Why I believe in the Eternal Son (Eternal Sonship)

[percho]

NEVER!

Well for sure something changed.

And methinks it was μορφή - morphe - and that morphe must have been inclusive of being for a little while, a little lower than the angels which included being able to die and or be dead. Whatever that means.

who in the days of his (?Word?) flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from (out of) death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,

How could God, die the death, and be saved out of death?

Paul, bondman of God, and apostle of Jesus Christ according to the faith of God's elect, and knowledge of the truth which is according to piety; in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised before the ages of time,

After all, before the foundation of the world, the heart and intent <Word IMHO) of God was to redeem from death 1 Peter 1:18-20 Which IMHO brings about belief V 21 who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God.

 

[JonC]

Dovetail in the following, time and relative to your thoughts. 1 Cor 15:24 then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --

I always have wanted to fit, the end, in between Rev 20:14,15 and Rev 21:1 however I believe I have left some holes that need filling. I have verses I do not know what to do with.

1. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18
2. And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. Acts 1:7
3. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Acts 2:34,35
4 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:20,21

Sometimes I wonder, Who's on second?

Good observations.

Sometimes I think that we fail in that we present Christ as a means to the Father rather than the only God man can know. All we know of God, and all we can know of God, is in and through the person of Jesus Christ. I believe that this is the significance of "son" and of "logos". But we often fall victim to "backdoor theology" (trying to obtain knowledge of God by going around Christ).

 

[37818]

What have all those got to do with proving the eternal Sonship of our Lord?
That there were appearances of the angel of the Lord which were pre-incarnate appearances of the Word of God no one denies, but that's the Word of God then before he became flesh (Jn.1:14).
That Isaiah saw the Word of God is not proof that he was already the Son.
That there were prophecies of the Sonship of Christ is not proof that he was already the Son.

The only thing you need to understand is what I understand is all appearances of the LORD God in the OT is idenrified as the Son who is at His Father's side per John 1:18. Your agreement is not required in order for me to have this understanding. I am well aware the statement as found in John 1:18 was written post incarnation.

 

[George Antonios]

all appearances of the LORD God in the OT is identified as the Son

All?

 

[Yeshua1]

But if God sent the Word to become flesh, doesn't that mean the Word had to comply prior to becoming flesh? And doesn't that imply subordination?

I don't think subordination and equality are mutually exclusive.

The trinity , all 3 of them, had the plan of the Cross always to go!

 

[Yeshua1]

When do you believe the Second Person if the Trinity became the Word?

The second person of the Trinity was always the word of the Father!

 

[Yeshua1]

What is the difference, in your view, between "eternal sonship" and the Reformed view that Christ is eternally begotten of the Father?

Basically the same thing, but there are some such as John Calvin and Dr Raymond who rejected that thinking!

 

[Yeshua1]

As John 1:1 speaks of "eternity past", there is no "becoming" involved, as Jesus Christ IS always THE WORD, but it very clearly does not say "the Son"!

Calvin wanted to see us keep the concept of all 3 Persons of the Trinity were fully God in and by themselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

nice to hear that of Calvin, at least he got this one right, though his understanding of the Greek in John 10:30, is way off!

Jesus and the Father are identical in essence, whatever makes up being God both have equally!

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you believe "the Word" means?

The One, Agent, that the Father used to create/sustain all things, and who was the person of God that showed up to speak to us in both Ot/NT!

 

[Calminian]

The trinity , all 3 of them, had the plan of the Cross always to go!

So you think all persons of the Trinity have that same rolls?

 

[JonC]

Basically the same thing, but there are some such as John Calvin and Dr Raymond who rejected that thinking!

True. I was thinking more along the lines of the 1689 London Baptist Confession where it affirms "the Son is eternally begotten of the Father".

 

[Yeshua1]

@SavedByGrace ,

I defined the "sonship" of Christ as logos, eternally the expression of God, the exact representation of the Father.

How do you define sonship?

As when the Lord became Jesus and walked among us, as at that point in time God was His father in the sense of Him now being the Son!

 

[JonC]

The One, Agent, that the Father used to create/sustain all things, and who was the person of God that showed up to speak to us in both Ot/NT!

That is who He is. But what do you believe "logos" actually means?

It is interesting to me because "Word" is probably the most accurate in English....but we really do not have a a very good definition. I'd say "logos" means the word/ expression.

 

[Yeshua1]

to my thinking "sonship" denotes "subordination", which I do believe Jesus took upon Himself, though remaining Almighty God, to do while on earth, when He submitted to the Father, "for a short time" (Hebrews 2:7,9). And it is only for His time on earth, that the Father was "greater than " Him.

was just during that time while he agreed to be divested of the full glory He normally has, did not cease being God, but veiled himself in the limitations of human flesh!

 

[Yeshua1]

True. I was thinking more along the lines of the 1689 London Baptist Confession where it affirms "the Son is eternally begotten of the Father".

That is why I am Bible primary and foremost, as even in areas Creeds and Confession got it wrong!

 

[Yeshua1]

That is who He is. But what do you believe "logos" actually means?

It is interesting to me because "Word" is probably the most accurate in English....but we really do not have a a very good definition. I'd say "logos" means the word/ expression.

The Visible image and representation of the Invisible God!

 

[JonC]

The Visible image and representation of the Invisible God!

But, again, that is not what "logos" means. I agree that that applies to Christ, but Jesus was the Word even without being a "visible image and representation of the invisible God". The Word existed prior to being "made flesh".

 

[37818]

All?

Yes, all. It is also my understanding all temporal acts of God are done by Him per John 1:3 on behalf of His Father.

 

[George Antonios]

Yes, all. It is also my understanding all temporal acts of God are done by Him per John 1:3 on behalf of His Father.

You understand that based on a verse for each case?