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Why God forbid the Jews to eat Pork.

hillclimber

New Member
Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hillclimber:
If you are going to keep that portion of the law, why not keep all of it? Whould you not be that much more spiritual, and healthy?
The bottom line is "how many ways are there to ignore the Word of God?".

In other words -- if we dont simply "ignore all of it" then can we just turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING before the cross?

You know - the Gospels and ALL the OT???

What about just ignoring the first 5 books of the Bible?

OF course that would mean that all the NT writers were wrong to quote those 5 books -- but we could pretend not to notice that - couldn't we?

In Christ,

Bob
</font>[/QUOTE]I'm certainly not advocating ignoring any of the Bible. But differentiate between the different areas of it, with the Golden rule of Bible Study:
1. Who is speaking?

2. To whom is he speaking?

3. About what is he speaking?

4. When was it spoken?

All the Bible was written for you
Not all was written to you
Not all was written about you
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I was wondering if any SDA's here believe that eating pork condemns a Christian to hell?

I met a few about four years back who believed this.

God Bless!
 
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TorahKeeper

Guest
I wonder why people are so eager to dismiss the very words of God? He said not to eat it, if you truly are His own would you not want to obey Him? I guess thats too simple?
 

prophecynut

New Member
Romans 14:20

"Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean , but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble." NIV
 

Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
I wonder why people are so eager to dismiss the very words of God? He said not to eat it, if you truly are His own would you not want to obey Him? I guess thats too simple?
He also said to refrain from sitting on a chair tha a menstruating woman has sat upon. Do you do that as well? Gos also says to offer animal sacrifice as a reminder of sin. Do we still do that? God said to wear distinctive clothing apart from the gentiles. I wear the same clothing as the gentiles. God commanded that every male be circumcised on the 8th day. Do we as Christians do that still? (the majority of Christians don't circumcise their sons at all). God commands in the OT to celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb. Do we still do that?


God never instructs without a reason. The reasons for these and other old Covenant laws has long since passed.
 
T

TorahKeeper

Guest
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I wonder who said that???

Of course if you separate the Son and the Father then you get to ignore His commandments.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Wonder who said that?

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Wonder who said that??

For I [am] the LORD, I change not..

Guess who said that?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Anyone wanna guess who said that??

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Sounds like someone was speaking of the 'modern' day church to me, but what do I know.

You may disagree with me but remember, the Law was spoken by the very Mouth of God Himself. So if you want to eliminate it, remember this, you will get to explain that to Him one day, I hope you have a good answer.
 

Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Then answer my questions:

God also said to refrain from sitting on a chair tha a menstruating woman has sat upon. Do you do that as well?

God also says to offer animal sacrifice as a reminder of sin. Do you do that?

God said to wear distinctive clothing apart from the gentiles. I wear the same clothing as the gentiles. What clothing do you wear?

God commanded that every male be circumcised on the 8th day. Do we as Christians do that still? Do you? (the majority of Christians don't circumcise their sons at all).

God commands in the OT to celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb. Do we still do that?
 
T

TorahKeeper

Guest
I guess we can just eliminate God's commandments. Its ok, God didnt really mean it when He said to be obedient.

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

I guess Yeshua didn't really mean that did He, He was just kiddin'
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Good questions Johnv. I would like to hear answers to these from TorahKeeper as well.

God Bless!
 

Petrel

New Member
TorahKeeper, you accept the New Testament, right? The abolition of circumcision as a requirement for believers is a major event in New Testament history. We believe that the Law was given to the people so that they would become aware of their sin (Romans 3:20) and of the necessity for a blood sacrifice to cover that sin (Hebrews 9:6-10).

In fact, that Hebrews reference is so clear I'll post it in greater length (6-15).

When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
As I see it, all of the ceremonial laws regarding uncleaness, whether from touching a dead animal, eating unclean meat, sitting where a menstruating woman had sat--all of that was just to illustrate to the people the importance of being separate from the world and also the impossibility of remaining clean by their own efforts. Ultimately they all needed a sacrifice.

The ceremonial uncleaness and the sacrifical system required to purge it were a type of what was to come. That was Jesus, who became both High Priest and sacrifice for us in the Most Holy never seen by human eyes.

Hebrews 10:11-25
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."

Then he adds:

"Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more."

And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin. Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Jesus made the final sacrifice that is forever sufficient to cover all of our sins. Trying to follow the ceremonial Law at this point would be like running through the dress rehearsal after the last curtain call.

There are still parts of the Law that are in effect today. The parts governing morality are still in effect. However, I don't think that the distinction between the clean and unclean animals is based on this type of morality. I think the separation of clean and unclean was more to illustrate the way that the Chosen People had been separated from the world. Evidence of this is found in Paul's vision in Acts 10. There the unclean animals that he is told to eat are symbolic of the Gentiles. The purpose of the dream was to tell Paul to take the gospel to the Gentiles, so the division between the Jews and the Gentiles had been abolished and thus the reason for calling animals unclean.

The very fact that meat from unclean animals isn't really considered in the New Testament argues that it isn't important now. All of the evidence that we have regarding meat (Acts 10, Romans 14:20, Acts 15) indicates that the clean/unclean divide had been done away with. When coupled with the teachings on the Law in Galatians and Hebrews, I think it becomes clear that this isn't an issue for us today.

Sorry to get so long-winded. The topic of the Law and how it foreshadows Jesus is really interesting to me! :D
 

Johnv

New Member
Torahkeeper, you have not yet answered my questions:

God also said to refrain from sitting on a chair tha a menstruating woman has sat upon. Do you do that as well?

God also says to offer animal sacrifice as a reminder of sin. Do you do that?

God said to wear distinctive clothing apart from the gentiles. I wear the same clothing as the gentiles. What clothing do you wear?

God commanded that every male be circumcised on the 8th day. Do we as Christians do that still? Do you? (the majority of Christians don't circumcise their sons at all).

God commands in the OT to celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb. Do we still do that?
 
T

TorahKeeper

Guest
If you knew anything about the sacrificial system you would know that you can only sacrifice on a altar properly dedicated to God at the Temple, so I cannot do those. The other commandments, I do them as best as I can. Does that provide or maintain my salvation? Of course not, its just I have decided to be obedient to the Creator of the World. I guess my question is, why dont you want to be obedient to Him? Why would you encourage others to be dis-obedient?
 

Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
If you knew anything about the sacrificial system you would know that you can only sacrifice on a altar properly dedicated to God at the Temple, so I cannot do those.

Does your place of worship engage in animal sacrifices? If they don't, then you should be calling for them, and the rest of us, to adopt this practice.
The other commandments, I do them as best as I can.

Then you should be able to answer the questions. They're simple "yes" or "no":

Do you refrain from sitting on a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon?

Do you wear distinctive clothing to set yourself apart from the gentiles?

Do you or your church engage in the practice of circumcising your male children on the 8th day after birth.

Do you celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb?

Does that provide or maintain my salvation? Of course not...

I never said it did.
Why would you encourage others to be dis-obedient?
I don't. I disagree with your requisite for obedience.
 
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TorahKeeper

Guest
Like I said before, if you understood the sacrificial system you would know that sacrifices are to be done only on a properly dedicated altar in Jerusalem. If I called for sacrifices or conducted them, I would be in violation. Can I obey the law perfectly, of course not, I never claimed to. I do the best I can. Do I willingly do the things you stated no, if I do mess up, I can be forgiven. I have no children so I havent circumcised anyone.

If you say we are to not obey these and all the commandments then you are advocating disobedience.

Choose ye this day whom you will serve, Ba'al or God? The choice is yours. Be careful.
 

Johnv

New Member
Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
Do I willingly do the things you stated no
How hypocritical. You tell us we're in disobedience when we eat pork, yet you say clearly that you willingly disobey God's other OT laws. By your own standards, I guess you've chosen whom ye serve.
 
T

TorahKeeper

Guest
I suppose I should have stated that I dont disobey those commandments, I apologize for the unclear statement. I am not the one who said you are disobedient, talk to the One who spoke the commandment if you dont like it. I have chosen God
 

Johnv

New Member
Then you can answer my questions:

Do you refrain from sitting on a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon?

Do you wear distinctive clothing to set yourself apart from the gentiles?

Does your church engage in the practice of circumcising your male children on the 8th day after birth? Will you, if you have a son, circumcize him eight days after birth?

Do you celebrate passover with a sacrificed passover lamb?
 
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TorahKeeper

Guest
How many times do I have to say that I obey.

Yes I do refrain from the chair.

I try to keep my clothing separate but its hard to sometimes.

There is no law that says a congregation is to circumcise a boy.

How many times do I need to tell you about the sacrifices, can you read????

Let me ask, do you have any idea why God spoke those Laws?
 
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