why is it ?

I don't think anyone is saying the altar call is a sacrament (or ordinance). Lots of the typical Baptist service is neither a sacrament nor an ordinance, and God can save someone at an altar call if he wants to, despite your objections.

 

Perhaps nothing, but for 1900 years Christians made public confessions of faith without altar calls. That doesn't make them wrong, but it does make them unnecessary. Yet, how many modern Christians will pitch a fit if an altar call is not given in every service? I've been fussed at personally for exactly that.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that God cannot save someone at an altar call. The point is, thay are not a Biblical necessity, and too often they are little more than psychological manipulation. It is ironic (and sad) that many who do this also decry the evils of psychology.

 

No one said they were a Biblical necessity, and I don't think anyone's disagreeing that some are manipulative. So why are we talking about it?

 

Because most modern Churches are non-calvinistic, because many of them are built on manipulative psychological techniques, the altar call being one of those techniques. That's the hypothesis anyway, and I believe that it has some merit. Of course the primary reason is that God decreed it to be thus, but psychological pap is one of the means by which He has brought it to pass.

 

Yes, altar calls can be manipulative and psychological. I've experienced it first hand. I've also experienced manipulative psychological techniques from Calvinistic congregations.

I wonder why God does this. And I wonder why God makes me wonder why.

 

I've often wondered how puppets can wonder.

 

Oh, that's easy. The puppeteer simply made them wonder, and even determined what they were to wonder about. But what's strange is that the puppeteer feeds them the illusion that they aren't puppets.

 

Yeah, but He told some of us puppets the truth.

 

Just some? So he lied to the others? Nay. He told all the puppets the truth (for God cannot lie), but for reasons known only to him made some of the puppets misunderstand. Which is fine. It's not like the puppets can do anything anyways with the truth or lack thereof, unless the puppeteer makes them - he usually just tricks them into thinking they can do something about it. Mischevious puppeteer! How he likes to make them dance!

 

No, no, He tricks no one. Those given real brains understand and believe. Those left with wooden brains - well, what do you expect them to do?

 

All have the same basic brains, given to them by God, and God doesn't give bad gifts. But what do I expect them to do??? Whatever the puppeteer makes them do - that's how he's tricky! They ALL think they're "doing something" (understanding, believing, etc.) but they're not! The puppeteer is pulling all the strings. Don't you get it yet? No, how could you, unless he made you?

Maybe he's tricking you too - you could never know unless he let you know, but that would ruin his fun!

 

In all my years as a believer (Feb 1982), I have been to many Churches that had the so-called "altar call", which I am sure you know what this means. The preacher would give a Gospel message, and at the end would ask if anyone who had the Lord speak to them through the message, and was interested in giving their lives to the Lord Jesus, to come forward. Just because they came forward does not make them "born again", and I doubt if any preacher every thinks it does. Those who go forward (like my brother-in-law did in 1982), would be told that they would have to confess their sins, and accept Jesus as their personal Saviour and Lord, etc, etc. I see no reason why this "method" is wrong, or why the Lord would not use it, as indeed He does do.

There is no point in knocking something we don't agree with, or even fully understand. And, worse still to insult great men of God, like Charles Finney, just because we may disagree with some of the things he did. The Church is serious problems today, without the added ones where we shoot each other.

[ April 30, 2005, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

It just seems to me that if the Altar Call is so All-Fired Important, we would have been instructed to have 'em in scripture. But nary a mention-- not even a hint.

Along comes the Romanish Armininian who doesn't believe that God is able to save nor is His Word effective without man's cooperation, So he comes up with a little ritual to add. It catches on-- in fact it can make a weak preacher look pretty darn good, when he learns a few gimmicks to get the folk to respond. Now the Romanish Armininians have gotten their little Romanish ritual to be an accepted (and expected) practice. Let a church forsake it for biblical worship and the accusations will start-- "They are just (modern/liberal/non-evangelistic/some other such slander)."

 

Show me one verse where the Lord had people "walk an aisle." Show me one verse where He tells us too.

He commands us to believe. That's it. Anything that man can come up with to add to what God requires is merely corruption of the pure Word of God.

 

Show me one verse where the Lord had people "walk an aisle." Show me one verse where He tells us too.

He commands us to believe. That's it. Anything that man can come up with to add to what God requires is merely corruption of the pure Word of God. </font>[/QUOTE]But, can you show from Scripture where it would be wrong to do so? Can you show why God would be against such a practice? Forget about preconceived ideas, lets deal with facts. If you can show from Scripture that it is wrong to tell someone to publically make a profession for Jesus Christ, then I will agree with you.

 

It IS NOT wrong to publicaly profess Christ, in fact scripture commands us to do so. We should profess Christ to anyone who will listen.

In the context of the church, God himself has ordained the means by which we are to publically identify with Christ. These means are Baptism and the Lord's Supper. We are given no authority to add to these.

I can't help but wonder if it would be acceptable for me to march down an aisle in church to the altar leading a goat and carrying a large knife and a bundle of firewood. Would it be proper for me to offer my sacrifice on the altar of a church today? This may seem a bit silly to ask, but how could it be proper to do something that God NEVER ordained (the altar call) if it isn't proper to do something that at one time He DID ordain (the sacrifice of an animal)?

If we can justify this, we have a hard time condemning any of the papal practices; or any other arbitrary ritual-- for that matter.

 

quote:
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Originally posted by icthus:
I see no reason why this "method" is wrong, or why the Lord would not use it, as indeed He does do.


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&lt;&lt;Show me one verse where the Lord had people "walk an aisle." Show me one verse where He tells us too.

He commands us to believe. That's it. Anything that man can come up with to add to what God requires is merely corruption of the pure Word of God.&gt;&gt;

Where does the Bible mention little crackers and grape juice? pews? choir? projector screens? Wednesday night prayer service? carpeting and 4 painted walls? parking lots?

Your argument doesn't make sense, as these things were not "added" to what God requires, but are products of God's requirement to worship and preach the gospel to every nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Are we to just preach and baptize everyone then?

 

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I can't help but wonder if it would be acceptable for me to march down an aisle in church to the altar leading a goat and carrying a large knife and a bundle of firewood. Would it be proper for me to offer my sacrifice on the altar of a church today? This may seem a bit silly to ask, but how could it be proper to do something that God NEVER ordained (the altar call) if it isn't proper to do something that at one time He DID ordain (the sacrifice of an animal)?

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No, this would not be acceptable because this would go against the social law that we are under today (cruelty to animals, aggravated menacing, public disturbance, etc.). The act of sacrificing animals was required under the ceremonial laws, which Christ freed us from.