Why Does God Chasten His Children?

[James_Newman]

The teaching is that everything we do for the Lord will be revealed for what it is actually made of. The day, in my opinion, is the day we stand at the Judgment Seat of Christ. (vs. 10 & Romans 14:10)


This would refer to someone who is saved, yet has no real regard for the work of God with the objective of giving God the glory. He serves God with selfish motives. His works will be burned up and he will be saved, not "by fire," but rather, "as by fire." In other words, he escaped eternal punishment by the slimmest of margins. He was "as a brand plucked from the fire."


There is no continuation of the same thought from verse 15. Paul has moved on to another issue. Remember, when Paul wrote this letter, we didn't have chapters and verses like we do today. The mere fact that these verses follow, is no indication that they are connected. The context, not a preconceived idea, must govern our belief.

Apparently that thought is not connected to anything. Would not the context be verses before it and after it? Is the building that is being built on the foundation some other building than the temple of God? Should we not be careful that we are not deceiving ourselves, lest we find that we have been guilty of defiling the temple with our wood hay and stubble and be destroyed at the judgment seat?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

The context, in my opinion, goes back to verse 9. Paul was merely interjecting a side thought in verses 10-15.

Should we not be careful that we are not deceiving ourselves, lest we find that we have been guilty of defiling the temple with our wood hay and stubble and be destroyed at the judgment seat?

The "defiling" and "destroying" are the same exact Greek words. How would you define our "defiling" of the temple and God's "destroying" of those who do?

 

[Hope of Glory]

This would refer to someone who is saved, yet has no real regard for the work of God with the objective of giving God the glory. He serves God with selfish motives. His works will be burned up and he will be saved, not "by fire," but rather, "as by fire." In other words, he escaped eternal punishment by the slimmest of margins. He was "as a brand plucked from the fire."

It's "dia"; as through fire, not by fire.

However, you are quite correct that a man can live completely through the flesh and serve God either through fear only or to receive glory himself. However, he is still serving God.

What about the saved person who does not serve God at all?

 

[James_Newman]

The context, in my opinion, goes back to verse 9. Paul was merely interjecting a side thought in verses 10-15.



The "defiling" and "destroying" are the same exact Greek words. How would you define our "defiling" of the temple and God's "destroying" of those who do?

The defiling of the temple would have to be the works that we are building with. If we adorn the temple with the works of gold and silver and precious gems, god will add unto us a reward. If we defile the temple with wood hay and stubble (no matter how pretty we arrange it) He will add unto us the reward for those works (suffer loss.) So the destroying is reaping those rewards for the works of wood hay and stubble.

2 Corinthians 5:9-10
9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

We may receive bad for the bad things we have done in the body. Thus the exhortation to labor in order to be accepted of Him, that we might receive a good reward and not have to receive the bad.

 

[J. Jump]

I apologize, friend, but I cannot follow your reasoning here. You seem to ask a question and then answer it. I'm not sure what you are looking for from me.

No need to apologize. Here are the questions that I asked so I could get an understanding of where you are coming from.

As will most, if not all of us when we pass from this life.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (KJV)

Here is your quote.

My question to you is . . . Is the "As will most" statement your way of saying all Christians die disobedient and unfaithful? Or is your "As will most" a statement that most Christians will die disobedient and unfaithful, but there are some that will die faithful and obedient?

Do you consider yourself to be among the faithful and obedient? Or do you consider yourself to be among the disobdient and unfaithful?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Thank you for clarifying. I believe nothing more than I am just a sinner saved by the grace of God. By myself, I am now, and always will be unfaithful and disobedient. Only by the grace and mercy of God can I attain heaven, and only then will I be perfectly faithful and obedient.

 

[J. Jump]

Only by the grace and mercy of God can I attain heaven, and only then will I be perfectly faithful and obedient.

But Pastor Bob spiritual salvation is not based on our obedience and/or faithfulness. Spiritual salvation is not something that we "attain," but is something that is given to us.

The Bible teaches us that we can be faithful, obedient and overcoming in this life. And not only can we, but it is a must if we are to inherit the coming kingdom of Christ.

And as you have said our obedience and faithfulness is not based on us (except for dying to self), but the grace of God.

I love the definition that a friend of mine's dad came up with for grace. It is God doing for us what He requires of us and then giving us credit as if we did it ourselves.

This not only happens at the moment of salvation, but we are to grow in grace throughout our wilderness journey. And it is that grace that allows us to be found faithful, obedient, overcomers at the point of death.

If we continue to walk in the flesh and in disobedience and rebellion God is not going to give us a rule over anything, and the question is why should He?

If we can't even be found faithful in this life, why should He trust us just because we died?

 

[James_Newman]

Thank you for clarifying. I believe nothing more than I am just a sinner saved by the grace of God. By myself, I am now, and always will be unfaithful and disobedient. Only by the grace and mercy of God can I attain heaven, and only then will I be perfectly faithful and obedient.

How do you reconcile your unfaithfulness with Paul's admonition to Timothy that a bishop be blameless? Obviously there is a distinction between absolute righteousness and relative righteousness. In one sense we are all guilty before God. But we ought not remain in the sins that we were once in bondage to. We have been set free, haven't we?

 

[Allan]

He wasn't speaking of REMAINING in bondage, but with regard to absolute righteousness (as you stated).

None of us in these imperfect bodies will ever be FREE from sin until we have our glorified bodies.

Yes, we have been set free from the bondage of that which controled us - our sin nature. And now we have a new nature that wars with the other for dominance and control that we may be pleasing to God our Father.
We being set free can put under submission the old nature, but will never be able to completely subdue that old nature until God does His final work of glorifying our natural bodies into supernatural bodies without sin. - AMEN to that!!

 

[James_Newman]

But what of those who hardly try to subdue that old nature?

 

[Allan]

...those who HARDLY TRy to subdue...

This shows me that either God is in the discipline aspect of their walk, or they are just about to get there. God disciplines us to bring us back into a right fellowship with Him.

 

[James_Newman]

This shows me that either God is in the discipline aspect of their walk, or they are just about to get there. God disciplines us to bring us back into a right fellowship with Him.

Why is it important for a believer to be in right fellowship with God?

 

[Allan]

For the same reason it is IMPORTANT for a child to be in a right relationship with his Father (Mother, Parent, Gaurdian, or overlord)

 

[Allan]

God desires fellowship,
not a trophy!