Why do some Christian Churches Celebrate Halloween???

[av1611jim]

rbell;
It's amazing isn't it?
Some people actually BELIEVE the scriptures.
I know it's hard for some folks to accept that somebody in THIS modern world would believe something as antiquated as the scriptures, but there you have it in living color.
There REALLY are people who take God seriously at His word.

 

[rbell]

So because I use drama in my ministry here...
...because I let my son dress up in "the armor of God" for our fall festival...
...because I allow my daughter to "play dress up" with a princess outfit...

...are you saying that I don't believe the scriptures?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Since the armor of God is Spiritual and not natural, if your kids are Christian, they should be wearing it daily, not just once a year.

No, on halloween you do not let him dress in the armor of God, you put a costume on him. Big difference.

 

[mcdirector]

My son, the third year MDiv student -- his undergrad degree is in . . .



DRAMA.

Right now, he's in a production of 12th Night and preparing for a revival.

 

[TaliOrlando]

Good Morning!!! I was just thinking though..we critizize Benny Hinn, TD. Jakes, TBN Networks...because we believe that most of what they believe has background from the occult. However we are willing to allow our kids to participate in a Holiday that also has part of the occult. We use excuses that we can preach to people that way, that we dont teach our children the bad about Haloween, ext... but these are just excuses. Do you honestly believe that God is so desperate to save souls that he is willing to use wordly tactics. If something has a background of the occult...we can say.. ohh I dont focus on the dark things just the positive... however that is not from GOD. God doenst want to share you with anything dark and for us to say.. well we only focus on the positive things.. Can there be anything positive about something that is from the occult.

 

[Chemnitz]

Hypocrit means actor therefore dressing up in a costume is a sin, oh brother .

But then you can say anything you want when you ignore the context in which a word is used. When taken in context the warnings of hypocrisy apply only to those who seek to deceive concerning righteousness, not some person playing a part on a stage or kid, dressed as Superman, going around getting some candy. What is a sin is pretending to be righteous when you are not. Get it right folks. People dressing up is not a sin.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Hypocrit means actor therefore dressing up in a costume is a sin, oh brother .

But then you can say anything you want when you ignore the context in which a word is used. When taken in context the warnings of hypocrisy apply only to those who seek to deceive concerning righteousness, not some person playing a part on a stage or kid, dressed as Superman, going around getting some candy. What is a sin is pretending to be righteous when you are not. Get it right folks. People dressing up is not a sin.

What context is there to read into? SFIC gave you specific definitions with specific sources. Do you have a rebuttal that cites another source that would refute what was stated?

Here's a couple more:

"HYP''OCRITE, n.
1. One who feigns to be what he is not; one who has the form of godliness without the power, or who assumes an appearance of piety and virtue, when he is destitute of true religion. (Source: 1828 Webster's)

Hyp"o*crite (?), n. [F., fr. L. hypocrita, Gr. one who plays a part on the stage, a dissembler, feigner. See Hypocrisy.] One who plays a part; especially, one who, for the purpose of winning approbation of favor, puts on a fair outside seeming; one who feigns to be other and better than he is; a false pretender to virtue or piety; one who simulates virtue or piety. (Source: 1913 Webster's)

hypocrite
one who puts on a mask and feigns himself to be what he is not;(Source: Easton's 1897)​

Therefore, when you are watching a play or a movie or television you are watching hypocrites. When you dress up your child in a costume representing something they are not, you are training them up to be hypocrites.

Whether or not it is a sin to be a hypocrite or to watch hypocrites, or to dress our children up as hypocrites, we will all have to make that judgement. However, I would submit that one is deceiving oneself if they are to make the claim that actors are not hypocrites.

 

[webdog]

rufus, you are something else...

Well I guess I'm sinning by reading your posts, because you, av1611 and SFIC are pretending / acting like you are theologians who know how to exegete Scripture. Your posts are from the devil :laugh:

 

[Chemnitz]

What context is there to read into? SFIC gave you specific definitions with specific sources. Do you have a rebuttal that cites another source that would refute what was stated?

Here's a couple more:

"HYP''OCRITE, n.
1. One who feigns to be what he is not; one who has the form of godliness without the power, or who assumes an appearance of piety and virtue, when he is destitute of true religion. (Source: 1828 Webster's)

Hyp"o*crite (?), n. [F., fr. L. hypocrita, Gr. one who plays a part on the stage, a dissembler, feigner. See Hypocrisy.] One who plays a part; especially, one who, for the purpose of winning approbation of favor, puts on a fair outside seeming; one who feigns to be other and better than he is; a false pretender to virtue or piety; one who simulates virtue or piety. (Source: 1913 Webster's)

hypocrite
one who puts on a mask and feigns himself to be what he is not;(Source: Easton's 1897)​

Therefore, when you are watching a play or a movie or television you are watching hypocrites. When you dress up your child in a costume representing something they are not, you are training them up to be hypocrites.

Whether or not it is a sin to be a hypocrite or to watch hypocrites, or to dress our children up as hypocrites, we will all have to make that judgement. However, I would submit that one is deceiving oneself if they are to make the claim that actors are not hypocrites.

sigh... I wasn't contesting the definition. I was contesting the subsequent interpretation and application.

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Is Jesus talking about some kid running around in a costume or a person who will not acknowledge their own sin? He is talking about a person who will not acknowledge their own sin but wants to jump all over somebody else because of their sins.

Matthew 22:15-21 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his talk. 16 And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone's opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances. 17 Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?" 18 But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, "Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19 Show me the coin for the tax." And they brought him a denarius. 20 And Jesus said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" 21 They said, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Again he is admonishing somebody not because they dressed up and played a part but played at being righteous when they are not.

Matthew 23:13-36 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 14 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. 16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.' 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it. 23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! 25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean. 27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Here again we do not see Jesus condemning a person for dressing up, but for playing at being righteous when they are not.

While the word hypocrite can mean actor it is never used as a blanket condemnation for any person who dresses up or plays a part. In ever instance it is used to condemn a person who puts on airs about their righteousness.

 

[rbell]

Since the armor of God is Spiritual and not natural, if your kids are Christian, they should be wearing it daily, not just once a year.

No, on halloween you do not let him dress in the armor of God, you put a costume on him. Big difference.

SFIC...

we didn't celebrate halloween. We had a fall festival. My son dressed wore a breastplate, shield, sword, helmet, etc. He had the Ephesians passage monogrammed on his cape. I thought it was cute, and a good witness.

Perhaps you can re-read my post and see that I put "armor of God" in quotation marks. It's called a figure of speech. Figures of speech are a part of our daily lives. They are even in scripture.

If congress passes a ban authorizing torture, I'll be sure and let you know, so you can resume your work on logic.

Only on the BB would a person be maligned as "sinful" for allowing their kid to be a positive witness at a halloween alternative.

Only on the BB would someone make the crazy assertion that all drama and acting is sinful.

When this level of silliness is reached, I just have to laugh. :laugh:

Ron, I still consider you a pretty cool guy. This makes #4,291 in our list of disagreements. I hope that when you get to heaven, the mansion on your left is occupied by an actor, and the mansion on your right is occupied by a costume designer.

 

[Rufus_1611]

My son, the third year MDiv student -- his undergrad degree is in . . .

DRAMA.

Right now, he's in a production of 12th Night and preparing for a revival.

The Shakespeare play? The one were there's a woman cross-dressed as a man who loves a man but the man doesn't love her because he thinks she's a he and that same woman is loved by another woman because the other woman thinks she's a he?

 

[rbell]

The Shakespeare play? The one were there's a woman cross-dressed as a man who loves a man but the man doesn't love her because he thinks she's a he and that same woman is loved by another woman because the other woman thinks she's a he?

a note of etiquette here...

If you're going to insult someone's son, at least have the decency to do it via PM.

show some class, please.

 

[webdog]

Good luck...

 

[Rufus_1611]

rufus, you are something else...

Well I guess I'm sinning by reading your posts, because you, av1611 and SFIC are pretending / acting like you are theologians who know how to exegete Scripture. Your posts are from the devil :laugh:

The very last thing I want to be is a theologian, nor do I contend that I am one. I am a follower of Christ, nothing more, nothing less, hear to learn and to make arguments for what I believe to be truth.

Theologians take simple things and make them complex. I am so simple that I have to use scripture and dictionaries to define terms. Theologians are so strong they can take simple words and simple concepts with simple definitions and say "no that's not what that word really means", as they have their own self-created dictionaries in their heads. That's impressive and I don't have one of these.

I presume that you consider yourself to be a theologian and I must complement you as your post was very educational. It gave me a direct example of how a theologian should not argue with silly facts but rather demonstrate expert use of ad hominems. I thank you for the education :applause:

 

[Rufus_1611]

a note of etiquette here...

If you're going to insult someone's son, at least have the decency to do it via PM.

show some class, please.

I did not insult anyone, I don't know anyone's son here.

I was inquiring as to whether or not that was the same play that I was familiar with or perhaps it was something else. If there was any insult it was directed at the Shakespeare play not towards any individuals.

If there was offense taken then I apologize.

 

[Rufus_1611]

sigh... I wasn't contesting the definition. I was contesting the subsequent interpretation and application.

The interpretation of the definition is that a hypocrite is someone who is trying to be someone they are not. Thus, some would conclude that it is best not to be a hypocrite.

Is Jesus talking about some kid running around in a costume or a person who will not acknowledge their own sin? He is talking about a person who will not acknowledge their own sin but wants to jump all over somebody else because of their sins.

I submit that you all are a bit sensitive over these issues. I am not jumping all over somebody else because of their sins. I am making an argument that it is wrong to be a hypocrite, spiritually or physically, actor or pharisee. If you disagree so be it, but why everyone takes this stuff so personally is a mystery, unless the message is striking a bit close to the heart.

While the word hypocrite can mean actor it is never used as a blanket condemnation for any person who dresses up or plays a part. In ever instance it is used to condemn a person who puts on airs about their righteousness.

In my view, acting is condemned for acting is the action of hypocrisy. Further, there is no instruction in the Bible for putting on dramas and there is no instruction for Christians to engage in worldly theater. There is damage being done to people by watching movies like Passion of the Christ, or Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia et al as these things are nothing but cunningly devised fables and yet some consider them Christian. Getting back to the heathen practices of Halloween all we are doing is having children play actor/hypocrite on a small stage and this in my view is wrong. If you disagree, so be it.

 

[annsni]

So, when I'm not feeling well, but have to be someplace and put on a 'face' to look like something I'm not (well), then I'm sinning??

Ann

 

[Amy.G]

Matthew
6:16
"Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
6:17
But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
6:18
so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

One man changes his facial expression as a show of righteousness to men, the other changes his expression to show his righteousness to God. Both wore masks so to speak, but only 1 is a hypocrite.

 

[rbell]

R1611,

Hypocrite is a term of deception. An actor does not deceive anyone. We know that the actor and his/her character are two different people.

Let me take the absurdity further and show some logical conclusions:

• Animation would not be inherently evil, since the actors aren't "real" and thus aren't "sinning." But live drama would be an abhorrent abomination, with all the "lying" and all. So watch bugs bunny and be blessed. Watch "the Waltons" and hellfire awaits.
• Children playing "pretend" would be an abomination. When my two-year old girl plays "mommy" with her dolls, she is sinning against God...because she is a "hypocrite" by your definition.
• One of my students was burned in a house fire several years ago. He had to wear a pressure mask. Thus, he was sinning, by your definition.

See what can happen when you take the words of Jesus further than Jesus does? Pure silliness ensues.

 

[EdSutton]

R1611,

Hypocrite is a term of deception. An actor does not deceive anyone. We know that the actor and his/her character are two different people.

Phew! At least I now know I can watch 'Wresting' again! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ed