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Why Do You Believe What You Believe?
- Thread starter Reformed
- Start date
PreachTony
Active Member
No offense taken. I think we've all been in that boat, to one degree or another, at some point in our lives.
As far as Modalism is concerned... watch this (if you've never seen it). Yes, it is from Lutheran Satire, but it made me laugh.
I am going to talk about ceased gifts of the Holy Spirit. The entire charismatic movement and included denominations put their faith in gifts of the Holy Spirit that have long ceased rather than in Jesus Christ The supernatural gifts ended after the Apostolic age. For example, the gift of healing. No individual today has that gift because it has ceased. God heals individuals as He sees fit, but people like Bennie Hinn are a fraud. I could go through each supernatural gift. (1 Cor 13:8) As proof, there is not one documented legitimate case of these gifts since they ceased. Tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, healing, raising the dead, words of faith or knowledge, etc do not exist. One can see these gifts used in Paul's early writings, but they have disappeared in his later writings.
Here is an article that explains my position better than I could.....
Cessationalism Defended by Dave Stevens licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License Disclaimer There was a time when I thought I spoke in tongues and saw visions of Jesus speaking to me. So, it is not as if I have a bias against the charismatic gifts. I use to think my special "baptism" of gifts offered me a deeper experience with God. I came home from college asking my church and believing family why they ignored the teachings on the Holy Spirit. I use to think that the gifts were the demonstration of the power of God. I still believe in miracles and supernatural answers to prayer. However, I have come to realize that the Holy Spirit almost always works with and through the Word of God. In contrast to those who would deny the power of the Holy Spirit, I affirm that the greatest demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit is in the sovereign regeneration of lost souls, whereby God turns an unbelieving God hater into a believer. I also want to set strait those who would accuse me of denying the fact that God directs us. I believe that God leads and directs His elect by giving them desires that conform to His revealed will (the Bible). In fact, God “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Eph 1:11). Romans 8:28says, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." The opposite is also true of the reprobate. He works all things out for the bad to those who do not love God. For example, Prov. 16:4 states that "The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom." Romans 9:17 says of Pharaoh, “For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.'” So, it would be perfectly appropriate to say, “I feel that God is leading me to do such and such”, which is another way of saying, “I think God is giving me the desire to do such and such”. If that desire conforms to God’s revealed will, we should recognize it as the gracious work of God in our hearts to conform us to the image of His Son. However, it is completely different to say, “God told me such and such” The former statement acknowledges God’s providence in leading us by means of our desires and circumstances. The later statement invokes the authority of God by speaking on His behalf. There is a big difference. In our modern experiential culture, professing Christians have become very comfortable with speaking on God’s behalf. This shows that they have little respect for His inspired word and no fear of misrepresenting Him. Few people take to heart the warning found in Deut. 18:20, "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." Cessationism teaches that the revelatory gifts (tongues and prophecy) have ceased to be given to the church by the Holy Spirit after the completion of the New Testament canon. The following is a list of reasons why I have become a cessationist. Reason 1 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Every Good Work 2 Timothy 3:16-17says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." This passage explains that the scriptures are sufficient for our sanctification. It doesn't say that the scriptures equip us for some works, but we need the gifts of tongues or prophecy to really experience super spirituality. It says that the scriptures are sufficient to equip us for every good work.
Reason 2 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Salvation The scriptures are also sufficient for saving souls. Romans 1:16says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Those who would promote so called "power evangelism" argue that the gifts are important evangelistic tools. They would argue that miracles and demonstrations of the power of God would cause someone to believe in the gospel. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, told by Jesus in Luke 16, the rich man in hell begs Abraham to send Lazarus "to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment" (vs. 27b-28). Abraham then says "They have Moses and the prophets". The rich man argued the same argument as "power evangelists" do today. "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent" (vs. 30). Abraham's reply is this, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." So miracles do nothing to save the lost. God must first perform a sovereign work of regeneration before someone can believe. The children of Israel witnessed many many miracles. They witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt. They saw the parting of the Red Sea. They were guided by the pillar of fire at night and the pillar of cloud during the day. They were fed manna (a picture of Christ) for food. The drank from the rock (a picture of Christ) in the dessert. They heard God's very voice on Mt. Sinai. But, was this enough to give them faith? No, Hebrews says that they all died in the wilderness (except the families of Moses, Aaron, and Caleb) because of unbelief. For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:16-19 What did those miracles accomplish for those who died in the wilderness? They served as greater judgement for them in hell. But to God's elect they serve as a witness of God's power and deliverance in salvation. God has not chosen the gifts of tongues and prophecy as His means of producing faith in unbelievers. Instead, "it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor. 1:21).
Here is an article that explains my position better than I could.....
Cessationalism Defended by Dave Stevens licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License Disclaimer There was a time when I thought I spoke in tongues and saw visions of Jesus speaking to me. So, it is not as if I have a bias against the charismatic gifts. I use to think my special "baptism" of gifts offered me a deeper experience with God. I came home from college asking my church and believing family why they ignored the teachings on the Holy Spirit. I use to think that the gifts were the demonstration of the power of God. I still believe in miracles and supernatural answers to prayer. However, I have come to realize that the Holy Spirit almost always works with and through the Word of God. In contrast to those who would deny the power of the Holy Spirit, I affirm that the greatest demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit is in the sovereign regeneration of lost souls, whereby God turns an unbelieving God hater into a believer. I also want to set strait those who would accuse me of denying the fact that God directs us. I believe that God leads and directs His elect by giving them desires that conform to His revealed will (the Bible). In fact, God “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Eph 1:11). Romans 8:28says, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." The opposite is also true of the reprobate. He works all things out for the bad to those who do not love God. For example, Prov. 16:4 states that "The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom." Romans 9:17 says of Pharaoh, “For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.'” So, it would be perfectly appropriate to say, “I feel that God is leading me to do such and such”, which is another way of saying, “I think God is giving me the desire to do such and such”. If that desire conforms to God’s revealed will, we should recognize it as the gracious work of God in our hearts to conform us to the image of His Son. However, it is completely different to say, “God told me such and such” The former statement acknowledges God’s providence in leading us by means of our desires and circumstances. The later statement invokes the authority of God by speaking on His behalf. There is a big difference. In our modern experiential culture, professing Christians have become very comfortable with speaking on God’s behalf. This shows that they have little respect for His inspired word and no fear of misrepresenting Him. Few people take to heart the warning found in Deut. 18:20, "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." Cessationism teaches that the revelatory gifts (tongues and prophecy) have ceased to be given to the church by the Holy Spirit after the completion of the New Testament canon. The following is a list of reasons why I have become a cessationist. Reason 1 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Every Good Work 2 Timothy 3:16-17says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." This passage explains that the scriptures are sufficient for our sanctification. It doesn't say that the scriptures equip us for some works, but we need the gifts of tongues or prophecy to really experience super spirituality. It says that the scriptures are sufficient to equip us for every good work.
Reason 2 - The Scriptures Are Sufficient For Salvation The scriptures are also sufficient for saving souls. Romans 1:16says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Those who would promote so called "power evangelism" argue that the gifts are important evangelistic tools. They would argue that miracles and demonstrations of the power of God would cause someone to believe in the gospel. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, told by Jesus in Luke 16, the rich man in hell begs Abraham to send Lazarus "to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment" (vs. 27b-28). Abraham then says "They have Moses and the prophets". The rich man argued the same argument as "power evangelists" do today. "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent" (vs. 30). Abraham's reply is this, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." So miracles do nothing to save the lost. God must first perform a sovereign work of regeneration before someone can believe. The children of Israel witnessed many many miracles. They witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt. They saw the parting of the Red Sea. They were guided by the pillar of fire at night and the pillar of cloud during the day. They were fed manna (a picture of Christ) for food. The drank from the rock (a picture of Christ) in the dessert. They heard God's very voice on Mt. Sinai. But, was this enough to give them faith? No, Hebrews says that they all died in the wilderness (except the families of Moses, Aaron, and Caleb) because of unbelief. For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 3:16-19 What did those miracles accomplish for those who died in the wilderness? They served as greater judgement for them in hell. But to God's elect they serve as a witness of God's power and deliverance in salvation. God has not chosen the gifts of tongues and prophecy as His means of producing faith in unbelievers. Instead, "it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1 Cor. 1:21).
Reason 3 - The Scriptures Are Complete Hebrews 1:1-2 says the following: God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; The Greek word elalesen (spoken) is an aorist tense verb. The aorist tense indicates an action that has been completed in the past. Is God still speaking to us today through new revelation (tongues and prophecy)? No, because God has already spoken through His Son. His revelation is complete. But when did God speak by His Son? The answer can be found in John. "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. - John 14:25-26 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever
He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. - John 16:12-15 From these passages we see that the Apostles are not given anything apart from Jesus. Jesus was the true prophet. He had a set doctrine or teaching that he wanted to pass on to the disciples. However, the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember the things that Jesus taught. Even Paul was directly taught by the risen Jesus Christ (see Gal. 1:12 & 1 Cor. 11:23). Jesus is very clear in this passage that the Holy Spirit will speak only the things He hears from the Son (see "He will take of Mine and declare it to you" in vs 15). That is why the early church needed the gift of prophecy and tongues while the canon (list of books considered scripture) was being completed by the disciples. Theses gifts (as well as miracles) also authenticated the message being delivered. The canon of scripture was eventually finished by John with the following warning in Revelations. For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Rev. 22:18-19 When John wrote Revelation, he was aware of the fact that he was the only surviving eye witness and apostle. Therefore, this warning can be understood in a much broader sense than just the book of Revelation. I have yet to find a new translation of the Bible that contains new revelation from a modern day tongues and prophecy. But why not? If a new tongue or prophecy is from God, then it should be recognized as the very words of God and added to the back of every Bible. Why should there be any distinction? If God has really spoken through a modern day prophet, then His words today should cary the same authority as His words spoken long ago. Many who argue that tongues and prophecy are for today would balk at such an idea. They know that their modern day tongue or prophecy do not have the same authority as scripture. But they fail to explain why. Reason 4 - Our Hearts Are Deceitful Above All Things Jeremiah 17:9 says the following about our hearts “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? Yet so many charismatics blindly follow inclinations and feelings in their heart that they think are from God. I once did this myself. My heart was deceiving myself into thinking that I was receiving revelation from God, when that revelation actually was coming from my own imagination and vanity. I was so deceived, that I actually thought that by making strange nonsensical noises, I was able to speak in an "angelic language". Jeremiah 23:25-26 explains that false prophecy comes from the deceit of our own hearts. "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart," - Jer. 23:25-26 "Is not My word like a fire?” says the LORD, And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" - Jer. 23:29 How do we know if a tongue or prophecy is from God? After all, it could be our imagination, or a hallucination. Charismatics usually have two answers for this. 1. They quote 1 John 4:1 out of context, which says, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the
flesh is of God." The charismatic would interpret this passage by saying that we are to ask the spirit (the voice in our head) whether Jesus came in the flesh. But this is not what John is asking us to do. He is telling the church to test those who claim to be prophets by examining their doctrine. That is why John warns them that "many false prophets have gone out into the world". 2. Secondly, those who believe that tongues and prophecy are for today usually say that a tongue or prophecy can be validated by comparing it with scripture. But if every prophecy must be compared with scripture, then why do we need the new tongue or prophecy? Reason 5 - We Are To Focus on God's Revealed Will Many would argue that tongues and prophecy help us to understand God's secret plan for our lives. In this way, it is said that we can "get in on what God is going". Should we be focused on God's secret will? Actually, the Bible tells us the opposite. “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. - Deut. 29:29 Instead of worrying about missing out on God's plan, we should trust that God is sovereign enough to direct us by orchestrating events according to His providence. This is tremendously freeing because we no longer need to worry about looking for signs of God's secret will (which is superstition). Believers never miss out on something "better" because "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). This frees us to focus on obeying His revealed will (i.e. ten commandments). God will take care of the rest. Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). He doesn't tell us to focus on new revelation. Instead, we are to focus our attention and energies on what He has revealed, "My commandments". We are also told several times in the scriptures not to "interpret omens" (see Lev. 19:26 Deut. 18:10). However, this is exactly what Charismatics do when they interpret current events as signs from God. Reason 6 - The Imperatives in 1 Corinthians 12:31 and 14:1 Are Mistranslations Some would quote the following verses to show that we should "earnestly desire the best gifts" (prophecy, tongues, etc). "But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way." - 1 Cor. 12:31 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." - 1 Cor. 14:1 The Greek word for "earnestly desire" in vs 12:31 and "desire" in vs. 14:1 is zhlouvte (zaloute), which is a second person plural present active verb. The question at hand is whether this verb is in the imperative (a command) or indicative (a statement of fact) mood. The Greek verb ending -te is the verb ending for both imperative and indicative. In fact, Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida's Greek-English Lexicon even states that "It is also possible to understand zhlouvte in 1Cor 12:31 as being indicative and therefore translated as ‘you set your hearts on the more important gifts.’" So, we need to look at the context to tell us if this verb is in the imperative or indicative mood. I would argue that the indicative mood makes much more sense with the subversive "yet I show you a more excellent way". In other words, Paul was stating the fact that they were zealously desiring the best gifts, which was causing divisions (chap. 12). Instead of desiring tongues and prophecy, they should have been desiring love, which in Paul's terms was "a more excellent way" (chap. 13). The same is the case for 14:1. He tells them to pursue (diw¿kete - follow with haste) love. This verb should be translated as an imperative because of the context of chapter 13. Then the next verb "desire"
He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. - John 16:12-15 From these passages we see that the Apostles are not given anything apart from Jesus. Jesus was the true prophet. He had a set doctrine or teaching that he wanted to pass on to the disciples. However, the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember the things that Jesus taught. Even Paul was directly taught by the risen Jesus Christ (see Gal. 1:12 & 1 Cor. 11:23). Jesus is very clear in this passage that the Holy Spirit will speak only the things He hears from the Son (see "He will take of Mine and declare it to you" in vs 15). That is why the early church needed the gift of prophecy and tongues while the canon (list of books considered scripture) was being completed by the disciples. Theses gifts (as well as miracles) also authenticated the message being delivered. The canon of scripture was eventually finished by John with the following warning in Revelations. For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Rev. 22:18-19 When John wrote Revelation, he was aware of the fact that he was the only surviving eye witness and apostle. Therefore, this warning can be understood in a much broader sense than just the book of Revelation. I have yet to find a new translation of the Bible that contains new revelation from a modern day tongues and prophecy. But why not? If a new tongue or prophecy is from God, then it should be recognized as the very words of God and added to the back of every Bible. Why should there be any distinction? If God has really spoken through a modern day prophet, then His words today should cary the same authority as His words spoken long ago. Many who argue that tongues and prophecy are for today would balk at such an idea. They know that their modern day tongue or prophecy do not have the same authority as scripture. But they fail to explain why. Reason 4 - Our Hearts Are Deceitful Above All Things Jeremiah 17:9 says the following about our hearts “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? Yet so many charismatics blindly follow inclinations and feelings in their heart that they think are from God. I once did this myself. My heart was deceiving myself into thinking that I was receiving revelation from God, when that revelation actually was coming from my own imagination and vanity. I was so deceived, that I actually thought that by making strange nonsensical noises, I was able to speak in an "angelic language". Jeremiah 23:25-26 explains that false prophecy comes from the deceit of our own hearts. "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart," - Jer. 23:25-26 "Is not My word like a fire?” says the LORD, And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" - Jer. 23:29 How do we know if a tongue or prophecy is from God? After all, it could be our imagination, or a hallucination. Charismatics usually have two answers for this. 1. They quote 1 John 4:1 out of context, which says, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the
flesh is of God." The charismatic would interpret this passage by saying that we are to ask the spirit (the voice in our head) whether Jesus came in the flesh. But this is not what John is asking us to do. He is telling the church to test those who claim to be prophets by examining their doctrine. That is why John warns them that "many false prophets have gone out into the world". 2. Secondly, those who believe that tongues and prophecy are for today usually say that a tongue or prophecy can be validated by comparing it with scripture. But if every prophecy must be compared with scripture, then why do we need the new tongue or prophecy? Reason 5 - We Are To Focus on God's Revealed Will Many would argue that tongues and prophecy help us to understand God's secret plan for our lives. In this way, it is said that we can "get in on what God is going". Should we be focused on God's secret will? Actually, the Bible tells us the opposite. “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. - Deut. 29:29 Instead of worrying about missing out on God's plan, we should trust that God is sovereign enough to direct us by orchestrating events according to His providence. This is tremendously freeing because we no longer need to worry about looking for signs of God's secret will (which is superstition). Believers never miss out on something "better" because "all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28). This frees us to focus on obeying His revealed will (i.e. ten commandments). God will take care of the rest. Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). He doesn't tell us to focus on new revelation. Instead, we are to focus our attention and energies on what He has revealed, "My commandments". We are also told several times in the scriptures not to "interpret omens" (see Lev. 19:26 Deut. 18:10). However, this is exactly what Charismatics do when they interpret current events as signs from God. Reason 6 - The Imperatives in 1 Corinthians 12:31 and 14:1 Are Mistranslations Some would quote the following verses to show that we should "earnestly desire the best gifts" (prophecy, tongues, etc). "But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way." - 1 Cor. 12:31 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy." - 1 Cor. 14:1 The Greek word for "earnestly desire" in vs 12:31 and "desire" in vs. 14:1 is zhlouvte (zaloute), which is a second person plural present active verb. The question at hand is whether this verb is in the imperative (a command) or indicative (a statement of fact) mood. The Greek verb ending -te is the verb ending for both imperative and indicative. In fact, Johannes P. Louw and Eugene A. Nida's Greek-English Lexicon even states that "It is also possible to understand zhlouvte in 1Cor 12:31 as being indicative and therefore translated as ‘you set your hearts on the more important gifts.’" So, we need to look at the context to tell us if this verb is in the imperative or indicative mood. I would argue that the indicative mood makes much more sense with the subversive "yet I show you a more excellent way". In other words, Paul was stating the fact that they were zealously desiring the best gifts, which was causing divisions (chap. 12). Instead of desiring tongues and prophecy, they should have been desiring love, which in Paul's terms was "a more excellent way" (chap. 13). The same is the case for 14:1. He tells them to pursue (diw¿kete - follow with haste) love. This verb should be translated as an imperative because of the context of chapter 13. Then the next verb "desire"
(zhlouvte) should be translated indicative (statement of fact). Why? Because of the context of verse 14:12, which is a summary of 14:1-11. "Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel." - 1 Cor. 14:12 Paul is stating that "since" they were zealous for spiritual gifts (indicative again), their overall concern should be for the edification of the church. There are no commands in scripture to seek spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly given by the Holy Spirit and are not given to everyone in the same way (1 Cor. 12:30). That is why they are called gifts. Reason 7 - The Scriptures Tell Us That The Revelatory Gifts Have Ceased Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 It is clear from this passage that tongues, prophecy, and words of knowledge will cease. The main issue is when they will cease. It is interesting to note that these three gifts are specifically called out as being temporary, in contrast to faith, hope and love. Why? I believe it is because they are revelatory. Verse 10 tells us exactly when these gifts will cease, namely "when that which is perfect has come". The Greek word telios (perfect) means "brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness; perfect" according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon and "having reached its end, finished, complete" according to the Liddell & Scott Greek lexicon. In other words, when the finishing of something has come, these gifts will cease. Here are some common interpretations of the word "perfect" (telios) in 1 Cor. 13:10. 1. maturity attained in our glorified state. This mixes metaphors (explained below). 2. the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. However, Christ is never described in the neuter gender. This also mixes metaphors (explained below). 3. the completion of the canon. I believe the 3rd interpretation is correct for the following reasons. Firstly, this interpretation better explains how prophecy, tongues and words of new knowledge are incomplete (see "For we know in part and we prophecy in part" in verse 9). They are incomplete because, at that period in history, God had not completed them. Secondly, the third interpretation fits perfectly with the two metaphors that Paul uses to explain how the church's knowledge will become complete. The two metaphors that Paul uses to explain the contrast between knowing or prophesying in part and complete knowledge are as follows: 1. knowledge of a child vs. knowledge of a man 2. seeing through a dim mirror vs. seeing face to face It can not be emphasized enough that these metaphors must be taken as metaphors. The first mistake people make in this passage is to interpret the "face to face" as the 2nd coming of Christ. But this would be mixing the metaphor ("seeing in a mirror") with something real (seeing Jesus Christ at His 2nd coming). Paul would never mix a metaphor with reality. If the first part is metaphorical (seeing in a mirror) so must the 2nd part (seeing in face to face). So, Paul is telling us that the completion of the canon will be like looking at someone face to face, compared to looking through the dim reflection of a 1st century mirror.
Conclusion This paper was intended to make a concise biblical defense of Cessationism (the teaching that the revelatory gifts have ceased). The bible teaches us that the scriptures are sufficient for both our salvation and sanctification. The apostle John has completed the revelation of Jesus Christ by finishing the book of Revelation. The scriptures are trustworthy, while our hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Therefore, instead of focusing on superstitious premonitions, we should focus our energy on obeying God's commandments as they are revealed in the scriptures. We can ignore those who say that God commands us to "earnestly desire the greater gifts" because these passages are not imperatives. And lastly, we should not seek to exercise the revelatory gifts, when the scriptures teach us that these gifts have ceased. I hope this paper has helped the reader understand that only God's Holy Word has the authority to bind man's conscience. May God use this to free those who are bound by superstition, error, and the doctrine of demons.
Conclusion This paper was intended to make a concise biblical defense of Cessationism (the teaching that the revelatory gifts have ceased). The bible teaches us that the scriptures are sufficient for both our salvation and sanctification. The apostle John has completed the revelation of Jesus Christ by finishing the book of Revelation. The scriptures are trustworthy, while our hearts are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Therefore, instead of focusing on superstitious premonitions, we should focus our energy on obeying God's commandments as they are revealed in the scriptures. We can ignore those who say that God commands us to "earnestly desire the greater gifts" because these passages are not imperatives. And lastly, we should not seek to exercise the revelatory gifts, when the scriptures teach us that these gifts have ceased. I hope this paper has helped the reader understand that only God's Holy Word has the authority to bind man's conscience. May God use this to free those who are bound by superstition, error, and the doctrine of demons.
I became a believer as a lightly churched young teen. Even then I was an avid reader and read many of the classics.
The teen Christian friends I associated with provided a wide variety of worship experiences; home churches, Catholic, Holiness Pentecostal, Presbyterian, but oddly enough no Baptists.
My first personally chosen church was an Evangelical Covenant Church in Northbrook, IL.
Later I attended The King’s College (at that time in Briarcliff Manor, NY), a multidenominational conglomerate of beliefs, teaching a progressive conservative theology. I studied biology and had many questions about how my faith integrated with science. Many of my beliefs were developed during these years of daily chapel and personal readings.
Scripture, reason and experience. (... oh ... and my wife) :smilewinkgrin:
I don’t find this such a strange question. There are some things I believe that are solid beliefs and others that are less so. I’ve changed and modified my beliefs often enough to say my beliefs are my own and I can accept that others walk a different path. I do like to hear reasoned responses to people’s opinions that vary from my own. I expect to learn and change more as I grow.
Absolutely! We have a tendency to think God is like us and has limits like our own. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle ground on many of these issues.
Some issues seem to demand a single solution but we don't have the right answer yet.
Other times I know I'm right and YOU ARE WRONG! but that's okay, it's your weakness showing :laugh:
Change happens slowly but I’ve been around long enough to know that unless you’re as stubborn as a billy goat, change is inevitable.
Research, reason, experences (some my own, sometimes the experiences of others.
Nah.
… now that was the question that was strange. The Spirit works to mold me closer to Christ’s image. Of course he is developing my beliefs. We act out what we believe.
Rob
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What?!?! Bennie Hinn is a fraud? Nooooo!!!!! ......kidding
I spent my early years as a lost person and Christian in a Charismatic church. It was "interesting". The Sunday morning service could not end until someone spoke in tongues. The drummer in the church was a "prophet" who was visited by an angel. I can't remember what exactly he would claim the angel told him....I was 10-11 at the time....but I remember turning around to look at my mom with a , "this guy is crazy" look. I eventually got my mom to switch churches. Landed at an SBC church.