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Why is the devil on any leash at all?

TomMann said:
Secondly, you are absolutely correct..... And I hope you never find me resorting to exegeting and especially not hermeneuting.......[/quote

**Personal insult removed**
 
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blackbird

Active Member
Alex Quackenbush said:
People appeal judgments all the time. People appeal God's judgments all the time. Satan, a volitional creature, is no different. However, in the post above a LINK is provided for a comprehensive study.

I'm not interested in any LINK to some "yeh-who" who can't get it right but about a quarter of the time and even then---the reader can't quiet be sure about three quarters of that quarter!!!

I would suggest---stop posting your "links" and start posting your mind----I mean, listen-----you want to get it right, don't you---we want to read what YOU think

Now show us from Scripture----where the devil "appeals" any sort of sentence God has handed down to him!!! Show us any one of his appeals
 

saturneptune

New Member
Alex Quackenbush said:
I challenge you to a DEBATE on propitiation.
I could debate lots of people with "advanced degrees" on this board, but Dr. Bob and Blackbird are not in that group. Their understanding of Scripture is way above mine, so I learn from their posts, not debate them.

There are others on this board that claim advanced degrees that don't know the difference between Elisha and Elijah.

Alex, you need to go back to making AFLAC commericals for the President.
 
blackbird said:
I'm not interested in any LINK to some "yeh-who" who can't get it right but about a quarter of the time and even then---the reader can't quiet be sure about three quarters of that quarter!!!

I would suggest---stop posting your "links" and start posting your mind----I mean, listen-----you want to get it right, don't you---we want to read what YOU think

Now show us from Scripture----where the devil "appeals" any sort of sentence God has handed down to him!!! Show us any one of his appeals
Let's see, you don't mind anyone else posting links and of course look the other way and don't complain about it...but when I do I get this. :laugh: :laugh:
I feel like Rush Limbaugh will a bunch of liberals who live and love one standard for them and their own and another for those they oppose.
 
TomMann said:
What's to debate, the meaning of the word, or whether or not it occurred, or who it was intended for?
You may not be aware of the debate regarding 1 John 2:1-2. Possibly one of your Calvinist friends can catch you up on the issue regarding the propitiation of Christ, whether it was for all humans or only the elect.
 
Rippon said:
Rippon here : Q , knock it off . Your supercilious attitude is very lame . Amy is a level-headed person , well-liked here and you don't even recognize that . Things could go so much better for you on the BB if you'd just try to take it down a couple of notches in several departments .
TomMann said:
Let me put it this way...... If there is a doctrine that requires advanced doctrinal studies and thought to comprehend..... It ain't biblical!!!!!

I gave a look at "The Doctrine of the Angelic Conflict", and would be hard pressed to give an honest critique without violating board rules for decent language!
Dr. Bob said:
Hey,Tom, start with propitiation. Alex doesn't have a clue, so it MUST be an advanced doctrine. :thumbs:
reformedbeliever said:
uh oh............. now you've had it. He is going to use his rather large vocabulary on you.
Rippon said:
Yeah , doncha' love those sesquipedalian utterances of his replete with misspelled words , horrid grammar and a nasty dose of superiority ?
Amy.G said:
Yeah, that.

I did me some exit-geetin and her-meticals!
A summation of the stunning minds at work as they try to stay on topic and attempt a Biblical refutation. :laugh:
 

blackbird

Active Member
Alex Quackenbush said:
Let's see, you don't mind anyone else posting links and of course look the other way and don't complain about it...but when I do I get this. :laugh: :laugh:
I feel like Rush Limbaugh will a bunch of liberals who live and love one standard for them and their own and another for those they oppose.

Just give me the scripture, Q!!! Never mind how liberal I am---thats beside the point----just the scripture will do for now!!!!! Show me satan's appeal---isolate the scripture and then expound and exegete!!!!!
 
blackbird said:
Just give me the scripture, Q!!! Never mind how liberal I am---thats beside the point----just the scripture will do for now!!!!! Show me satan's appeal---isolate the scripture and then expound and exegete!!!!!
Please, spare me. You know it wasn't about whether you are a liberal or not. It was about your protest regarding my use of a LINK for a 40 something page treatment of a DOCTRINE that you consistently FAIL to protest LINK usage by those FAVORABLE to your sentiments. But you know what? I have come to expect that so...on to more important things.

As for the request, it is based on doctrinal conclusions stemming from understood and deduced realities present in varying Scriptures. What is available to you is an extensive treatment of the doctrine at the link provided for your detailed study. But no, you reject this. Instead, while having little or no frame of reference you demand access to Algebraic Theology when you are Fractional Theology is troublesome.

But hey, for an isolated treatment here is a link to the Appeal of Satan and I have provided some excellent and very limited but direct material addressing your demand:

The Appeal Trial of Satan


The Appeal Trial of Satan – The Reason for Man’s Creation2
Scripture does not provide us a specific reason for God’s creation of the first creature nor of the universe.3 However, we know that all things were created for God’s glory (Psa 19:1; Rom 1:20).

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows his handiwork.
(Psa 19:1)

For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead,
so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not
glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and
their foolish hearts were darkened. (Romans 1:20-21)

In addition, Scripture does provide us with a reference to the creation and fall of the most magnificent creature to ever come from the hand of God, i.e. Lucifer. In Ezekiel 28:11-19, the magnificent nature of this creature is mentioned during a section of Scripture in which Ezekiel excoriates the king of Tyre for his arrogance and compares the king of Tyre to Satan as Ezekiel predicts the fall of the king of Tyre.4 In Isaiah 14:12-17, the basis for Lucifer’s fall is described in a section of Scripture in which Isaiah denounces Babylon – the center of power and false religion during Isaiah’s ministry to Israel. Ezekiel 28:12b – Thus says the Lord God; you were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (28:13) You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: the sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. [Nine of the twelve stones worn by the high priest of Israel]
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. (28:14) You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. [Probably a reference to the “wall of fire” that surrounded the throne room of God and points to Satan’s unfettered access to God’s presence as the guardian cherub]. (28:15) You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.

Notes
with His creation, God is glorified. This reasoning has a logic that is supported by God’s express purpose in creation, i.e. His own glorification, and it reconciles with God’s purpose in creating man as a result of Lucifer’s response to God’s sentence at His fall (i.e. “how can a God of love sentence me to an eternal separation from Him?”).

4 Ezekiel prophesied for a period of approximately 22 years (ca. 593 to 571 B.C.) surrounding the fall of Jerusalem in 586 B.C. and subsequent Babylonian captivity. Ezekiel lived as an exile in Babylon. Isaiah lived and ministered around the period of the Assyrian captivity – about 150 years prior to Ezekiel (740 to 681 B.C.). The immediate context for our Ezekiel passage is a series of oracles of judgment
directed to all of Judah’s surrounding Gentile nations and people-groups. Ezekiel spends the greatest amount of space denouncing Tyre (especially the king of Tyre) for arrogance. The immediate context of our Isaiah passage is a series of oracles of judgment that pronounced the fall of Babylon, the crown jewel of the Assyrian empire. Isaiah compares the fall of Babylon to the fall of Satan in eternity past. “Ezekiel in his prophetic vision stood on the threshold of angelic history and saw in prospect on to the end of Satan’s career, whereas Isaiah in his prophetic vision stood at the end of this history and saw in retrospect what he records.” See Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Texas: Dallas Seminary Press, 1947),
Volume II, 46.


(28:16) By the abundance of your trading you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones.

(28:17) Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, that they might gaze at you.

(28:18) You defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your trading; therefore I brought fire from your midst; it devoured you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you.

(28:19) All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; you have become a horror, and shall be no more forever. Isaiah 14:12 – How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!

(14:13) For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north;

(14:14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’

(14:15) Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.


From these passages we have an understanding of the nature of Satan’s fall at a point in eternity past as well as the judgment that was pronounced upon him at the time of his fall. Obviously, the execution of his sentence is future since he has not yet been cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:10).5 The delay between the pronouncement of the sentence and the execution of the sentence is the span of time equal to human history. This fact establishes the relationship between the angelic conflict and human history.
Evidently, Satan appealed his sentence. Satan’s position as the “anointed cherub that covereth” (Ezek. 28:14) demanded that God conduct a trial with all of the heavenly host in attendance. God was the judge and the prosecution; Satan was the defense. What was Satan’s appeal argument? What case could he possibly construct to legitimately question the verdict of a perfectly just, omnipotent, omniscient, and righteous God? Why would God even consider entertaining an appeal from a creature of His?
Notes
Several passages either relate to or establish the fact that Satan’s sin (fall) in eternity past did not
immediately result in him no longer having access to heaven, thus they establish the fact that there has
been a delay between the pronouncement of the sentence and the execution of the sentence.
By the abundance of your trade you were internally filled with violence, and you sinned; therefore I
have cast you as profane from the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire. (Ezek. 28:16) [Note: This is a prediction of judgment and does
not teach that Satan was cast out of heaven at the time of his sin.]
How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut
down to the earth, you who have weakened the nations! (Isaiah 14:12) [Note: This is a
description of the final judgment of Satan at the end of his career.]
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and
Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6) [Note: This passage discloses the fact that Satan still
has access to heaven even after his “fall” in eternity past.]
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat. (Luke 22:31) [Note:
This passage also substantiates Satan’s access to heaven.]
 

blackbird

Active Member
I read nothing in your post that even points to satan's appeal---where is the appeal??? Just because he has access to Heaven---does not mean "appeal"
 
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Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Blackbird - I read the whole article and it is worthless tripe. You won't find scriptural support for this nonsense. :(
 
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