People are only able to be willing to turn to God because of the work of the Holy Spirit.
God bless.
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Why do people get saved in spite of the modern gospel?
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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People are only able to be willing to turn to God because of the work of the Holy Spirit.
God bless.
In answer to the O.P., the Puritans used to say that God can draw a straight line with a bent stick.
However.......
There is a faith, even a faith in Christ, which is not saving faith.
There are so many examples of this is Scripture that I wonder why anyone would doubt it, but here's just one.
Acts 8:8, 21. 'Then Simon himself believed also; and when he had been baptized, he continued with Philip...........But Peter said to him, "........You have neither part not portion in this matter; for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore........"'
However.......
There is a faith, even a faith in Christ, which is not saving faith.
There are so many examples of this is Scripture that I wonder why anyone would doubt it, but here's just one.
Acts 8:8, 21. 'Then Simon himself believed also; and when he had been baptized, he continued with Philip...........But Peter said to him, "........You have neither part not portion in this matter; for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore........"'
Of course.
It gets tedious repeating/referencing John 6:44 in every post regarding salvation, so I have simply assumed that people understand that I hold to that position. I think what gets people confused is that I am not a proponent the theology of irresistible grace.
Well you know what they say about assumption, lol.
And what one might assume from your statement (and I think a lot of people actually hold to it) is that man in some way contributes.
I would agree in regards to irresistible grace, as it is not hard to understand "...God so loved the world."
It is clear that the Lord is speaking of the world as a whole here...
John 16:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
...because the world is identified as unbelieving.
I take the position that not one man will stand before God and say "But I didn't know, you didn't tell me!" God has made provision that all men could be saved, and those who are not, are not because of the only free will they have a right to exercise while under conviction...to reject the Truth.
God bless.
To clarify, I believe that humans participate in their salvation, but they do not "contribute" in the form of earning anything. There may be effort, but not earning. Effort is action, earning is an attitude.
The entire issue stems from the lack of understand God. the five point Hyper-Calvinist and the Armenian do not pay attention to the character of the Creation nor to the character of God. God created the Time/Space Continuum for the benefit of man meaning He is not contained within what He has created. No, quite the contrary.
Consider, please, God is Omnipotent as well as Omnipresent. God's Omnipotence is the illustration that there is nothing God is powerless to complete but the real key lays within His Omnipresence.
It is easy to understand that we can go anywhere in the world and God is there with us. It is not even difficult to believe God can and does do this with every one of His children but it does not stop there.
There is scripture to assure us that God's time, remember He created our Time/Space Continuum from outside of it, is not our time. (2Pet 3:8) Follow this with the facts that God is Omnipotent and Omniscient and you can begin to see where this goes.
Yes, God wrote the Book of Life because He knew who would be saved because God is everywhere, not as we look at it, God's ways are not our ways. Right this moment, God is here with me and He is there with you but just as God is here and is there, God is and always was in the future and the past.
God watched every single one of us take His Son or reject Him before He create the first thing.
But now a question. Considering that no scripture, Passage of Scripture nor collection of scriptures can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it, where does the book of James fit into all of this and as well, chapter 7 of Matthew? Jesus teaches us to judge and not the inverse but we are to judge their Fruit, their works, so how does anyone proclaim the endless string that enters the front door, passes the pulpit and the baptistery and exits out the back door, never to darken the threshold again as saved?
Consider, please, God is Omnipotent as well as Omnipresent. God's Omnipotence is the illustration that there is nothing God is powerless to complete but the real key lays within His Omnipresence.
It is easy to understand that we can go anywhere in the world and God is there with us. It is not even difficult to believe God can and does do this with every one of His children but it does not stop there.
There is scripture to assure us that God's time, remember He created our Time/Space Continuum from outside of it, is not our time. (2Pet 3:8) Follow this with the facts that God is Omnipotent and Omniscient and you can begin to see where this goes.
Yes, God wrote the Book of Life because He knew who would be saved because God is everywhere, not as we look at it, God's ways are not our ways. Right this moment, God is here with me and He is there with you but just as God is here and is there, God is and always was in the future and the past.
God watched every single one of us take His Son or reject Him before He create the first thing.
But now a question. Considering that no scripture, Passage of Scripture nor collection of scriptures can ever be fully understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it, where does the book of James fit into all of this and as well, chapter 7 of Matthew? Jesus teaches us to judge and not the inverse but we are to judge their Fruit, their works, so how does anyone proclaim the endless string that enters the front door, passes the pulpit and the baptistery and exits out the back door, never to darken the threshold again as saved?
Oxymoron.
Those poor Armenians always being confused with Arminians. Really man.
If my spelling offends you that much, are you approaching me with the heart of Christ?
Thought 5 pointers were really just Calvinist?
christina pickle
New Member
Election is misunderstood. The Bible teaches election, but it is always based on the foreknowledge of God. I peter 1:2
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied"... God is not constrained by time like we are. He sees the beginning and the end all at the same time that he is living eternally. God chooses people based on the decisions he already knows that they are going to make in life. If you choose Christ, you are one of the elect. Again, Romans 8:29 says that those that God foreknew he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his son. People are getting saved today because of the power of the Holy Spirit and the love/mercy of God. God already knew/knows who they are. He knew from the beginning of time. God does not make some people lost and some saved. However, he does blind the eyes of some people mainly the Jews. This is also taught in Romans.(but that's a whole other topic)
God blessExcept that the terminology used to describe foreknowledge is more than just God seeing us accepting jesus, its that he is the cause of that!Election is misunderstood. The Bible teaches election, but it is always based on the foreknowledge of God. I peter 1:2
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied"... God is not constrained by time like we are. He sees the beginning and the end all at the same time that he is living eternally. God chooses people based on the decisions he already knows that they are going to make in life. If you choose Christ, you are one of the elect. Again, Romans 8:29 says that those that God foreknew he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his son. People are getting saved today because of the power of the Holy Spirit and the love/mercy of God. God already knew/knows who they are. He knew from the beginning of time. God does not make some people lost and some saved. However, he does blind the eyes of some people mainly the Jews. This is also taught in Romans.(but that's a whole other topic)
I had God settle this for me about 20 years ago, one day as I was studying Romans trying to get my head wrapped completely around the concept. Some teachers want to make God into a Capricious God but John 3:16 and so many other references prove He is not. God loves everyone of us, He even sent His own Son to become flesh and to die for us.
The issue for me was settled when I stopped the same ugly habit all of my friends and the members of my class were making. If you can see the Bible as penned by about 40 authors but composed by one God and therefore of one context from "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Rev. 22, you are at least halfway to what I learned.
There are two properties we all tend to forget when we want to settle Biblical Issues and without them we will remain lost to the knowledge god wants us t figure out. God is Omnipotent meaning there is nothing He cannot do. Now as important as that, God is Omniscient and that means there is no place or time that God is not.
We live on the earth our LORD created, contained in the Time/Space Continuum He created for our benefit! To have done that He was not trapped inside of it but rather was outside and entered into it.
We see a couple of times that a thousand years is as a day unto our LORD.Our Time is not His time. God having created this for our benefit is not contained and is not constrained! No He is here with us, right now but he is also in he future and has always been there at the same time also.
He knew the very instant that Stupid would fall on his face and beg forgiveness before He created the world because he was right there to record it and write the Book of Life, and the world had not been created then,
God is not contained, period. I pray this blesses your hearts, it did mine.
The issue for me was settled when I stopped the same ugly habit all of my friends and the members of my class were making. If you can see the Bible as penned by about 40 authors but composed by one God and therefore of one context from "In the beginning..." through the very last word of Rev. 22, you are at least halfway to what I learned.
There are two properties we all tend to forget when we want to settle Biblical Issues and without them we will remain lost to the knowledge god wants us t figure out. God is Omnipotent meaning there is nothing He cannot do. Now as important as that, God is Omniscient and that means there is no place or time that God is not.
We live on the earth our LORD created, contained in the Time/Space Continuum He created for our benefit! To have done that He was not trapped inside of it but rather was outside and entered into it.
We see a couple of times that a thousand years is as a day unto our LORD.Our Time is not His time. God having created this for our benefit is not contained and is not constrained! No He is here with us, right now but he is also in he future and has always been there at the same time also.
He knew the very instant that Stupid would fall on his face and beg forgiveness before He created the world because he was right there to record it and write the Book of Life, and the world had not been created then,
God is not contained, period. I pray this blesses your hearts, it did mine.
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