Why I am not a Calvinist....

[Martin Marprelate]

you forgot Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up ALL unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon ALL."

Does this mean
1. That you have no answer to any of the points I made in post #154?
2. That you are a Universalist. Do you believe that God has mercy on ALL?

The briefest look at the context of Romans 11:32 shows that 'all' refers to Jews and Gentiles alike (vs. 30-31).

 

[rockytopva]

I would agree... However... That if Christ is genuinely born in the heart that the OSAS can be true. I know a few Baptist ladies at work who I consider genuinely saved and it would be a shock if they were ever found otherwise.

But for those still tinkering around the worldly life, then no, OSAS does not apply to them.

 

[JonC]

you forgot Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up ALL unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon ALL."

SavedByGrace,

Where exactly are you getting your ideas about what Calvinism actually teaches (not what some Calvinists may teach, but what the doctrine itself holds to be true)? I don't ask to defend Calvinism (I am not a Calvinist) but because your arguments reflect a misunderstanding of the system.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

For anyone who believes in the predestination of the elect to salvation, would have to also believe in the predestination of the non-elect to damnation. This is what Augustine taught, because he saw that you cannot have the one without the other.

John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing but should raise it up at the last day." Here is your predestination. God has given to the Son an elect people to save (c.f. John 17:2) and He has saved every single one of them; none will be lost.

John 6:40. "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." And here is the sinner's warrant; everyone who believes will be saved. No one will be told, "I'm sorry; you may have repented and believed but you're not one of the elect so you can't come in," Or "I'm sorry, but the grace has run out. There wasn't quite enough of Christ's blood to go around!" No, no! Everyone who trusts in Christ for salvation will be saved, and we must preach the Gospel to all, but when someone is saved, he will find that God had loved him in eternity past and given him to the Son to redeem and the Holy Spirit has drawn him with lovingkindness (Jeremiah 31:3)..

 

[BobRyan]

So then ... apart from some vitriol -- no response to texts --

They remain therefore - unrefuted
================================================
Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture.


John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”


"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.

"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.

God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.

God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"


Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"

"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[BobRyan]

After skimming through the past 6 pages... I noticed a pattern...

"the less Bible texts... the more calm and reasoned the Calvinist response to the posts"

 

[BobRyan]

you forgot Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up ALL unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon ALL."

Nice.

"All" would need to be "redefined at will" in a pick-and-choose Calvinist style to "fix" Romans 11

 

[BobRyan]

Saved-By-Grace said: ↑
you forgot Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up ALL unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon ALL."

Does this mean
1. That you have no answer to any of the points I made in post #154?
2. That you are a Universalist. Do you believe that God has mercy on ALL?

The briefest look at the context of Romans 11:32 shows that 'all' refers to Jews and Gentiles alike (vs. 30-31).

Hint: Romans 11:32 is a problem for Calvinism not Arminians.

In the Arminian Bible "God so loved the WORLD... yes REALLY"
In the Arminian Bible "he is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really" 1 John 2:2
In the Arminian Bible "God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD.. yes really" 1 John 4:14
In the Arminian Bible the result of free will choice is that "FEW are on the narrow road and MANY on the wide road" Matthew 7...
NOT because of some Calvinist imagined "arbitrary selection-election" on God's part Romans 2:11.

 

[Iconoclast]

So then ... apart from some vitriol -- no response to texts --

They remain therefore - unrefuted
================================================
Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture.


John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”


"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.

"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.

God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.

God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"


Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"

"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Off topic spamming the board

 

[InTheLight]

Is she a Calvinist? Not likely. She sounds like the product of Pelagian/Semi-Pelagian-decisional-walk-the-aisle "Christianity.

The amazing thatbrian, mind reader extraordinaire!


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[BobRyan]

Off topic spamming the board

As I said "apart from vitriol" and of course false accusation.

The title is "Why I am not a Calvinist"
The Bible texts "are WHY"
Your response is simply the way Calvinists look at Scripture that explains why we are not Calvinist.

Where is the confusing part here?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hint: Romans 11:32 is a problem for Calvinism not Arminians.

In the Arminian Bible "God so loved the WORLD... yes REALLY"
In the Arminian Bible "he is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really" 1 John 2:2
In the Arminian Bible "God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD.. yes really" 1 John 4:14
In the Arminian Bible the result of free will choice is that "FEW are on the narrow road and MANY on the wide road" Matthew 7...
NOT because of some Calvinist imagined "arbitrary selection-election" on God's part Romans 2:11.

I realise that those things are in the Arminian Bible....yes REALLY.
That is why I am a Calvinist.

And your reference to Romans 2:11 is particularly wretched. Look at the context, man!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hint: Romans 11:32 is a problem for Calvinism not Arminians.

I don't think you'll find it is.
'All' is far more a problem for Arminians because they require it to mean 'every single one' and they find that they have suddenly come universalists.
The meaning of 'all,' like the meaning of most words, has to be determined by context.
Those who are as old as I am may remember a song by an Irish lady called Dana entitled 'All kinds of everything (remind me of you.' If one had asked her if 'all kinds' included road-kill, public lavatories and rat poison, she would have said, "Don't be so silly!"
Which is what I say to you. In Romans 11, verse 30 ('you') refers to the Gentiles; verse 31 ('these,' 'they') refers to the Jews. Therefore the 'all' in verse 32 refers to Jew and Gentile alike. But not all Jews and not all Gentiles will be saved.

 

[thatbrian]

Is she a Calvinist? Not likely. She sounds like the product of Pelagian/Semi-Pelagian-decisional-walk-the-aisle "Christianity.

Sounds like she is an adherent of Charles Finney and Billy Graham's version of Christianity.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am in my mid-50's and never married. I met a girl at work who I thought was right for me. Come to find out she is Baptist... Well, not that big of problem! But... The more that woman talked! Come to find out she sees nothing wrong with mixing the party and sex life with Christianity. On confronting her over this she looks at me and says....

"Are you trying to threaten my salvation?"

Apparently she knows enough about OSAS doctrine to think that she is eternally secure and immune from any kind of punishment.

John Calvin... I wish the Catholics would have done him in while he was in France!

So you are condoning murder because of what, someone offends you cause they want purity in their life?

 

[Iconoclast]

As I said "apart from vitriol" and of course false accusation.

The title is "Why I am not a Calvinist"
The Bible texts "are WHY"
Your response is simply the way Calvinists look at Scripture that explains why we are not Calvinist.

Where is the confusing part here?

The confusing part is how you misunderstand everything.
The op. is about the videos with the title....Why I am not a cal.....
So your spamming the verses you do are off topic...
We know why you are not a cal....your leader had hallucinations about a halo around the 4th commandment

 

[BobRyan]

The confusing part is how you misunderstand everything.

Sweeping false accusations are pretty easy to make.

I think we all knew that.

T
The op. is about the videos with the title....Why I am not a cal.....

Hint: all the posts NOT limited to being "stuck on your video" and making your point for you.

Here for example we have you making your nonsense argument in the OP which you now claim all posts are limited to also doing.

Here is a strawman fest...by a foolish person bound up in KJV only and a narrow dispensationalism that many dispensationalists would also reject.

How far can you get before you are disgusted,lol

We all know that simply is not happening on this thread. Few people would choose to limit themselves to that sort of childish rant about someone not even able to post on this thread.

So your spamming the verses you do are off topic...

Not in real life. In real life the subject is in the title and you "making your own point" is not what everyone else has to also do ... make your point with you.

your leader had hallucinations <obligatory rant deleted here>

Perfect example of the nonsense you are promoting.. even your understanding of what is on topic... totally flawed.

 

[BobRyan]

Saved-By-Grace said: ↑
you forgot Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up ALL unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon ALL."

Martin Marprelate said: ↑
Does this mean
1. That you have no answer to any of the points I made in post #154?
2. That you are a Universalist. Do you believe that God has mercy on ALL?

Hint: Romans 11:32 is a problem for Calvinism not Arminians.

In the Arminian Bible "God so loved the WORLD... yes REALLY"
In the Arminian Bible "he is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really" 1 John 2:2
In the Arminian Bible "God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD.. yes really" 1 John 4:14
In the Arminian Bible the result of free will choice is that "FEW are on the narrow road and MANY on the wide road" Matthew 7...
NOT because of some Calvinist imagined "arbitrary selection-election" on God's part Romans 2:11.

I don't think you'll find it is.
'All' is far more a problem for Arminians because they require it to mean 'every single one' and they find that they have suddenly come universalists.
The meaning of 'all,' like the meaning of most words, has to be determined by context.
Those who are as old as I am may remember a song by an Irish lady called Dana entitled 'All kinds of everything (remind me of you.' If one had asked her if 'all kinds' included road-kill, public lavatories and rat poison, she would have said, "Don't be so silly!"
Which is what I say to you. In Romans 11, verse 30 ('you') refers to the Gentiles; verse 31 ('these,' 'they') refers to the Jews. Therefore the 'all' in verse 32 refers to Jew and Gentile alike. But not all Jews and not all Gentiles will be saved.

Since I was recently informed by the author of this thread that "why I am not a Calvinist" is not the actual subject ... but rather the complaint "about the video" is the subject... I have started a thread that IS on the SUBJECT that the Title states and am responding to your post on that thread.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
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[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:30 AM Pacific.