Why is it bad to be intimate before marriage?

Lets look at the Old Testament for a minute shall we. King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines, if he were married at the moment of fooling around then wouldnt they have all been his wife and not concubines, just a thought.

 

The Bible I use the most reads "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body", I Corinthians 6:15-18.

His Word if One is in marriage and goes outside of that marriage, then one is in adultery. If the one that will enter into the marriage of another already married, then this one will commit "fornication" as this one is now also married to the one that is in adultery.

If we take our virgin, break her flower, we are married in Holy Matrimony. If either dies, the other is free to remarry one that is not in adultery or fornication. We can then again be married in Holy Matrimony. Our bed is not defiled.

Amen! Was Abraham obligated; or David, or Solomon, or……..? Why OK for them and not us? They are of the "Kingdom Church", and not the "Body Church". They all are justified by faith, but we today are justified through faith, we that are in the "Body of Christ". He goes where we go. It was not so in other "dispensations".

We today live in the NEW DISPENSATIONAL gospel that Christ gave to Paul. That Old gospel will not hold to the New gospel. It is Old and faded and torn apart. We are to leave behind that "great commission" for now. No longer, in this Grace dispensation, are the Jew and Gentile separated, for there is no difference today - "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"

I believe it helps to understand what Jesus says about His first visit to earth as man, and what His purpose was at that time, in that dispensation. We see it in Matthew 15:22-28, "And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

Jesus did not and would not preach the gospel for the circumcised to a Gentile. He had compassion on the daughter and healed her because the mother believed Jesus had the power to heal. Here faith, not that she are her daughter would be saved, counted only to the healing of a sinful body.

It took Him about 30 years to get this through my head. I look, read this for umpteen years, but never understood. I finally asked Him to start doing the interpretation for me. I soon realized He is telling us something that affects our lives, and we are to let Him tell us His meanings.

Right on. The original Greek "porneia" takes us farther along than "outside of marriage". We are talking (whether we are married or not) when we climb aboard "perversion of sex". Not married or we step outside of our marriage where we see such as homosexuality, bestiality, whoredom, oral, incest, and other acts . In marriage of the man and woman not living in sin of adultery or fornication, we can do certain things prohibited "outside of Holy Matrimony". We know "homosexuality, bestiality, whoredom, and other things cannot be brought into our Marriage for these are unclean and lascivious. God give permission for we to "lust", we that are one, but not when we "lust" outside of ourselves.

 

Paul states a preference for another approach.

1Cr 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1Cr 7:8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

 

I am quite familiar with what you quoted. I think you are mixing up fornication and adultery and have limited both of them. You did not answer my question directly.

James 4:4, 5, "You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?"

 

I have read through this thread, blackstarling. It has shifted somewhat from your original question, which I will address later; please allow me to offer a few observations.

 

Whether we can understand it or not, we are to believe it for it is the Word of God. But we must ask the question, "did he rape her"?. I don't find that here. He may have forced here, but it was not against her will for no mention is made of that. She acquiesced did she not, so it was consensual sex. The man usually is the aggressor, and it was so this time, and she allowed him in. Whether we fully understand or not, we see what we believe to be tilted all throughout the Bible.

I comes with our understanding that Christ is the head of His Church, and we are the Body, it follows (by scripture) that the man is the head of the woman. Christ is in control and we are not. The man is in control and the woman is not, but many today believe the woman can be the head and be in control of a church, and of man. How sad is the ignorance of those that profess to understand the Word of God.

My grandmother would wring the neck of the chicken for our Sunday meal, when we visited her. The body thought it was in control for it kept on "flopping around", but it was dead. The head gave it power, but when the head died, it had enough sense to stay dead, but the body keep "flopping wildly around" with no direction or purpose other than to keep on "flopping". This is amusing and something to laugh at to be sure, and wonder about. Some believe they have "life" but they are just "flopping around", and die without a head (I'm talking about the unsaved here, and not necessarily of some saved without much understanding.

 

I really don't see what you are taking exception to. You asked "Where does the Bible state that fornication is marriage". I give you Paul on your request. I saw no reference in your request for information on Adultery, other than, perhaps you agree, the broad term of fornication can include adultery?

I'm not quite sure what you are showing, or requesting in your James remarks, unless getting more into spiritual adultery, leading even to fornication.

 

Well,

I will be praying for you!

Wayne

 

My point is that I believe for someone to be called an adulterer and he is not married does not fit in the specific sense of marital infidelity--adultery. Fornication better fits the action.

In a general sense adulterers are those who adulterate scripture by doing their own thing and wavering away from God as in James and Malachi.

Yes adultery fits under the broader category of porneia.

 

I know we agree on quite a few things, and this looks to be another, with caveat.

I believe I can now see clearly your reason for questioning of mine. You see the man in blackstarling's life is not married, where I do in the "eyes of God".

I see proof that convinces me the man in blackstarling's life is married, and I know you have proof convincing you otherwise. We both came to the same conclusion that the man committed fornication, in which I can see adultery, but you cannot.

Agree. Under the reign of Rehoboam the tribes divided; The 10 entered into apostasy on the run, while the 2 southern tribes kind of sauntered into the worshiping of idols and all that goes with it.

So strange when we join the world everything looks so right for we are doing the same things that just about all in the world do. It must be right for everybody else is doing it. We all should recognize what we are doing and saying. It is the same of we all do in our early development of life. "But gee whiz, you won't let me do anything. Everybody else in school does it." Isn't this those that are still "babes"?

Off subject here, and I know there are not very many that can see what the Baptist, Presbyterians, and Methodists understood about Christmas in the 1800's and before. These churches would not open their churches on December 25. They knew this was adding to the Word, as is the Easter Holy Day. I personally do not accept either of these for God did not intend it to be so. But those within the churches have made it so, for they still cannot get away from the "apron strings" of the Catholic church.

 

The whole question brings to mind the practice by some Christian sects of a tradition called "bundling", where a young man and woman spend the night in bed together, clothing on, and sometimes with a board between them. Fully accepted by many, including some Amish traditions, it was part of early American courtship for some. It also is know that the clothing and the board sometimes didn't stay in place. Still some churches approved, and even endorsed the practice. The idea was a deep level of intimacy with the approval of the young people's families and church.

The traditional "boy meets girl, they fall in love and get married" story is not the prevalent one in the recent past. It had more to do with property, dowries, and arranged marriage more than love and selecting your own spouse.

 

Agree, and the arranged marriages were not what Adam had done or said should be done in the matter of marriage. He chose the woman as his mate, and not just a "helpmate".

 

I am tired . . . I pray this old sergeant can make a little sense without being totally off base. But, first about being off base . . . is that on ramp from the mall area getting on All American going back to Bragg still there?

Airborne! Don't tell anyone . . . but, my baby used to hit the bottom of that on ramp at 65 and be screaming for more . . . I miss her . . . Corvettes do hang tight!

Airborne! Tell everyone hello for me - they won't remember, but that is ok.

Where do you go to church?

It is difficult being married in the Service.

I would say that there seem to be two different questions in this thread.

1. How should I date?

2. How do I know if this is the right person?

1. - I ain't got an answer . . .

2. My gut tells me - ask his buddies . . . what is he really like . . . a soldier saying, "I won't ask if I think you will say no." Doesn't sound like he is ready to commit . . .

Kinda like seeing the green light and saying, "But jumpmaster, I don't wanna go."

I am tired . . . I pray this old sergeant made a little sense without being totally off base.

PS - I and many other vets (I am DAV) pray for ya'll. You make us proud of you and what we stood for as well. God bless you. There are so many that cannot do what you do . . . be proud.