Why I became a calvinist

[agedman]

It was God theFfather pleasure and will that His own Son endured the wrath intended for lost sinners in order to secure them a sure salvation.

No doubt, yet the wrath remains as seen in the pouring out of the Revelation bowls.

One is obligated to consider (as some holding to wrath poured out upon Christ) that the crucifixion was sufficient for all and effective for a few. I don’t find that presentation consistent with Scriptures either.

Therefore, because the wrath remains, the crucifixion cannot be only about the “wrath” part of penal substitution, rather reflect other valid presentations such as has been noted.

I do not dispute Christ was treated with wrath, the humans did all that prophets described and all that the demonic efforts could exert. He was victorious, the substitute, the redeemer, ....

It is also important to visit the very last written account to see God’s expressions at that final judgment.

That scene is not wrath, but of court judgment. Evidence is shown, and those condemned already are cast into an eternity of the second death and torment. Again not in wrath, but in judgment’s execution of the verdict of condemned in unbelief.

 

[agedman]

It was God theFfather pleasure and will that His own Son endured the wrath intended for lost sinners in order to secure them a sure salvation.

That isn’t in doubt.

What I reject is that such wrath was from God in the form of some kind of rebuke.

 

[Yeshua1]

That isn’t in doubt.

What I reject is that such wrath was from God in the form of some kind of rebuke.

God the Father saw Jesus while upon that Cross as sin bearer, so had to treat Him as being like chief of sinners!

 

[agedman]

God the Father saw Jesus while upon that Cross as sin bearer, so had to treat Him as being like chief of sinners!

Not true.

Christ remained “without sin” yet “carried our sins and sorrows.”

God had no reason to look upon His Son needing rebuke.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not true.

Christ remained “without sin” yet “carried our sins and sorrows.”

God had no reason to look upon His Son needing rebuke.

he who knew no sin became sin for us, so at that time while upon the Cross, the father had to treat him Justas he had actually sinned! 'My God why have you forsaken me?"

 

[Scott Downey]

Not true.

Christ remained “without sin” yet “carried our sins and sorrows.”

God had no reason to look upon His Son needing rebuke.

Isaiah 53:4-6 ESV
Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Christ was the perfect lamb of God without spot or blemish. His sacrifice followed the pattern laid down in the law about sin offerings which had to be perfect. God laid the sin of the people upon the offering, for by the shedding of blood was the forgiveness of sin. So then Christ was made to become sin and received the death penalty as the soul that sins shall die so that we could live and not perish.

 

[Yeshua1]

Isaiah 53:4-6 ESV
Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Christ was the perfect lamb of God without spot or blemish. His sacrifice followed the pattern laid down in the law about sin offerings which had to be perfect. God laid the sin of the people upon the offering, for by the shedding of blood was the forgiveness of sin. So then Christ was made to become sin and received the death penalty as the soul that sins shall die so that we could live and not perish.

The mysteries on thatCross is How the sinless Son of God became our sin bearer, and How God thew father actually had to view and treat him as being SIN, so he was treated as if really was guilty of our sins, and yet Jesus suffered for worms such as I!