Why do the lost attend church?

[Brother Bob]

Of course but that doesn't answer my question. But what doctrines do you not preach? Do you preach:

1. Hell

2. heaven

3. repentence

4. sanctification

5. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost

Are there doctrines you refuse to teach from the pulpit? I am like Spurgeon in that I take any doctrine of scripture and make a beeline for the cross each and every time. But in the end doctrine is preached.

I preach everything in the scripture and try with the help of the Lord to tie it in with the Cross. You remove the "chief cornerstone" and all the rest will fall.

I have to go to the gymn, but will continue this if you like, when I return. I don't see where we are differing any, but maybe you are making a point I don't see yet?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Church service exclusively for believers? Go out, but don't allow in? No wonder why churches are getting smaller! All the believers are dying out, and there is no one to take their place! And what's the point of having an invitation at the end of the service, or baptisms, if everyone there has already been saved? Gods Word is for everybody! I don't care if the person is there for the free doughnuts, to meet a potential mate, to get out of the rain...sooner or later something said or done during services will strike a chord in them. If the service seems to watered down, that is the fault of the church, not the lost.

Again, just a fundamental misunderstanding of both ecclesiology and the church. The poitn here is purpose. Do we arrange services for lost people or saved people. We "allow them in" but are services aren't planned by "how many can we get in." It is planned by "how can we build disciples." If lost people happen to be there, (and we do invite them to come), we want it to be intelligent to them. But the church services should have a purpose and depending on what that purpose is should be structured accordingly.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I preach everything in the scripture and try with the help of the Lord to tie it in with the Cross. You remove the "chief cornerstone" and all the rest will fall.

I have to go to the gymn, but will continue this if you like, when I return. I don't see where we are differing any, but maybe you are making a point I don't see yet?

Well according to this lat post I agree. But your earlier posts appeared to ignore doctrine.

However the Epistles were to churches.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well according to this lat post I agree. But your earlier posts appeared to ignore doctrine.

However the Epistles were to churches.

No, I believe in doctrine strongly.

The Epistles, yes they were to the churches, but all scripture is given by the inspiration of God. Agree?

 

[GodsRealTruth]

Remember a person cannot be a disciple until they are saved. The reason we have so many people who think they are saved, and are in fact lost is because we do not tell them what Jesus expects of them. We try and tell them what man thinks. We need to be preaching the Gospel of salvation in our churches. For example, letting people know those who come to Jesus will experience a broken and crushed spirit before the Lord Jesus Christ in repentence. Then and only then can they be discipled one they are saved.

Look at Isaiah 66:2 :1_grouphug:

 

[Tom Butler]

What else is there to preach except the Gospel. At least a third of our congregation or more is the unsaved and we do what Jesus said to do, "preach the Gospel to every Creature".
You say look at the scripture to see what a church is supposed to do. Well, lets take the day of Pentecost, when it was noised about, they came from every kindred, tongue and nation to see what was taking place in the Church.
All across this country, I see on every Church front "Welcome", do they really mean it or is it just words. If your church building could feed the sheep and reach the unsaved, why on earth would anyone say there was something wrong with that. I don't think the Lord would be pleased with such a message.

How can the unsaved drive the services, if you are preaching the Gospel. I don't get it!! Altar call for the saints. Why do they need saved again????
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Isa&chapter=55&verse=11&version=kjv#11

I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think evangelistic services are fine. What I don't understand is why the first half of a worship service is aimed at worshipping God through the hymn singing, scripture reading, prayer,etc., then when the preacher stands up, his message is geared to the lost, with nothing for the worshippers.

I don't object to preaching salvation to the lost. I just want to be sure that worship services remain just that--worship. Aiming an entire service at the unchurched or lost seems to defeat the purpose of worship.

 

[Brother Bob]

I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think evangelistic services are fine. What I don't understand is why the first half of a worship service is aimed at worshipping God through the hymn singing, scripture reading, prayer,etc., then when the preacher stands up, his message is geared to the lost, with nothing for the worshippers.

I agreed all except I see the part below, somewhat different than you do, I think. I do believe in inviting the lost the lost to our worshipping services so they know what they are missing and if they receive salvation, they know what they are attaching themselves to. All churches seem to worship different, and members of your church probably would not be satisfied at our church and visa versa. We have a day just for the believers which is on Saturday, if vistors come who are unsaved, they are welcome to watch, but Sunday is a day where the Gospel is preached, which is sharper than a two edged sword and will cut right to the heart. It will either "feed" you or it will "condemn" you. I like a great part of our Sunday meeting filled with the unsaved, that is when we get our joiners. Yes, I indeed believe in inviting our neighbors, relatives, friends and everyone to come and be with us on Sunday when the Gospel is preached.

Reach out to the lost, yes. But don't always equate such reaching out with inviting them to church. Every evangelistic sermon recorded in the NT was outside the walls of the church and not a single one of them was in the context of a worship service.

It seems to me that every epistle that was written to the church was also speaking to those among the church that were unsaved, or the church sure was doing a lot of sinning. I believe the very fact that readers do not realize that the days of Paul and other writers were days of transition and there were many among them who were still seeking what was being taught in this new Grace Church, and still seeking Christ so they were unsaved. For this fact, there are many scripture that is not understood correctly.

 

[JustChristian]

Perhaps you can enlarge on this here. I didn't see him say that. Did you?

Again, I haven't seen this anywhere. Where did you see it?

By getting saved.

The question here being addressed is the purpose of the church services. Does the church gather for worship, evangelism, or what? Have you ever thought through what the Bible says about this?

Yes, I did understand that he was saying that.

I agree that the lost may end up in church for many reasons. But that is not the purpose of the church services.


We come together to worship God together, to learn about Him together, as an opportunity for the body to gather together, etc. If a lost person comes, then great.

But the focus during this time is on God, not on lost people. We should be reaching out to the lost in many ways, but not with our corporate worship.


Where in the Bible are you referencing in saying that worship services are not evangelical?

 

[Tom Butler]

I do believe in inviting the lost the lost to our worshipping services so they know what they are missing and if they receive salvation, they know what they are attaching themselves to.

With this I can agree.

We have a day just for the believers which is on Saturday, if vistors come who are unsaved, they are welcome to watch, but Sunday is a day where the Gospel is preached, which is sharper than a two edged sword and will cut right to the heart.

This is interesting to me. How are those meetings different? If I understand you right, if there are unsaved in your Saturday believers' service, they are welcome, but they are more like observers than targets of the music and preaching. Could you give more detail on the specific differences in the two services?

 

[Brother Bob]

This is interesting to me. How are those meetings different? If I understand you right, if there are unsaved in your Saturday believers' service, they are welcome, but they are more like observers than targets of the music and preaching. Could you give more detail on the specific differences in the two services?

This is the day we do our business work and also have a worship service. We start by singing some old songs of zion, then I read the prayer list and welcome everyone. I then use one of the young preachers if I have one visiting, to introduce the services, with a short time of preaching, then prayer. I then come to the stand and council the church and sometimes preach a short sermon before calling everyone to seat for business. After business I dismiss the church from business and call on a preacher to come and preach a closing sermon. We then have a closing prayer, with a dismission being called. Sometimes we have some unsaved and sometimes its just our members.

BBob,

 

[Pastor Larry]

We come together to worship God together, to learn about Him together, as an opportunity for the body to gather together, etc. If a lost person comes, then great.

But the focus during this time is on God, not on lost people. We should be reaching out to the lost in many ways, but not with our corporate worship.


Where in the Bible are you referencing in saying that worship services are not evangelical?

There is no place in Scripture where a service of the church is evangelical.

 

[David Lamb]

I was talking with my aunt recently, and I was telling her that most people who attend church are not Christians. She was astounded that I would claim this. She said, "Why would people who aren't Christian want to attend a Christian worship service?"


I thought it was a great question, so here it is.

Why do the lost attend church?

Before I was saved, I "went to church" (or was taken there) almost from birth. When by His Grace the Lord Jesus Christ saved me, the idea of "going to church" disappeared. Now, I was in Christ, and part of His church. Not a perfect illustration, but it's a bit like a football match (American football or Soccer, it matters not). The spectators who form the crowd might talk about "going to a football match", but wouldn't it sound odd to hear the players themselves talk in such terms?

There are many reasons why unsaved people might attend church services. Perhaps the most likely is that they imagine they are Christians already. Some might go to please their Christian friends or family members.

I wonder how you are able to say that most people who attend church services are not Christians? I would certainly agree that (in the UK at any rate) most people who say they are Christians are not. In the latest UK census (2001), about 41 million people, out of almost 59 million, said they were Christians. Yet only 3½ million (about 7%) meet to worship God on an average Sunday! And that 3½ million would include everyone attending any kind of religious meeting, not just those who are Christians in the bible sense.

 

[David Lamb]

Here's some things that come to mind...

• Free rock concerts
• Free coffee & donuts
• Hot chicks
• Feels good to be pious

That must be what my church is doing wrong Do we need to organise some free rock concerts, import some beautiful women (is that what a "hot chick" is, or should I be thinking of Colonel Sanders and his "finger-lickin'" recipe chicken?), and make or buy some doughnuts to dish out with the cups of (instant) coffee we serve after our morning service?

 

[David Lamb]

I believe that all lost people do know they are lost, or else how could they be held accountable for their sins. There is a travial for the lost to the saved and I can only speak of my own experience. I knew I was lost and become concerned about my soul and being lost. I knew that death was coming and if I died that way, then I could not go to Heaven. I went to church to find out more about Jesus and how could I be saved. It took me some time before I was willing to give up everything of the world and serve Jesus but the time did come with tears, I cried Lord if its your will that I die a natural death, let it be so, but save my dying soul. My heart was completely broken and then I felt the Lord, and a soft voice speak to me that I could come home. I came home and have never found any place to turn back. I am on my way to Heaven with the Lord right with me. Bless my Lord and thank you again for saving my dying soul.

BBob,

I join you in blessing our Lord for saving you, and for saving me, Bob. However, my experience is that I lived the first 20 years of my life lost but without knowing I was lost. You see, I was brought up in the Church of England. Although Jesus Christ, sin, salvation etc. were all mentioned, no one ever suggested to me that I was a sinner in need of salvation. Why should they? Most Anglicans believe in baptismal regeneration, and I'd been "baptised" as a baby - how could I not be a Christian already? (in their view). It was only when a friend at college started talking to me about knowing the Lord Jesus Christ personally, and needing my sin forgiven by Him, that I realised I was not a Christian.

 

[David Lamb]

How do you tell someone who professes to be a Christian that they're lost? You can't possibly know that. That is between them and God.
How did you find out that you were lost?

Speaking from personal experience (I thought I was a Christian but did not know Jesus Christ), nobody came up and told me I was lost. (As you say, no one else apart from God can really know that). A friend who was a Christian told me his testimony, and God used that to cause me to see that all the things I imagined had made me a Christian (such as having the sign of the cross made on my forehead with "holy water" as a baby, attending church services, trying to be good) were worthless in God's eyes. I needed Jesus Christ to save me. Praise His wonderful name, He did!

 

[Tom Butler]

This is the day we do our business work and also have a worship service. We start by singing some old songs of zion, then I read the prayer list and welcome everyone. I then use one of the young preachers if I have one visiting, to introduce the services, with a short time of preaching, then prayer. I then come to the stand and council the church and sometimes preach a short sermon before calling everyone to seat for business. After business I dismiss the church from business and call on a preacher to come and preach a closing sermon. We then have a closing prayer, with a dismission being called. Sometimes we have some unsaved and sometimes its just our members.
BBob,

In your Sunday service, in which most present are unsaved, what is your service like? How would it be different from the Saturday service? Do you meet each Saturday?

 

[Brother Bob]

In your Sunday service, in which most present are unsaved, what is your service like? How would it be different from the Saturday service? Do you meet each Saturday?

The majority are not unsaved, about 1/3 are. The council that I give the church during the business part when I first get up, I usually preach some and its mostly council for the members. So, on Sunday, there may be a little council mixed in with the preaching, but not much. We just preach the word.
The preaching would not be any different. We believe like the little sister that even the dogs eat of the crumbs from the table.

 

[HankD]

Answer to the OP: Jesus told us why...

Matthew 13

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

...

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

He will take care of them at the end of the harvest.
In the meantime, I suspect He transforms some of the tares into wheat.

Just my opinion (apart from the Scripture).

HankD​

 

[Brother Bob]

I join you in blessing our Lord for saving you, and for saving me, Bob. However, my experience is that I lived the first 20 years of my life lost but without knowing I was lost. You see, I was brought up in the Church of England. Although Jesus Christ, sin, salvation etc. were all mentioned, no one ever suggested to me that I was a sinner in need of salvation. Why should they? Most Anglicans believe in baptismal regeneration, and I'd been "baptised" as a baby - how could I not be a Christian already? (in their view). It was only when a friend at college started talking to me about knowing the Lord Jesus Christ personally, and needing my sin forgiven by Him, that I realised I was not a Christian.

I understand this and is why I am against infant baptism. I am glad you finally took heed to the spirit that was telling you something was wrong. I am sure it didn't happen in a second. I don't mean to be putting words in your mouth though. There have been so many on here who traveled the same route you have, after being baptized as an infant. I still believe when you come to the age to know God, you knew then something was wrong.
God did not "chance" it on someone telling you. He took care of that Himself by His Spirit, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. I take "coming into the world" as being when you come to know God and Glorified Him not as God.

 

[HankD]

I understand this and is why I am against infant baptism. I am glad you finally took heed to the spirit that was telling you something was wrong. I am sure it didn't happen in a second. I don't mean to be putting words in your mouth though. There have been so many on here who traveled the same route you have, after being baptized as an infant. I still believe when you come to the age to know God, you knew then something was wrong.
God did not "chance" it on someone telling you. He took care of that Himself by His Spirit, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. I take "coming into the world" as being when you come to know God and Glorified Him not as God.

Indeed, as a former Catholic, after going through the OT Scriptures, I knew something was terribly wrong and all the confessions to a priest were useless to remove or change whatever it was.

It was not primarily my particular sins but me myself, an offense to God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:​

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

HankD​