Why do people choose differently?

This is exactly why I went back to just lurking and not posting. I'm so tired of the self righteous judgemental attitudes of many people on this forum. Web, a piece of advice. Quit judging people's salvation based upon flawed theology. If they are born again, believe Christ died for our sins, was raised again, have faith in His work and confess Him as Savior, then they are saved. Romans 10: 10. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation. 11. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.''
12. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13. For "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.''

Now unless you want to call God a liar, then you need to ask for forgivness for judging the salvation of many Catholics. What will you do web?

 

Unsaved catholics? Of course!

The majority yes.

That's contradictory. Faith + works for salvation = no faith. It can't be both. You are either saved by grace through faith apart from works, or you are not saved.

It's more than flawed theology. If you think that, you don't have a good grasp on catholicism. Of course if a catholic puts their faith in Christ they will be saved. If their faith lies in catholicism (which is works salvation) they will perish.

The Bible state that Christ is THE WAY. Catholicism doesn't teach that. It's more than flawed theology. My "flawed theology" (understanding of God) and soteriology lines with Scripture...we are saved by grace through faith. Catholicsim does NOT teach that.

 

I see you are back to the "old" reformedbeliever. Maybe I'll start only lurking from now on, too.

 

Speaking of trying to wiggle out of something........... :laugh:

James said that faith without works is dead web. I'm not going to sit here and argue back and forth with you web. You really need to ask the Lord for forgivness for you hateful judgemental spirit. Its up to you. I'm done with you.

 

Catholicism is more than "flawed theology". Please learn what catholicism teaches.

And please show where I have stated contrary to this...

Well for one, I don't need you telling me what I need to be doing. If you want to believe a works based salvation is the way to Christ...feel free. There will be catholics in Heaven. The catholics in Heaven will not put their faith in the "church", but in Christ. Why they don't leave catholicism after being saved, who knows. There will be Baptists in hell. They will not have put their faith in Christ, regardless of what the Baptist confession states. That's not the point I'm getting across in this thread. Those who cry "Lord, Lord" put their faith in works to save them. Catholicism is one of many works based religions that believe works saves, and not Christ.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. These works are done AFTER one is saved.

You really shouldn't call my spirit judgemental...when you keep stating what I "need" to do. Look in the mirror, brother. I do "hate" religions in general that tread on the blood of Christ, btw. I don't "hate" the people caught up in these religions, though.

 

Webdog and Reformedbeliever,

You know…I think the way you both speak to each other is disastrously awful. As Christians, more is expected from each of you.

Read:

Matthew 22:34-40: 34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (ESV: My Emphasis)

Matthew 7:12: “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. (ESV)

When you sling insults and talk to each other in this way, how does it demonstrate the proper love Christians are required to show each other? It Doesn’t

Neither of you would wish the other to talk to you in the manner you talk to him. Therefore, you must not do it.

Unfortunately, by treating each other in the way you have been treating each other, you call into question your own Christianity.

Brothers in Christ ought not to act this way. I would encourage you both to do two things:

1. Repent—It is not your name only you bring into question, it is the Lord’s as well.

2. Reconcile

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

While I wouldn't classify it as "awful", I do agree to an extent. I wish reformedbeliever would leave the ad hominems out of this forum. When attacked, I tend to lean more towards the "fight" than "flight"...which is not the wisest choice in some cases. I thought we were past that here on the BB...but I guess not.
I think it may be time to say bye-bye to the BB for me....if not for a while, for good. I just found out today I'm going to be a dad again, and my time can be spent more wisely elsewhere, instead of defending myself from another believer's "self righteous, judgemental" accusations and "hatefulness" towards false religions. That gets real old, and allows satan to get a foothold on how I perceive my brothers and sisters in Christ.
I wish you the Lord's best, reformedbeliever, with the church plant and exchange student.

 

There are two answers to and an explanation with this question:

1) The Sovereignty of God

John 1

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.​

2) The choice of man
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.​

Why they reject or receive Him:​

1) Man's love of sin (reject)
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

2 God's choice (accept)
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
​

Strong's 2038 ergazomai {er-gad'-zom-ahee} wrought
Meaning:
1) to work, labour, do work
2) to trade, to make gains by trading, "do business"
3) to do, work out 3a) exercise, perform, commit 3b) to cause to exist, produce
4) to work for, earn by working, to acquire

3 is my choice, God's works it out in His Sovereignty.
If someone wants to put man's choice into that equation then God can work out that scenario as well.​

I think He's smart enough to do either.​

HankD​

 

Actually is it specific TO the discussion, for if all are condemend by the action of one, even so ALL (all mankind) have the hope of life.

Man will not seek after God until God reveals truth to man. He may seek God for the right reasons or wrong reasons but he will not seek God of or by himself unless God first seek out man, thus the premise of Rom 1 regarding those who reject him or turn His truths after their own lust. It is at THAT point God gives them over and not before.

Now if you go back and take each one of those in context you will see just how off base you are. I take scriptrue for it says. God grace has been revealed to all men...That Jesus is the propitiation for our sins but not ours only but the sins of the whole world... and many many more like them. Just because God revealed His law to Jacob does not mean that God intended Jacod and his decendants to keep Gods laws a secret. They were to be the example that all may see and know

Again a false beginning leads you to a empty end. He died for all but all do not receive, for those who come to God must believe... What you fail to realize in your trying to twist the verse is that "one act of righteouness was justification THAT BRINGS LIFE FOR all men. It doesn't establish life for all but brings it FOR. The Greek usage here implies potential for all NOT only to some.

If you would believe what scripture says you wouldn't need to build all these straw figures.
In one act we were made sinners with no hope, in the other act all given the hope of coming back to God. Don't you know much about biblical slavery? Though your a slave but there will come a time where you can be set free yet you can choose to remain a slave.

And thus you incorrect view of what soveriegnty means.

I said good IN A NON-SALVIC sense. Jesus even compares mans goodness towards his children to that of Gods goodness. Either Christ is a liar or your view is. I'll take Christ, I think he knew what he was talking about.

It would help you a great deal to take scripture for what it says and then all will fall into place. A person comes to God by then coming into a relationship with Son and they will only know Him through the preaching of the Word. We are command to preach the word to all men everywhere and command them to repent. God reveals to man truths and if he will believe that God will send a person to them that will expound Christ to those who are not in ear shot (so to speak) Much like the Etheopian. As he desired to know more God sent one (even using supernatural means) to him that he would believe and be saved.

As a nation (majority) they are cut off, but not in the idividuals sense. They (the majority) are hardened because of unbelief. It is part of the covenant of Duet 29 and 30 in which they are under regarding the first coventant. Their restoration is part of the fulfillment of that covenant in which God says if THEIR heart turn away so they will not hear... they choose to turn a deaf ear and is why scripture speaks to as "harden not YOUR heart as in the days of provocation" But scripture is plain they will be brought back in.

And this is what is so tiring about dealing with your inaccurate handling of Gods word, you never take things in context. If you will notice PRIOR to this Israel choose to rebel and God judged them. But here God is the one identified as one who is maintaining thier rebellion and not bringing them back. THEY choose to wander first and rebel and scripture is specific to that. KEEP THINGS IN CONTEXT.

You REALLY need to study the scripture John, I'm serious.
Go back and look this up in the Greek. You are so off base you are about to border on heresy, but I at least think more of you than that.

No that is not what I said.

I agree that man can DO (works) nothing worthy of salvition except believe (Rom 4:3-7) since belief according to this specific scripture ISN'T a work. Deal that verse in context. Yes, He did turn the 5 virgins away because they were not ready for Him because they did not believe He was coming. They did not believe...

Yes, but your understanding of that verse is in direct contention with Rom 4:4-5. So it is not the verse that is incorrect but you understanding of it. Research it alittle more and get back to me.

Let me get this straight, you DENY the scripture that states faith is NOT a work.
"to the man WHO DOES NOT WORK, but trusts God... his faith is credited to him (verse 4 specifically states this credit is as a gift NOT an obligation or something earned through work)
I stand completely amazed that you will take your theology and over the scriptrue when it blantanly says faith is not a works. There is no other speculation or interpretation. Faith IS NOT a work.

Actaully you need to recheck that.
Jesus answered them, when they asked "what must we do that WE MIGHT WORK the WORKs of God." They were speaking of doing something (work - Rom 4) to please God.
Jesus answered and said "This is the Work of God (literally Godly work), that you believe..." Jesus was showing them in accordance to their question there was no physical thing that could be done in a Godly or suffient manner except to believe in the one Jesus sent.
So they answer: what sign will you show us that we may believe. They understood exactly what Jesus said. That they could not do any physical work that is acceptable to God except to beleive so they asked Jesus to show them some greater sign that they might beleive! Then they asked "what do YOU Work" or "what is YOUR Work" that we may beleive it after we see your new and greater sign. Simple context destroy your proof-texting.

Yes, and a good one to. I have an opening in my Sunday school class if your interested.

 

Sometimes, but in all truth I just don't see what you are saying is there by virture of context (IMO). I find no biblical support for faith being a gift, regeneration before salvation, except to establish the view for effectual calling, which again is not actaully spoken of in scripture but postulated based on the premise of these two in conjunction with a few scriptures speaking of 'the called'. Now if anything I can at least see an honest biblical dealing potentially with 'the called' but still no substantial support when the other main precepts are removed.

I agree with web on this one regarding one person and not to base anything substantial upon something that is not specific to what we are speaking of. Pulling principle are fine but we can not biblically go further than that. Yes some do seek God FOR themselves (pride and or fame) but Jesus specifcally addresses a particular group of unbelievers that He distiquishes Himself from all the others. Jesus states in Mat 7... Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven...Many shall say to me in that say Lord, Lord have we not...in your name" they did what they did under the assumption it was for Him. They sought to do for him. That is my main point. If they are enemies of God, Haters of God, at emnity with God, and will never seek after God...then how can there be anyone who would even WANT to do something in His name? There shouldn't be one person who would call themselves a believer/Christian regardless of their personal pride and desire for fame to make such a claim, it would be against their nature to do so and they are bound to obey their nature. Their natural man wouldn't allow it. Yet scripture says there will be false professing believers, and those who are doing all that they are for Him becuase they are assuming to be doing it in His authority. How can the natural man understand all the things that believes grasp spiritually (since the natural man can not recieve the things of God) But we find in place like prov 1 and Rom 1 where this is exactly the case. Something is not making sense.

I agree, wholeheartedly. I have encountered this myself with tongues. I will not go into the specifics here but the person believed what they had and was doing was through God under the authority of the Holy Spirit. But when the spirit was confronted, their wonderful tongues of God became plain english cursing, and defaming of God which surprized the person terribly. I personall don't think they actually cast out each other but that the one (or however many) will just not be as active or lie domant for a while. This is why those demon possessions always come back after a little time. But that does not negate the fact they seek God for whatever selfish or religious reasons, when they hate God and will not recieve the things of God.

Neither of those are contexually true positions regarding scripture.
What scripture does say is that God revealed truth and man either believe it and was saved or he rejected it not only maintaining his condemnation but choosing it for himself. Man is given a choice and that choice is to beleive God or not. Nothing more and nothing less. He is given a choice by God to accept it or reject it. Scripture never actaully speaks to "why" one person accepts or not but that a person choice or not but does state the resposiblity of that choice squarely on the perverbial shoulders of the one who is choosing and thus man is responsible because man is able to respond to Gods revealtion of truth.

 

I understand what you mean. I started a new Church work 3 weeks ago here in De Smet.
I also agree regarding the attitudes on here. I find myself casting barbs and quick one liners more often than I should. I am seriously considering just removing myself from the BB completely because there isn't any real Godly interaction amongst us hardly at all. When I first came on it was fun, with interesting articles to place a view or post in some topics because there wasn't much scripture on it or questions regarding certain scriptures where a person was desiring input and people where sharing insights more than word play, with a couple of C/non-C debates going on inside a couple of threads. But what once was more like long distance fellowship is more like the Civil War.

I can say, regardless of what others think or feel you have maintained with me a good and Godly testimony. We can disagree on some things but we keep the main thing the main. I have truly listened to much of what you say, for it challanged me on issues and made me reasearch deeper on others. Some of my views have changed due to the BB. I will always put my rebutal in but only after I go back and examine what another says concerning scripture. I might not agree but I do research it (and sometimes the same thing many times). I have appreciated your friendship and believe it or not speak of our friendship with others. I have only met one other Calvinist on here to whom I developed a friendship of a similar kind but he no longer comes to the BB. I wish there were more spurgeon type Calvinists in our day, Moody's, and Wesleyians as well. They honored each other. Spurgon went so far as to allow Moody to preach in his church regarding salvation and supported verbally and in presense Moody's revival meetings. He also said that if there were two apostlitic positions open during his time and that he could choose whom was appointed, he would give one to Whitefield and the other to John Wesley (for he was a man above reproach in Godliness and centered on God)

I will pray for you in this. The biggest key is patience and Gods leading as to what and when to speak. I have had the opportunity of leading a couple foriegn exchange students to the a knowledge of Christ and all three were athiests. I just used Jesus principle of speaking of earthly things first (science, nature) to show their was a possiblity of God. Once they would acknowledge even this small thing it was not long before they were broken before the Lord repenting and calling out for mercy. 2 were German students both from areas where there is only 1 church and it is Catholic anywhere neard their city. The other was a boy from Sweden. Since she already believes there is a God, that part is at least earier but showing it is not the same God and his prophet is not the true prophet will be more difficult because even if they aren't active muslims they are devoted to their beliefs on punishment of death. But what a glorious salvation it would be to see one cast their life aside for the saving grace of Christ Jesus.

It is a great way to share. They come over lost and by Gods grace return missionaries! AMEN!

Love ya brother,
Allan V.

 

Now why can't everyone in these rooms get along like this....Allan, this includes you once-in-a-while............lolol:thumbs: :godisgood:

 

Yes, maam. :wavey: :tonofbricks:

 

lol.now you use this to dump bricks on my head since you can't do it yourself, huh?:laugh:

 

people choose differently,
1, Because of the way that they were raised
2 The frame of mind that they are in while they are seeking answers
3 Do we really ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit and be completely open to what he is showing us in not only scripture but in all that we do?

 

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

Great passage. This seems to be saying that the reason man doesn't come into the light is because they don't want their lives of sin to be shown for what they really are. This goes back to the same pride that befalled Lucifer and Eve.