Why do people choose differently?

[npetreley]

What is the difference? One choose God over self. Literally rejection of self.

That's not the why, that's the what. That's your choice, to choose God over yourself. That isn't WHY you chose God over yourself.

Why did you choose God over yourself, but the other person chose himself over God? Are you less self-centered than that other person? Are you less stubborn? Can you see the benefits of that choice better because you're smarter? Why?

 

[Allan]

That's not the why, that's the what. That's your choice, to choose God over yourself. That isn't WHY you chose God over yourself.

Why did you choose God over yourself, but the other person chose himself over God? Are you less self-centered than that other person? Are you less stubborn? Can you see the benefits of that choice better because you're smarter? Why?

That isn't all I wrote.

Read the verses :smilewinkgrin:

 

[npetreley]

That isn't all I wrote.

Read the verses :smilewinkgrin:

I read it all. There's nothing more in there. Not a single explanation as to what made the difference that you would make the right decision. You give plenty of reasons why people make the wrong decision, but none whatsoever as to what it is about you that, given the same truth, you would make the right one. The best you can do is "because I can", which is no answer.

 

[Rippon]

I'll Help Allan Out

In 1 Cor. 4:7 : For who makes you different from anyone else ? What do you have that you did not receive ? And if you did receive it , why do you boast as though you did not ?

In 2 Cor. 4:6 it relates this info : For God ... made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ .

Allan , the Lord made us alive while we were still dead in our sin . He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness into his wonderful light . He chose to give us birth . It doesn't depend on a person's willpower or effort , but on God's mercy . The Lord opens hearts to respond to Himself . He chooses to give us birth -- not us . The Father has to enable one to come to Jesus . Some can't believe because the Lord has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts . No one seeks God , no one understands . God translates people into His kingdom alone -- with no help from man .

 

[Brother Bob]

In 1 Cor. 4:7 : For who makes you different from anyone else ? What do you have that you did not receive ? And if you did receive it , why do you boast as though you did not ?

In 2 Cor. 4:6 it relates this info : For God ... made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ .

Allan , the Lord made us alive while we were still dead in our sin . He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness into his wonderful light . He chose to give us birth . It doesn't depend on a person's willpower or effort , but on God's mercy . The Lord opens hearts to respond to Himself . He chooses to give us birth -- not us . The Father has to enable one to come to Jesus . Some can't believe because the Lord has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts . No one seeks God , no one understands . God translates people into His kingdom alone -- with no help from man .

How on earth could anyone be made "alive", unless they were dead. The already "alive" could not be made "alive". We all were dead in sin, some of us chose to follow the light and some loved the darkness much more.

 

[AresMan]

How on earth could anyone be made "alive", unless they were dead.

This sounds like a viable answer:

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened [made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation [behavior] in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

The already "alive" could not be made "alive".

I assume the first "alive" is physical life, and the second "alive" is spiritual life. If this is the case, then yes, that is exactly what happens when someone is saved.

We all were dead in sin, some of us chose to follow the light and some loved the darkness much more.

Since we were all dead in sin, why do any of us choose to follow the light?

 

[Amy.G]

In 1 Cor. 4:7 : For who makes you different from anyone else ? What do you have that you did not receive ? And if you did receive it , why do you boast as though you did not ?

This verse is not about salvation. Paul is speaking to the church, people who are already saved. The "what" in this verse is referring to gifts given by God. Not salvation as they already had that.

 

[Allan]

I read it all. There's nothing more in there. Not a single explanation as to what made the difference that you would make the right decision. You give plenty of reasons why people make the wrong decision, but none whatsoever as to what it is about you that, given the same truth, you would make the right one. The best you can do is "because I can", which is no answer.

Then your read in the verses, and in them it states they deny the truth revealed that COULD save them, and after rejecting Gods truth THEN God gave them over, and that they are given a choice to obey or reject.
How can these potentially save them if it was not FOR THEM. There is NO potentail saving or hypothetical saving in your understanding. Christ died to ONLY save His, and His only are given the potential of salvation. Yet scripture state explicitly the exact opposite of your view.

The answer to you question of 'why', is 'they' or 'we'.
You come to the arguement with a flawed answer and no other answer suffices your view no matter how biblical it must meet your theological. God is the reason some will call, and some will reject because He makes them to.
WRONG! God gave them the choice to accept His truth or reject it.

Why do some accept and others reject, the answer resides in their choice not their nature.

 

[Amy.G]

Since we were all dead in sin, why do any of us choose to follow the light?

The question should be: Why do some of us reject the light?

If I offered you a million dollars, no strings attached, would you take it? Of course you would. Why would you take it? Well, that is obvious, or should be. Why would you refuse it?

It's obvious why someone would want Christ's gift of salvation. It's only pride and an unwillingness to submit to the authority of God that keeps people from receiving the light.

Romans 1
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened

Everyone knows God exists, whether they will admit it or not. Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom. 1:19)
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. (Rom. 1:20)

This is not saving knowledge, but knowledge of the God of creation, and rejection of this knowledge leads to a darkened heart.

So, you are asking the wrong question. Although I know why you're doing it.

 

[Allan]

In 1 Cor. 4:7 : For who makes you different from anyone else ? What do you have that you did not receive ? And if you did receive it , why do you boast as though you did not ?

In 2 Cor. 4:6 it relates this info : For God ... made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ .

Allan , the Lord made us alive while we were still dead in our sin . He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness into his wonderful light . He chose to give us birth . It doesn't depend on a person's willpower or effort , but on God's mercy . The Lord opens hearts to respond to Himself . He chooses to give us birth -- not us . The Father has to enable one to come to Jesus . Some can't believe because the Lord has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts . No one seeks God , no one understands . God translates people into His kingdom alone -- with no help from man .

I agree with brother bob, you can't be made alive to be then made alive.
Secondly, scripture refutes you, not me. Scriptures says, point blank, they choose to reject the truths of God and then God gave them as well as blinded them. BUT ONLY AFTER!!

Your right Rippon. God chooses to give us birth and does so to any WHO CALL UPON HIM. However, The new birth is salvation/regeneration, and you will find this is true if you look up both times regeneration occurs in scripture. The new birth is always equated with salvation.

Your right again, no seeks after God. Man left to himself will never seek out God. That is why God came to man, and reveals His truth to all men. God seeks out men and men are responsible for the truths God reveals to them.

Your right again, that God saves with no help (works) from man, man must only believe. Belief is not works, but belief is possible of EVERY man.
Rom 4

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[npetreley]

This verse is not about salvation. Paul is speaking to the church, people who are already saved. The "what" in this verse is referring to gifts given by God. Not salvation as they already had that.

Can you name anything about you -- any talents, any intelligence, any tastes, any features, anything at all, that was not given to you by God?

 

[npetreley]

Then your read in the verses, and in them it states they deny the truth revealed that COULD save them, and after rejecting Gods truth THEN God gave them over, and that they are given a choice to obey or reject.

How can these potentially save them if it was not FOR THEM. There is NO potentail saving or hypothetical saving in your understanding. Christ died to ONLY save His, and His only are given the potential of salvation. Yet scripture state explicitly the exact opposite of your view.

The answer to you question of 'why', is 'they' or 'we'.
You come to the arguement with a flawed answer and no other answer suffices your view no matter how biblical it must meet your theological. God is the reason some will call, and some will reject because He makes them to.
WRONG! God gave them the choice to accept His truth or reject it.

Why do some accept and others reject, the answer resides in their choice not their nature.

You continue to evade the question. "they deny the truth revealed that COULD save them". This is not the why, this is the what. This is what they decided - to deny the truth revealed to them. We've already established WHY they deny the truth. Pride, etc.

NOW, for the umpteenth time, what made the difference such that you decided to accept the truth? Why did you accept it, but the other person didn't? What is different about you that you would accept it, yet the other person didn't?

Stop telling me about my own soteriology. I know it pretty well. I'm asking YOU, from YOUR reference point of free-will, what makes the difference that you would accept it when others rejected it?

Are you ever going to answer this question or not? If not, then stop wasting my time.

 

[Amy.G]

Can you name anything about you -- any talents, any intelligence, any tastes, any features, anything at all, that was not given to you by God?

What intelligence?

Sin? The stupid mistakes I've made? Pride? Arrogance? Bad eyesight? :laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

AresMan;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
How on earth could anyone be made "alive", unless they were dead.

AresMan;
This sounds like a viable answer:
Quote: (Lets take them one at a time)
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened [made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins
1. What was He talking about making alive, I mean the body was already alive so He couldn't of meant the body, so it must of been the Spirit or Soul.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2. I really don't see where this scripture fits in "being made alive" , unless you know some other scriptures telling us we were at one time dead in sin?


Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation [behavior] in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
3. Same here, you have to know other scriptures before this one makes any sense, like "dead" in sin.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
4. This one I don't know what your point is.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
5. This scripture here gets to the kernel and we know the body was alive, so it must of been talking about something else that was "dead". I believe it to be the "soul", for the soul that sinneth shall die.

Not one! of your answers says He made the alive "alive". They all say He made the dead "alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
The already "alive" could not be made "alive".

AresMan;
I assume the first "alive" is physical life, and the second "alive" is spiritual life. If this is the case, then yes, that is exactly what happens when someone is saved.

No, we are talking about spiritual "alive" and spiritual "dead".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
We all were dead in sin, some of us chose to follow the light and some loved the darkness much more.

AresMan:
Since we were all dead in sin, why do any of us choose to follow the light?

Because we don't want to die and go to a devil's hell, or at least that is why I chose to follow the light and suppose that is the reason all the others chose light, that did.

This is not "slight of the hand", where you move from soul to body and back and forth.

Maybe you should reread my posts?

 

[npetreley]

What intelligence?

Sin? The stupid mistakes I've made? Pride? Arrogance? Bad eyesight? :laugh:

:laugh:

If God didn't give you anything good, then where did you get the good sense to choose to receive Christ? :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

:laugh:

If God didn't give you anything good, then where did you get the good sense to choose to receive Christ? :laugh:

Read my earlier post. Everybody can choose Christ. I'm not special.

 

[npetreley]

Read my earlier post. Everybody can choose Christ. I'm not special.

Well, you're definitely special, since you're my sister in Christ. I would say that anyone CAN choose Christ in the sense that nobody is stopping them. Regardless, I was just teasing you with the last post.

 

[Amy.G]

Thanks NP! :wavey:

:1_grouphug:

 

[Allan]

You continue to evade the question. "they deny the truth revealed that COULD save them". This is not the why, this is the what. This is what they decided - to deny the truth revealed to them. We've already established WHY they deny the truth. Pride, etc.

NOW, for the umpteenth time, what made the difference such that you decided to accept the truth? Why did you accept it, but the other person didn't? What is different about you that you would accept it, yet the other person didn't?

Stop telling me about my own soteriology. I know it pretty well. I'm asking YOU, from YOUR reference point of free-will, what makes the difference that you would accept it when others rejected it?

Are you ever going to answer this question or not? If not, then stop wasting my time.

:laugh: Are you kidding, I enjoy wasting your time :laugh:

The answer has been given but much like those who wont recieve the gospel truth in like manner you will not receive the answer given. You choose not to.
Scripture does not address why a person believes and why another doesn't because it is every persons "choice" to do. God GAVE that choice. I have given scripture and an answer. Scripture shows only once they rejected the truth did God give them over. "WHY" did God wait? Becuase it is incumbent upon man to believe or reject.

You are trying to get a Calvinistic answer from a non-Calvinist and you wont get one. It's not that we don't want to say it, it is because your version of the answer is an unbiblical one.

Edited to add:
Why do some accept and others reject, the answer resides in their choice not their nature.

 

[npetreley]

:laugh: Are you kidding, I enjoy wasting your time :laugh:

Obviously. Like with this total nonsense:

Why do some accept and others reject, the answer resides in their choice not their nature.

Why does one choose to accept and another choose to reject? Because they made a choice.

Brilliant reasoning, sherlock.

I'm done wasting my time with your nonsense. Although the fact that you can't answer the question speaks volumes, anyway, so I guess it accomplished something.