteries cannot always be explained in an intellectual way. Some are explained bu the spiritual man and others experienced. Why would God reveal something to the disobedient or complacent?

It's not that he does not understand, it's he refuses to believe that which he understands. Romans 1 is quite clear the he understands, but exchanges the truth for a lie. He cannot exchange the truth without grasping it. How does one exchange a shirt at the store without having possession of it?

Don't you understand that God did everything. He moved the men and even the pen that wrote each letter. God even move the papyrus and parchments. Later He used the KJVO folks to correct the original wording because they are not experts in the original languages but they believe in Holy Ghost English and trust it completely.

Who has argued to the contrary? Of course God did everything to know and understand Him...that is the pivotal truth found in Acts 17:26-27

 

[saturneptune]

Who can't understand that?

I took you to be smarter than to leave yourself that wide open, so I will refrain.

 

[Skandelon]

I took you to be smarter than to leave yourself that wide open, so I will refrain.

Awww, the defer to ad hominem rather than answer the point of debate strategy. Revealing and sad.