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Why is it called the Texus Receptus (recieved text)?
- Thread starter Comrade
- Start date
Well, it wouldn't have been exactly the TR he used, but it might have been manuscripts similar to those on which the TR is based. Can you give an example or two of where Polycarp quotes from sources that disagree with the Alexandrian text family and follow the texts that the KJV is based on? </font>[/QUOTE]Polycarp quoted, "the Judgment seat of Christ" The Alexandrian texts changed from "Christ" to "God" in 200 years later.
Comrade asked:
Why?
Because in 1633, when the Elsevir published an edition of the Greek New Testament, the preface (written in Latin) included the phrase: Textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus receptum which, being interpreted means, "Now the reader has the text received by all." Of course, there was no proof at the time that it had been received by anyone.
Why?
Because in 1633, when the Elsevir published an edition of the Greek New Testament, the preface (written in Latin) included the phrase: Textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus receptum which, being interpreted means, "Now the reader has the text received by all." Of course, there was no proof at the time that it had been received by anyone.
Trotter
<img src =/6412.jpg>
Only as far as the Alexandrien texts did as well. ALL manuscripts originally started from the same source...the authors. From there, they were sent around and about. The manuscripts that we have today are the ones that have been found at various locations, preserved through the efforts of copyists over the centuries.
The "Received Text" did not exist until Erasmus compiled it from a few (less than twelve) manuscripts, along with the Latin Vulgate. So trying to say that it began with the apostles (other than the fact that ALL manuscripts originally did) is totally ridiculous.
Until Erasmus put it together from various sources, the TR did not exist. Pure and simple.
In Christ,
Trotter
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And here is the above paragraph
rewritten to NOT contain errors:
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Ed, this is rude and uncalled for. You could clearly understand what he wrote. We are human and make many spelling errors, yourself included. You are slandering this person by your nitpicking and it is NOT NICE! Stop it please.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
And here is the above paragraph
rewritten to NOT contain errors:
--------------------------------------------------
Ed, this is rude and uncalled for. You could clearly understand what he wrote. We are human and make many spelling errors, yourself included. You are slandering this person by your nitpicking and it is NOT NICE! Stop it please.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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Proof 1. The KJV1611 edition side notes
show that variant source documents were
used. "Heb" shows a variant in the Old
Testament Sources. "Gr" shows a
variant in the New Testament Sources.
--------------------------------------------------
The churches took these out, as they were not needed and were only the opinions of men. They were the translators opinions of what they thought the Hebrew/Greek could also mean. Apparently the churches didn't think they were of any value, as they thankfully got rid of them, and as God saw to it they did. They are irrelevant and meaningless.
Why do you not harp on the mv's for putting God's word in footnotes, instead of in the scriptures? This is what you should be pointing out, but you are too numbed down to the truth, to even be able to tell this has been done, and that it is not right.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Proof 1. The KJV1611 edition side notes
show that variant source documents were
used. "Heb" shows a variant in the Old
Testament Sources. "Gr" shows a
variant in the New Testament Sources.
--------------------------------------------------
The churches took these out, as they were not needed and were only the opinions of men. They were the translators opinions of what they thought the Hebrew/Greek could also mean. Apparently the churches didn't think they were of any value, as they thankfully got rid of them, and as God saw to it they did. They are irrelevant and meaningless.
Why do you not harp on the mv's for putting God's word in footnotes, instead of in the scriptures? This is what you should be pointing out, but you are too numbed down to the truth, to even be able to tell this has been done, and that it is not right.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, you say someone is "rude and uncalled for"? Something about a pot and kettle comes to my mind. Michelle, you want to moderate others and tell them they are rude or that they should/should not post something? Find your own site. Don't dare to try it here.
Askjo, when you say 40% of the NKJV is NOT the TR is 100% a vile and evil lie. It is not a mistake, not a misstatement, not an interpretation. It is simply untrue.
I would ban you right now for such open lying. I am ashamed to have to treat you this way, brother, but such a falsehood MUST be refuted lest someone believe it.
I would ban you right now for such open lying. I am ashamed to have to treat you this way, brother, but such a falsehood MUST be refuted lest someone believe it.
All - this thread STARTED with a "flame" and should have been shut immediately.
The Textus Receptus is a name given to a blend of various Greek documents 20+ years AFTER the AV1611 was published.
Most people recognize this and refer to the underlying Greek of the AV as the "MT" (Majority Text) rather than the TR to not seem so foolish.
The Textus Receptus is a name given to a blend of various Greek documents 20+ years AFTER the AV1611 was published.
Most people recognize this and refer to the underlying Greek of the AV as the "MT" (Majority Text) rather than the TR to not seem so foolish.
--------------------------------------------------
Michelle, you say someone is "rude and uncalled for"? Something about a pot and kettle comes to my mind. Michelle, you want to moderate others and tell them they are rude or that they should/should not post something? Find your own site. Don't dare to try it here.
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When I see another being rude to another, I will tell them and stick up for that other person whether you like it or not. Anytime someone is unkind to another, I will always point it out.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, you say someone is "rude and uncalled for"? Something about a pot and kettle comes to my mind. Michelle, you want to moderate others and tell them they are rude or that they should/should not post something? Find your own site. Don't dare to try it here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I see another being rude to another, I will tell them and stick up for that other person whether you like it or not. Anytime someone is unkind to another, I will always point it out.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
And you will disappear, Michelle, if you usurp the role of a Moderator. Remember, you are our guest here, not the boss.
Dr. Bob
A man that is an heretike, after the first and second admonition reiect;
Knowing that he that is such, is subuerted, and sinneth, being condemned of himselfe.
Dr. Bob
A man that is an heretike, after the first and second admonition reiect;
Knowing that he that is such, is subuerted, and sinneth, being condemned of himselfe.
Russell55: "Can you give an example or two of where Polycarp quotes from sources that disagree with the Alexandrian text family and follow the texts that the KJV is based on?"
For everyone's information: here is the whole shebang -- *all* of Polycarp's quotations or allusions to the NT (from <http://www.ntcanon.org/Polycarp.shtml>).
Few if any of these are from places where there is any real variation in the text, i.e. nearly all of them come from the 90% "common text" where there is no text-critical dispute. Askjo's example in point of the judgment seat of Christ is one of the few exceptions.
Polycarp and the Gospel according to Matthew
Format is:
Polycarp ref -- quote/allusion --- Matthew ref
Matthew
2:3 "Judge not, that you be not judged; forgive and you will be forgiven; be merciful, that you may be shown mercy; the measure you give will be the measure you get".... 7:1,2
7:2 ..."to lead us not into temptation"... 6:13
7:2 ..."The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak". 26:14
12:3 ..."for those who persecute and hate you" 5:44
Mark
5:2 ...."a servant of all".... 9:35
Luke
2:3 ...."blessed are the poor and those persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of God". 6:20
Acts
1:2 ... "whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of Hades". 2:24
2:1 ...."judge of the living and the dead",... 10:42
Romans
6:2 ... "everyone shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ and each of us shall give an account of himself". 14:10,12
I Corinthians
4:3 ... "the secrets of the heart". 14:25
5:3 ... "neither fornicators nor the effeminate nor homosexuals will inherit the Kingdom of God", ... 6:9,10
10:1 ... "steadfast and immovable" ... 15:58
11:3 ... "do we not know that the saints will judge the world", as Paul teaches? 6:2
II Corinthians
2:2 For "he who raised him from the dead will raise us also", ... 4:14
4:1 ... let us arm ourselves "with the weapons of righteousness", ... 6:7
6:1 ...but "always taking thought for what is honorable in the sight of God and men" ... 8:21
10:1 ...in "the gentleness of the Lord preferring one another", and despising no one. 10:1
Galatians
3:3 ... -- "which is a mother of us all", ... 4:26
5:1 ... "God is not mocked", ... 6:7
12:3 ...and in "his Father who raised him from the dead". 1:1
Ephesians
1:3 ... "you are saved by grace, not because of works", ... 2:5,8,9
3:1 ... "the word of truth". 1:13
12:1 ... as it is said in these Scriptures "be angry but sin not" and "let not the sun go down on your anger". 4:26
12:3 "Pray for all the saints". 6:18
Philippians
2:1 ... "to whom he subjected all things, whether in heaven or on earth", ... 3:21
9:1 ... "did not run in vain",.. 2:16
12:3 ..."the enemies of the cross",.. 3:18
I Thessalonians
11:2 "Shun evil of every kind". 5:22
II Thessalonians
11:4 ..."do not consider such persons as enemies",... 3:15
I Timothy
4:1 But "the love of money is the beginning of all evils". 6:10
4:1 ... "we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out", ... 6:7
12:3 "Pray also for emperors and magistrates and rulers", ... 2:1
II Timothy
5:2 ..."we shall also reign with him"... 2:12
9:2 For they "loved not this present world", ... 4:10
11:4 "May the Lord grant them true repentance". 2:25
Hebrews
6:3 So then let us "serve him with fear and all reverence", ... 12:28
12:2 May God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and "the eternal High Priest" himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness ... 6:20, 7:3
I Peter
1:3 In him, "though you have not seen him, you believe with inexpressible and exalted joy", -- ... 1:8,12
2:1 "Therefore, girding your loins, serve God in fear" ... 1:13
2:1 ... "believing on him who raised our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead and gave him glory" ... 1:21
2:2 ... "not returning evil for evil or abuse for abuse", ... 3:9
5:3 ... "every passion of the flesh wages war against the Spirit", ... 2:11
7:2 ... "watching unto prayer" ... 4:7
8:1 ..."who bore our sins in his own body on the tree, who committed no sin, neither was guile found on his lips".... 2:24
10:1 ..."loving the brotherhood".... 2:17
10:1 ..."cherishing one another".... 3:8
I John
7:1 For "whosoever does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is antichrist", and whosoever does not confess the testimony of the cross "is of the devil"; ... 4:2,3 3:8
III John
10:1 ... "fellow companions in the truth"; ... 1:8
That's all folks....
For everyone's information: here is the whole shebang -- *all* of Polycarp's quotations or allusions to the NT (from <http://www.ntcanon.org/Polycarp.shtml>).
Few if any of these are from places where there is any real variation in the text, i.e. nearly all of them come from the 90% "common text" where there is no text-critical dispute. Askjo's example in point of the judgment seat of Christ is one of the few exceptions.
Polycarp and the Gospel according to Matthew
Format is:
Polycarp ref -- quote/allusion --- Matthew ref
Matthew
2:3 "Judge not, that you be not judged; forgive and you will be forgiven; be merciful, that you may be shown mercy; the measure you give will be the measure you get".... 7:1,2
7:2 ..."to lead us not into temptation"... 6:13
7:2 ..."The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak". 26:14
12:3 ..."for those who persecute and hate you" 5:44
Mark
5:2 ...."a servant of all".... 9:35
Luke
2:3 ...."blessed are the poor and those persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of God". 6:20
Acts
1:2 ... "whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of Hades". 2:24
2:1 ...."judge of the living and the dead",... 10:42
Romans
6:2 ... "everyone shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ and each of us shall give an account of himself". 14:10,12
I Corinthians
4:3 ... "the secrets of the heart". 14:25
5:3 ... "neither fornicators nor the effeminate nor homosexuals will inherit the Kingdom of God", ... 6:9,10
10:1 ... "steadfast and immovable" ... 15:58
11:3 ... "do we not know that the saints will judge the world", as Paul teaches? 6:2
II Corinthians
2:2 For "he who raised him from the dead will raise us also", ... 4:14
4:1 ... let us arm ourselves "with the weapons of righteousness", ... 6:7
6:1 ...but "always taking thought for what is honorable in the sight of God and men" ... 8:21
10:1 ...in "the gentleness of the Lord preferring one another", and despising no one. 10:1
Galatians
3:3 ... -- "which is a mother of us all", ... 4:26
5:1 ... "God is not mocked", ... 6:7
12:3 ...and in "his Father who raised him from the dead". 1:1
Ephesians
1:3 ... "you are saved by grace, not because of works", ... 2:5,8,9
3:1 ... "the word of truth". 1:13
12:1 ... as it is said in these Scriptures "be angry but sin not" and "let not the sun go down on your anger". 4:26
12:3 "Pray for all the saints". 6:18
Philippians
2:1 ... "to whom he subjected all things, whether in heaven or on earth", ... 3:21
9:1 ... "did not run in vain",.. 2:16
12:3 ..."the enemies of the cross",.. 3:18
I Thessalonians
11:2 "Shun evil of every kind". 5:22
II Thessalonians
11:4 ..."do not consider such persons as enemies",... 3:15
I Timothy
4:1 But "the love of money is the beginning of all evils". 6:10
4:1 ... "we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out", ... 6:7
12:3 "Pray also for emperors and magistrates and rulers", ... 2:1
II Timothy
5:2 ..."we shall also reign with him"... 2:12
9:2 For they "loved not this present world", ... 4:10
11:4 "May the Lord grant them true repentance". 2:25
Hebrews
6:3 So then let us "serve him with fear and all reverence", ... 12:28
12:2 May God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and "the eternal High Priest" himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness ... 6:20, 7:3
I Peter
1:3 In him, "though you have not seen him, you believe with inexpressible and exalted joy", -- ... 1:8,12
2:1 "Therefore, girding your loins, serve God in fear" ... 1:13
2:1 ... "believing on him who raised our Lord Jesus Christ from the dead and gave him glory" ... 1:21
2:2 ... "not returning evil for evil or abuse for abuse", ... 3:9
5:3 ... "every passion of the flesh wages war against the Spirit", ... 2:11
7:2 ... "watching unto prayer" ... 4:7
8:1 ..."who bore our sins in his own body on the tree, who committed no sin, neither was guile found on his lips".... 2:24
10:1 ..."loving the brotherhood".... 2:17
10:1 ..."cherishing one another".... 3:8
I John
7:1 For "whosoever does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is antichrist", and whosoever does not confess the testimony of the cross "is of the devil"; ... 4:2,3 3:8
III John
10:1 ... "fellow companions in the truth"; ... 1:8
That's all folks....
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And you will disappear, Michelle, if you usurp the role of a Moderator. Remember, you are our guest here, not the boss.
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And you Dr. Bob, nor anyone else but God is my boss. God would not desire me to stand by and not point out the unkind treatment of another. You are not the boss of when I can tell someone when they are being rude and unkind. As I said, I will ALWAYS point it out and stick up for the one that is being attacked unwarrantedly, and this also includes myself. I will defend others when it is warranted, REGARDLESS of what your own personal opinion of it is.
Now you not only have power to snip scriptures from my post when you so deem it irrelevant, but now you are also telling me that I am not allowed to stand up for another? Baloney. I hope you enjoy your amazing god-like powers on these boards at the expense of many good christians being attacked wrongly and very unkind attitudes and treatment of them, to sit there and tell me that I have no right to say such and will be banned if I do.
Michelle
And you will disappear, Michelle, if you usurp the role of a Moderator. Remember, you are our guest here, not the boss.
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And you Dr. Bob, nor anyone else but God is my boss. God would not desire me to stand by and not point out the unkind treatment of another. You are not the boss of when I can tell someone when they are being rude and unkind. As I said, I will ALWAYS point it out and stick up for the one that is being attacked unwarrantedly, and this also includes myself. I will defend others when it is warranted, REGARDLESS of what your own personal opinion of it is.
Now you not only have power to snip scriptures from my post when you so deem it irrelevant, but now you are also telling me that I am not allowed to stand up for another? Baloney. I hope you enjoy your amazing god-like powers on these boards at the expense of many good christians being attacked wrongly and very unkind attitudes and treatment of them, to sit there and tell me that I have no right to say such and will be banned if I do.
Michelle
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
You must have really made her mad Dr Bob.
She left off her love signature
.
She left off her love signature
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You are not allowed to ATTACK others Michelle in the syrupy pseudo-piety that is your trademark. We have all grown weary of your ATTACK and will watch carefully. Just pausing to give a shot across the bow.
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Dr. Bob, go back and read what Ed did to the poster, and then tell me I was wrong. What he did was unecessary and unkind and attacking that poster. I did not attack Ed, I told Ed the truth of what he did, and publicly as he did it publicly to that person. If you don't like it...touph. I don't like many things done to me or said of me either, which has gotten way out of hand. But you just let it continue, because you do not like me. That is fine. But I will never stop defending others who have been treated unkindly, or in a rude manner. Ed should apologize for what he did. Yet your focus is upon my defense of that poster. Unbelievable. What perilous days we are surely living in, even in christianity.
michelle
You are not allowed to ATTACK others Michelle in the syrupy pseudo-piety that is your trademark. We have all grown weary of your ATTACK and will watch carefully. Just pausing to give a shot across the bow.
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Dr. Bob, go back and read what Ed did to the poster, and then tell me I was wrong. What he did was unecessary and unkind and attacking that poster. I did not attack Ed, I told Ed the truth of what he did, and publicly as he did it publicly to that person. If you don't like it...touph. I don't like many things done to me or said of me either, which has gotten way out of hand. But you just let it continue, because you do not like me. That is fine. But I will never stop defending others who have been treated unkindly, or in a rude manner. Ed should apologize for what he did. Yet your focus is upon my defense of that poster. Unbelievable. What perilous days we are surely living in, even in christianity.
michelle