Romans 1 indeed. BTW if you recall Paul builds this idea till he gets to Romans 3...ALL MEN.
So we have Romans 1-3...ALL OF MANKIND.
Eph 4....ALL OF MANKIND.
Eph 2.....ALL OF MANKIND.
Romans 11....ALL OF MANKIND.
What do you think Paul is saying? Part of mankind?
Again, I refer you back to the unanswered post where I quote from MacArthur and other Calvinistic commentators who also make the distinction between all of mankind and those who believe (whether made to believe through effectual means or not, the distinction IS made).
Not at all. I understand you want to look at other verses later in the chapter. We will indeed get to those as well. But please know the verses just before the ones you want to point out, are in full context. This helps give meaning to what Paul says later. right?
I'm not in ANY WAY negating the verses you already presented. I agree that there are a group of Jews who have been reserved from the hardening process (men like Paul) who if not for the direct intervention of Jesus on the road would have clearly remained in his rebellious/hardened condition. God specifically hand picked Paul...not because he deserved it or will it...in fact its clear his will was to kill Christians. We agree on this point ( I think). The REST of the Jews (Pharisees who along with Saul stoned Stephen), remained hardened and rebellious. Why?
1. In their rebellion they kill Christ bringing redemption.
2. In their rebellion they leave room for the Gentiles to come into the church
3. In their rebellion and allowing the Gentiles to come it give them opportunity to experience God and have their lives changed which in turn might provoke the hardened Jews with envy as they see the change in the Gentiles lives.
No one said they were destined to Hell. Let me remind you why I statred posting on this tread
So, in Romans 9 when Paul says God can hardened who He wants and show mercy to who He wants, you don't believe he is talking about the non-elect and elect? Please explain?
We are talking about if God is in control even to the point of hardening mans heart. Also, you seem to think that The Jews were not hardened (for the most part by God) in the OT and other others were, and then it changes in the NT. I have shown this to be in error
Let me clarify. There is a difference between "self-hardening" and "judicial hardening." Self hardening is when the individual simply chooses to ignore the obvious truth and rebel. Judicial hardening is a direct act of God to blind men from the truth so that the truth can't change their will.
As the illustration about the cop explains. The speeder is self hardened because he decided to speed on his own. No one made him want to speed. He freely chose that. The cop hides his presence (judicial hardening) so that the speeder will keep doing what his heart has already determined to do. The cop is not culpable for the speeders crime, but he is only hiding the truth of his presence so as to ensure that the speeder will keep doing what he has already determined in his heart to do. Make sense?
So, I am NOT denying that God has actively blinded the majority of Israel in their rebellion. I believe that whole heartedly. I just don't believe that is an act of certain condemnation to hell, but its actually an act of mercy for the reasons explained above.
So when Paul says..
.the rest were hardened.....7What then? What Israel doth seek after, this it did not obtain, and the chosen did obtain, and the rest were hardened,
Are you saying Paul is holding out on us? There were some that are ELECT.....and the REST were HARDENED....and he forgot about the 3rd group???
The third group is the Gentiles who he addresses in the following verses, as I pointed out. So, there is Israel (the lump of clay) most of which has been hardened and used for common use, but some from Israel have been chosen for noble purposes (to take the message to the world...even the Gentiles). One lump (Israel) molded by God for two purposes. But even those of Israel who are hardened could leave their unbelief and be saved. That is Paul's point.
