Why do so many Christians confuse verses about the Rapture and the Second Coming?

[John of Japan]

Second Coming is when we are gloried and risen in bodily forms!

You didn't answer the question. The post-trib position does not really answer my question if it is a position that the rapture and 2nd coming occur simultaneously. In 1 Thessalonians 4, the saints rise up to meet Jesus. What's the point in that if Jesus is coming down to earth to reign? Are the saints so excited to see Jesus that they jump up and down and--viola!--they can fly all of a sudden?

 

[percho]

You didn't answer the question. The post-trib position does not really answer my question if it is a position that the rapture and 2nd coming occur simultaneously. In 1 Thessalonians 4, the saints rise up to meet Jesus. What's the point in that if Jesus is coming down to earth to reign? Are the saints so excited to see Jesus that they jump up and down and--viola!--they can fly all of a sudden?

My thoughts.

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Gen 2:24 NKJV

Must the bride of Christ and the Christ become one flesh? Eph 5:31.32

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:42,53
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede [where, in what manner?] those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus [as what, in what manner?] we shall always be with the Lord.

Does that take place, at the last trumpet, in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at he voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, in the air?

Also:

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Phil 3:20,21
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at [fn] [NU-Text omits therefore and reads and by for at] His appearing and His kingdom:
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Tim 4:1,8 NKJV

Is the one flesh necessary to the establishment of the kingdom on the earth?

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

 

[John of Japan]

My thoughts.

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Gen 2:24 NKJV

Must the bride of Christ and the Christ become one flesh? Eph 5:31.32

Metaphorically, yes. I believe there will be a marriage supper of the Lamb.

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor 15:42,53
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede [where, in what manner?] those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus [as what, in what manner?] we shall always be with the Lord.

Does that take place, at the last trumpet, in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at he voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, in the air?

I'm not sure what you are asking me here.

Also:

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Phil 3:20,21
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at [fn] [NU-Text omits therefore and reads and by for at] His appearing and His kingdom:
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Tim 4:1,8 NKJV

Is the one flesh necessary to the establishment of the kingdom on the earth?

You are a preterist, if I remember correctly. So what does this have to do with the OP?

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50

Again, what point are you making with this verse?

Now, if you are a preterist, this post has absolutely nothing to do with my post that you quoted. Your whole post is a non sequitur.

 

[percho]

Metaphorically, yes. I believe there will be a marriage supper of the Lamb.


I'm not sure what you are asking me here.


You are a preterist, if I remember correctly. So what does this have to do with the OP?


Again, what point are you making with this verse?

I am as far from a preterist as one can be.......................

Metaphorically is the glorification of the body of the church like unto the glorified body of Christ the same as being, one flesh?



Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: 1 John 4:2,3
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds; and heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;

he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;' and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:38,38

What about Jesus was not yet glorified?

who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

Was that glory given to the flesh spiritual body of Christ at his resurrection? Will we be of the same flesh spiritual body ay his coming and our catching away? Thus, entering, inheriting, the kingdom of God with Him?

Precede into what, 1 Thes 4:15?

 

[canadyjd]

You didn't answer the question. The post-trib position does not really answer my question if it is a position that the rapture and 2nd coming occur simultaneously. In 1 Thessalonians 4, the saints rise up to meet Jesus. What's the point in that if Jesus is coming down to earth to reign? Are the saints so excited to see Jesus that they jump up and down and--viola!--they can fly all of a sudden?

Oooh, oooh, oooh, I can answer this one.

There is no 1000 year reign upon the earth.

Jesus comes back, Saints are raptured (collected by angels) we all go to heaven for the judgment and live for eternity in the presence of God.

peace to you

 

[percho]

What's the point in that if Jesus is coming down to earth to reign? JOJ

So - 1 John 3:8 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

To rule with him, on the earth.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [fn]through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:11 NASB

Does that verse describe regeneration? Does that verse take place at the moment of 1 Cor 15:52,53 and 1 Thes 4:15-17?

IMHO, that is why.

 

[John of Japan]

Oooh, oooh, oooh, I can answer this one.

There is no 1000 year reign upon the earth.

Jesus comes back, Saints are raptured (collected by angels) we all go to heaven for the judgment and live for eternity in the presence of God.

peace to you

Um, you're not paying attention to the OP.

 

[John of Japan]

I am as far from a preterist as one can be.......................

Good to know.

Metaphorically is the glorification of the body of the church like unto the glorified body of Christ the same as being, one flesh?

I don't think so, but then this seems obtuse to me.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: 1 John 4:2,3
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds; and heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;

he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;' and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:38,38

What about Jesus was not yet glorified?

Is this a trick question? I'd say His physical body.

who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

Was that glory given to the flesh spiritual body of Christ at his resurrection? Will we be of the same flesh spiritual body ay his coming and our catching away? Thus, entering, inheriting, the kingdom of God with Him?

Precede into what, 1 Thes 4:15?

Sorry, I don't get what you are trying to say here. No offense, but what's with all the questions? Just say what you believe.

 

[John of Japan]

Second Coming is when we are gloried and risen in bodily forms!

Still not answering my question.

 

[Iconoclast]

Oooh, oooh, oooh, I can answer this one.

There is no 1000 year reign upon the earth.

Jesus comes back, Saints are raptured (collected by angels) we all go to heaven for the judgment and live for eternity in the presence of God.

peace to you

The angels are the reapers and remove all that offend.Then the earth is renewed, the curse taken away, then we live in it.

 

[canadyjd]

Um, you're not paying attention to the OP.

Well, it’s possible I misunderstood. No need to be sad. I thought the question was why was the 2nd coming confused with the rapture?

I responded by pointing to Matthew 24, where Jesus reveals the rapture occurs at His 2nd coming and is immediately followed by the great throne judgment.

You were asking, if I remember correctly, if we are raptured, meet Jesus in the air and then return to earth for a thousand year reign.

I responded there is no 1000 year reign on the earth, so that answers your question. We don’t return after the rapture.

So if I misunderstood somewhere, please let me know.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

The angels are the reapers and remove all that offend.Then the earth is renewed, the curse taken away, then we live in it.

I hope not. I’m looking forward to living in heaven in the presence of God. What could be better than that?

peace to you

 

[percho]

Oooh, oooh, oooh, I can answer this one.

There is no 1000 year reign upon the earth.

Jesus comes back, Saints are raptured (collected by angels) we all go to heaven for the judgment and live for eternity in the presence of God.

peace to you

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:10
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Verb - Future Active Indicative - 1st Person Plural To what/when?

Is that reigning on the earth relative to the kingdom of God of which flesh and blood cannot inherit?

And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. Luke 19:15,17

Does not, "that when he was returned," of Luke 19:15 have to take place and then he gives authority to reign?

 

[percho]

Good to know.


I don't think so, but then this seems obtuse to me.


Is this a trick question? I'd say His physical body.


Sorry, I don't get what you are trying to say here. No offense, but what's with all the questions? Just say what you believe.

Maybe I do not understand.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph 5:31,52

I believe that takes place when this corruption puts on incorruption and this mortal puts in immortality.

That will be as 1 John 3:2 states Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, [For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:] we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. One with him.

I am open to correction.

 

[John of Japan]

I responded there is no 1000 year reign on the earth, so that answers your question. We don’t return after the rapture.

So if I misunderstood somewhere, please let me know.

peace to you

The OP said: "I don't wish to hear about a millennial, post-millennial, etc...so please, keep it to the topic. Thanks."

 

[John of Japan]

Maybe I do not understand.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph 5:31,52

I believe that takes place when this corruption puts on incorruption and this mortal puts in immortality.

When does that occur?

That will be as 1 John 3:2 states Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, [For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:] we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. One with him.

I am open to correction.

Sorry, but I'm still not getting what you are trying to say. Are you pre-mil? Pre-trib? Post-trib? Mid-trib?

 

[JesusFan]

You didn't answer the question. The post-trib position does not really answer my question if it is a position that the rapture and 2nd coming occur simultaneously. In 1 Thessalonians 4, the saints rise up to meet Jesus. What's the point in that if Jesus is coming down to earth to reign? Are the saints so excited to see Jesus that they jump up and down and--viola!--they can fly all of a sudden?

Think that this could be when the 45 day period that seems to be mentioned in the scriptures!

 

[John of Japan]

Think that this could be when the 45 day period that seems to be mentioned in the scriptures!

Don't know what you mean. Please give Scripture.

 

[JesusFan]

Don't know what you mean. Please give Scripture.

denial 12:11 seems to be some confusion over what was meant by him for 1290 and the 1335 days!

 

[John of Japan]

denial 12:11 seems to be some confusion over what was meant by him for 1290 and the 1335 days!

Thank you. Carry on.