Why Do You Believe That Instrumental Worship Music Is Different?

[Scripture More Accurately]

I am not aware of any instruction for New Testament Christians to have any instruments in our churches whatsoever, or indeed, any example of it.
FYI, C.H. Spurgeon did not even have an organ in the Metropolitan Tabernacle. All hymns and Psalms were sung a capella with the help of a 'precentor' (I think that's the word) who pitched the key for the congregation. Perhaps we should wait until we get to heaven to find out what musical accompaniment God prefers. A very quick look through Revelation reveals only harps (Revelation 5:8) and trumpets, but the trumpets do not appear to have accompanied singing.

N.B. Spurgeon did allow Moody and Sankey to bring a portable organ into the Tabernacle on two occasions.

Jesus taught us to pray that God's will would be done in earth, as it is in heaven. God's will concerning worship is done in heaven with worship that includes the use of musical instruments. God tells us in Scripture that He wants the whole world to glorify Him with singing that is accompanied by instrumental music that is acceptable to Him.

We do not need any additional NT instruction to Christians that tells them that God wants them to use musical instruments to worship Him.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

In the most practical way,
If A, B, C, are all positive, that does not oblige Z to be positive.

Just to make sure that I am understanding correctly what you are saying, are A, B, C the same as my opening points 1, 2, and 3 and Z the same as my point 4?

 

[tyndale1946]

I am not aware of any instruction for New Testament Christians to have any instruments in our churches whatsoever, or indeed, any example of it.
FYI, C.H. Spurgeon did not even have an organ in the Metropolitan Tabernacle. All hymns and Psalms were sung a capella with the help of a 'precentor' (I think that's the word) who pitched the key for the congregation. Perhaps we should wait until we get to heaven to find out what musical accompaniment God prefers. A very quick look through Revelation reveals only harps (Revelation 5:8) and trumpets, but the trumpets do not appear to have accompanied singing.

N.B. Spurgeon did allow Moody and Sankey to bring a portable organ into the Tabernacle on two occasions.

I am not against instrumental music but I'm against it in church... You got a voice use it!... Praise God!... The Baptist Church I grew up in sang hymns... I remember standing next to my Dad who lead and after a while I did... Acapella!... Instrumental music doesn't enhance voices, it downs them out... It stifles me when I sing, when I have to follow a piano or organ... I can't belt in out like I'm use too... Don't shackle the song leader, that is what he is up there for... Read the Down Grade Controversy, its pretty eye opening... Also why Spurgeon left the church... When we get to Heaven... Peter won't be tickling the keys , while Paul is on the organ as Gabriel is on his trumpet, while the angels follow along on harps... And did you ever think that if it were so, and with the redeemed singing praises to God, the vast un numberless multitude will be so LOUD!!! you couldn't hear them anyway... You brethren and your secular ways... Brother Glen

 

[Deacon]

3. The lyrics of worship music can be right or not right

Your original proposition is faulty. You have made each proposition a simple right or wrong (“not right”) answer, sometimes there are gray areas.

Let me ask you, are these lyrics right or not right?

Daughter of Babylon, you devastated one,
Blessed will be one who repays you
With the retribution with which you have repaid us.
Blessed will be one who seizes and dashes your children
Against the rock.
Psalm 137.8,9 nasb
​

Sing them to the Lord with a right heart!

Who is to know the mind of God regarding the matter of instrumental music when he has chosen to remain silent regarding them?

Rob

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Your original proposition is faulty. You have made each proposition a simple right or wrong (“not right”) answer, sometimes there are gray areas.

Let me ask you, are these lyrics right or not right?

Daughter of Babylon, you devastated one,
Blessed will be one who repays you
With the retribution with which you have repaid us.
Blessed will be one who seizes and dashes your children
Against the rock.
Psalm 137.8,9 nasb
​

Sing them to the Lord with a right heart!

Who is to know the mind of God regarding the matter of instrumental music when he has chosen to remain silent regarding them?

Rob

These are words written by the inspiration of God. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them.

 

[Deacon]

And yet they are abrasive.

God has standards different from ours.

Rob

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

And yet they are abrasive.

God has standards different from ours.

Rob

To hold that God accepts all kinds of instrumental music in worship would be to hold that God has no standards at all. If you hold that God accepts all kinds of instrumental music in worship, where does the Bible teach that He does so?

 

[agedman]

When all

I think we need to distinguish between what was permissible in the open air and what was permissible in the Temple.
David danced before the Lord as the ark was brought up to Jerusalem, accompanied by horns and trumpets (1 Chronicles 15:28-29) but I don't think there is any record of anyone dancing in the Temple.
Moreover, David limited the varieties of instruments that were permitted in the Temple (1 Chronicles 25:1) and horns and trumpets seem to have been excluded, though trumpets were given to the priests (not to the musicians) at the dedication of the Temple (2 Chronicles 8:12). Nehemiah followed the instructions that David gave (Nehemiah 12:27-36) giving only cymbals, stringed instruments and harps to the priests and Levites, but trumpets to the priests' sons. The trumpets seem not to have been used in the music but to announce some change in what was going on (cf. Numbers 10:1-10; 1 Corinthians 15:52).
What can we draw from this? Perhaps that playing loud worship music is fine in the church hall or on one's CD player at home or in the car, but perhaps not at the church service, where more solemnity and reverence is required. We should also bear in mind that there was no amplification in ancient times, so volume sufficient to fill the Temple could not be achieved without large numbers of musicians.
It is the voices of His people raised in worship that God delights to hear. Musical instruments are helpful to keep us in pitch and in time, but they have no other function in the church. We are not there to entertain ourselves but to worship God.

I suppose that jumping around in public with no cloths on would be pretty hard to explain.

Makes for a cute children’s story and I have more often wondered if David’s wife was not correct.

Did not God cover the nakedness?

Why would David think God wanted him to expose himself?

More especially considering how very specific and special the clothing was to be when approaching God as a representative of the people.

Perhaps this too is an early indication that David let his emotional side run to excess at times.

just pondering.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

When all


I suppose that jumping around in public with no cloths on would be pretty hard to explain.

Makes for a cute children’s story and I have more often wondered if David’s wife was not correct.

Did not God cover the nakedness?

Why would David think God wanted him to expose himself?

More especially considering how very specific and special the clothing was to be when approaching God as a representative of the people.

Perhaps this too is an early indication that David let his emotional side run to excess at times.

just pondering.

I think you're looking at 2 Samuel 6:20 and supposing that David was dancing naked before the Lord. However, v.14 says that he was wearing a linen ephod, which was what the priests wore underneath their more ceremonial garb. 1 Chronicles 15:27 says that he was wearing a 'robe of fine linen' as well as the ephod. Perhaps he took off the robe to dance, but I don't think he was naked. That would have been a serious offence to God (Exodus 28:40-43)

 

[robycop3]

Most likely, David, while leading in the singing of Psalms at the temple or in his court, jammed on his Stratocaster harp, while Judah Marsalis & his band winged their trumpets.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Most likely, David, while leading in the singing of Psalms at the temple or in his court, jammed on his Stratocaster harp, while Judah Marsalis & his band winged their trumpets.

This is a useless comment that makes me wonder why someone would post something like this. Posting idle words that do not add anything of value to a discussion is not edifying.

 

[AustinC]

What makes music, only created by instruments (excluding the idea that the vocal chords are an instrument) worship music or not worship music?

If I listen to music, without knowing the composer or having a social context, how do I know what is worship or what is not worship?

 

[agedman]

What makes music, only created by instruments (excluding the idea that the vocal chords are an instrument) worship music or not worship music?

If I listen to music, without knowing the composer or having a social context, how do I know what is worship or what is not worship?

You seek the wisdom of the Spirit - try the Spirit as John said.

 

[timdabap]

That God allows and does not forbid, the use of mucial instruments in Worship of Him. There are some who think otherwise.

it's not a matter of whether God allows and does not forbid, or that God does not allow and forbids. It's much more a matter of why a New Testament church OUGHT to sing in acapella.

When King Hezekiah restored temple worship in 2 Chronicles 29 and commanded the burnt offering be offered and the burnt offering was in process of being offered, verse 27 tells us "the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israe" (note: ordained by a man, David king of Israel".

Of course, we all know that the burnt offering, the passover lamb, the sin offering, almost all types of offering in the Old Testament was representative of Jesus Christ. The New Testament Scriptures also recount to us that the night before He was crucified (offered up as burnt offering) the Savior sang hymns with His apostles.

Now, back to 2 Chronicles 29, and verse 28 tells us that "all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.

Now back in Calvary, our burnt offering is recorded as having exclaimed, Himself, in His own voice "It is finished.." and Scripture in the same book, chapter and verse, continues..."and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost." Now back in 2 Chronicles 29, verse 29 says: And when they had made an end of offering, the king and all that were present with him bowed themselves, and worshipped.

Further, 2 Chronicles verse 30 states, "Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the WORDS of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.

I suppose since this is a restoration of temple worship, the pattern remains the same.
Instruments ordained by David (a man) while offering was burning, words of the songs written by David (acapella) after the offering has been consumed.

So, the why.
If a church claims to be from, or of, the New Testament church founded by Jesus Christ along the shores of Galilee (and I think very few churches in so called "christendom" will not claim that) well, then, that church OUGHT to be following the pattern set by Scripture (sing with grace and melody with their hearts to the Lord) as well as holding to the doctrines and practices of the original New Testament church.

Otherwise, the claim that they are a New Testament church, or a church descended from the original one, is false.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

it's not a matter of whether God allows and does not forbid, or that God does not allow and forbids. It's much more a matter of why a New Testament church OUGHT to sing in acapella.

When King Hezekiah restored temple worship in 2 Chronicles 29 and commanded the burnt offering be offered and the burnt offering was in process of being offered, verse 27 tells us "the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israe" (note: ordained by a man, David king of Israel".

Yes, David was a man, but he did not give these commands merely as a man concerning the musical activities of God's people in their worship of God. He was a prophet of God through whom God commanded His people what they were to do:

2 Chron. 29:25 And he [Hezekiah] set the Levites in the house of the Lord with cymbals, with psalteries, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, and of Gad the king's seer, and Nathan the prophet: for so was the commandment of the Lord by his prophets.

 

[SavedByGrace]

it's not a matter of whether God allows and does not forbid, or that God does not allow and forbids. It's much more a matter of why a New Testament church OUGHT to sing in acapella.

When King Hezekiah restored temple worship in 2 Chronicles 29 and commanded the burnt offering be offered and the burnt offering was in process of being offered, verse 27 tells us "the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israe" (note: ordained by a man, David king of Israel".

Of course, we all know that the burnt offering, the passover lamb, the sin offering, almost all types of offering in the Old Testament was representative of Jesus Christ. The New Testament Scriptures also recount to us that the night before He was crucified (offered up as burnt offering) the Savior sang hymns with His apostles.

Now, back to 2 Chronicles 29, and verse 28 tells us that "all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.

Now back in Calvary, our burnt offering is recorded as having exclaimed, Himself, in His own voice "It is finished.." and Scripture in the same book, chapter and verse, continues..."and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost." Now back in 2 Chronicles 29, verse 29 says: And when they had made an end of offering, the king and all that were present with him bowed themselves, and worshipped.

Further, 2 Chronicles verse 30 states, "Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the WORDS of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.

I suppose since this is a restoration of temple worship, the pattern remains the same.
Instruments ordained by David (a man) while offering was burning, words of the songs written by David (acapella) after the offering has been consumed.

So, the why.
If a church claims to be from, or of, the New Testament church founded by Jesus Christ along the shores of Galilee (and I think very few churches in so called "christendom" will not claim that) well, then, that church OUGHT to be following the pattern set by Scripture (sing with grace and melody with their hearts to the Lord) as well as holding to the doctrines and practices of the original New Testament church.

Otherwise, the claim that they are a New Testament church, or a church descended from the original one, is false.

Ephesians 5:19 is addressed to all Churches:

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart"

The word for "Psalms", as in the Old Testament, is "ψαλμός", which means, "a striking the chords of a musical instrument, mostly of musical strings". This gives warrant for any string instrument to be used in our Worship in all Churches today. Only those who are more interested in "traditions of men", like the Reformed/Calvinists, will try to object, based on their own reasons that are not in the Bible!

 

[timdabap]

Ephesians 5:19 is addressed to all Churches:

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart"

The word for "Psalms", as in the Old Testament, is "ψαλμός", which means, "a striking the chords of a musical instrument, mostly of musical strings". This gives warrant for any string instrument to be used in our Worship in all Churches today. Only those who are more interested in "traditions of men", like the Reformed/Calvinists, will try to object, based on their own reasons that are not in the Bible!

I have quoted to you Bible, not dictionaries, which may or may not be accurated, and you think I am more interested in traditions of men ?

 

[AustinC]

You seek the wisdom of the Spirit - try the Spirit as John said.

If the Spirit has me worship to an indigenous drum or to Beethoven's 5th, then both are worship? How about Frank Zappa's "Apostrophe?"
Your answer means that one sound may be a means of worship for me, but not a means of worship for you.

Is it best, then, to simply extend grace to the differences each person or culture has in music?

 

[Aaron]

Ephesians 5:19 is addressed to all Churches:

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart"

Note the words, "in your heart."

 

[Aaron]

Go to this thread if any are interested in how I would respond in this one.

What Do You Believe about Demonic Instrumental Music?