Why Do Some Reject While Others Receive Salvation?

Wes, I am not sure that I can agree with you here. Without the grace of God working in a sinners heart BEFORE they are saved, then savlation would not be possible. Nor do I think that the whole world has the same grace extended to them. Me a closet Calvinist? Nah! </font>[/QUOTE]God's Grace performs NO WORK IN MAN! Grace is an Attribute of the one possessing it. God's grace toward man is his behavior of Favor for man. So it seems you are confusing Grace with the Hearing of God's word, and the work that hearing does in mans spirit. God said, "for lack of knowledge My people perish" So it is the knowledge that comes from the word of God that does the work in man while God's grace prevails.

There is only ONE God, therefore there is only one God's grace! The whole world is under the same grace. There is no such thing as Saving Grace, or Prevenient Grace, etc. There is God's grace. Man hears the word of God, and comes to faith and thus receives salvation under God's grace. Without God's grace man would die in sin!

 

NOT SO! Without man there would be no faith in God, because there is no other created species with the capability to possess faith in God! Yes, Jesus is the author of our faith, our faith is all about Jesus, and it is faith in Jesus that completes man's faith in God. But the reality is that it is man's faith in God, because God has no faith to give to man!

 

Wes said:

Hail, O Man ! All Power to Thee !
Thou art he that maketh this universe go round !
Thou art he upon whom this universe centereth !
Without thee God cannot be God, for there be none that practiceth faith in Him !
Hail, O Man ! All power to Thee !

 

Hail, O Man ! All Power to Thee !
Thou art he that maketh this universe go round !
Thou art he upon whom this universe centereth !
Without thee God cannot be God, for there be none that practiceth faith in Him !
Hail, O Man ! All power to Thee ! </font>[/QUOTE]Foolishness Pinoybaptist!

There is nothing in what I wrote that elevates man above that of a created being and You know it. You simply dodge and swerve bringing nonsense like this crap into the conversation.

You're losing the argument so you go on the attack of the person. Prove what I say to be wrong so that we can both get an education here.

 

NOT SO! Without man there would be no faith in God, because there is no other created species with the capability to possess faith in God! Yes, Jesus is the author of our faith, our faith is all about Jesus, and it is faith in Jesus that completes man's faith in God. But the reality is that it is man's faith in God, because God has no faith to give to man! </font>[/QUOTE]Wes,
what are you saying NOT SO to, HOLY SCRIPTURE?

In other words, you are saying GOD, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, IS NOT SO ? !

 

That's the same question as:
"why are some people fat and other not"?
"Why are some people smart and others not"?
"Why are some tall and others short"?
"why are some Doctors and others teachers, and still others farmers, and others soldiers, etc., etc.

One thing I do know, You cannot get away with saying that Jesus is a failure in that he did not save all mankind. He completed the Work of the Father that was assigned to him!

Author: one who originates (creates), writes, establishes.
Finisher: one who completes, fills, empties, perfects, etc.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the beginning or origination point of our faith. And our faith is complete when we are able to "cling to" our faith in Jesus by persevering through the trials of this natural life, passing from this life in a condition of and without waivering from that faith in Jesus.

Nevertheless, our individual faith in Jesus is 100% human faith in a 100% divine being by the name of Jesus.

 

NO, I'm saying that Jesus is not to blame for man's failure to believe.

I do not believe in Universal Salvation as you define it.

I believe in UNIVERSAL ATONEMENT FOR SIN.
Atonement is NOT forgiveness
Atonement is NOT Salvation
Atonement is removal of the God established penalty for sin, BY God the Son!

I believe that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in God the son, shall not perish but SHALL HAVE Everlasting life (Salvation from the second death, the death of spirit).

I Believe that God saves those who have FAITH in HIM, while God's grace is present; and that Salvation is not of works, or by anything man does outside of believing which is NOT a work that man does, but a completed work of God! That work of God is that we believe in Jesus, his Son!

NO, God does not give us GRACE, or FAITH! He Gives us Salvation through our FAITH.

I Do not believe in general Election among men! I do not believe that God has a list of those that HE is going to save, because He did all the work necessary for every man's salvation, but he leaves it up to fully capable man to make the choice whether or not he believes in God. By us choosing to believe in God, we bring him much honor and Glory.

I believe that Jesus is God, come to us in the flesh and that He is the Christ! He is the one who saves. It is not his grace that saves, but He
himself who actually saves us.

I do not agree with Calvin's 5-points, nor do I agree with Arminius 100%. I am not Roman Catholic, I am not Mormon, I am not Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, etc., etc. I AM CHRISTIAN!

Post edited to remve inappropriate comment.

[ April 18, 2005, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

Your analogy falls so short it borders on ridiculous and still doesn't answer the question. </font>[/QUOTE]YOU alone know YOUR preferred answer to the question. Why don't you tell us?

 

</font>[/QUOTE]So you are "born-again" twice?

 

Icthus,
Yes, OldRegular does not believe that Jesus can do the job right the first time.

 

Wes,

Where did OR say that? Prove it, or retract it. You will not be permitted to make stuff up about what other people believe. We need a revival of civility in here, and it must start with talking kindly to others and with properly representing what they say.

So please show us where OR does not believe that Jesus can do it right the first time, or you need to retract your statement with an apology.

 

OldRegular
Active Member
Member # 10105

Icon 1 posted 17-04-2005 08:04

A declarative statement about Jesus' inability. I surmized from that statement that OR does not believe Jesus is fully capable of delivering on promises, when I said in response to icthus' post,

If what I said is a violation of the rules then what OR said is a violation of the Sovereignty of Jesus, the Son of God.

I retract my statement relating to OR's faith.

 

Larry, I don't think that Wes has to apologise for anything. Here is the direct quote from OldRegular

"Final response by OldRegular:
I know the answer! It is called the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace. God elects some unto Salvation in Jesus Christ [Ephesians 1:3-6], makes these who are dead in trespass and sin spiritually alive [regeneration] and then gives them faith so that they will respond to the Gospel call [Ephesians 2:1-10; Romans 8:29-30].

Note: "Jesus makes these whom are dead in trespass and sin spirtiually alive [regeneration] and and then gives them faith so that they will respond to the Gospel call" (emphasis mine)

Clearly here it says that a person is "born-again" (regenerated), and the he is given "faith" to accept the Gospel. Hiow can anyone be "born-again" BEFORE they accept the Gospel?

This is being "born-again" TWICE.

Do you understand this, Larry?

 

Icthus,

That is an old discussion that should not be brought back up. Calvinists, nor OR believe that people are saved twice. We conclusively answered that before by pointing out that you have misdefine what it means to be saved.

OR's post, whether one agrees with it or not, does not suggest that Jesus couldn't do it right the first time, nor does it suggest that man is saved twice.

I understand what you said. I have already refuted it. We do not believe that man is saved twice.

 

When you take my statements and return them in any form that does not reflect what I've stated, but instead infers a totally different meaning YOU ARE making a declarative statement regardless of the punctuation marks you use. That is what you've done . . . OFTEN!

You are always deliberately twisting what those who oppose your beliefs say and feeding it back to them as if they said what you say they said. That is "scoundrelism" and you are a master at it!