Why is there a Resurgence of Reformed Theology?

[The Archangel]

"We believe in the five great points commonly known as Calvinistic; but we do not regard those five points as being barbed shafts which we are to thrust between the ribs of our fellow-Christians." —Charles Spurgeon

I heartily agree.

The Archangel

 

[Rippon]

On The Other Hand

"We believe in the five great points commonly known as Calvinistic; but we do not regard those five points as being barbed shafts which we are to thrust between the ribs of our fellow-Christians." —Charles Spurgeon

"I am a five-point Calvinist and all of the points are sharp!" Ian Paisley

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

An answer to the question: Are you saying any doctrine but reformed theology is "darkeness"? Posed by Webdog (here)

The reason for answering this question without Webdog engaging Robert Snow is this: Some friends, preacher4truth, to be specific, is being caused to stumble by my refusal to answer Webdog (see here). So, since he misunderstood my post and my refusal to answer and since I do not desire to be a stumbling block and since I do not desire to cause people to sin, I will answer Webdog's question.

Before I answer the question, I will answer this post by Webdog:



Of course, I am not "the" authority or even an authority on the BB. But, neither are you. And, as such, you have no right to demand an answer to any one of your questions and you have no expectation of such an answer.

The reason for my statement answering this question by stating "Why is there a resurgence in Reformed Theology? Because light is breaking into darkness. Soli Deo Gloria." (see here) is this: Robert Snow stated the exact antithesis to this (here) when he said:



Now, consider what Paul calls contrary to sound doctrine:

[9] understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
[10] the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (1 Timothy 1:9-10 ESV; emphasis mine)
​

So, for Robert Snow to say that Calvinsts do not hold sound doctrine is to call them "Lawless." "Murderers." "Sexually Immoral." "Liars." It is to call all Calvinists "non-believers."

And yet, Webdog and the other Arminian-types say nothing!

So, it is fine for an Arminian to question the salvation of every Calvinist on this board and it seemingly gains hearty approval. Yet, when a Calvinist says something more cryptic that appears to question salvation, it is a crime. This is a perfect example of a double standard

It simply will not do for Arminians to question a Calvinist's salvation and it simply will not do for a Calvinist to question an Arminian's salvation, though many Arminians do question the salvation of Calvinists all the time.

If one is going to rail against Calvinists seeming to question the salvation of Arminians, one must also rail against Arminians questioning the salvation of Calvinists.

As To The Statement Itself:

I in no way, shape, or form question the salvation of Arminians. Do I think their understanding is clear? No. Do I think there is a deficiency in their theology? Yes. Does that inclarity or deficiency mean that they are not Christians? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I have many, many Arminian friends who, frankly, are better Christians than I am. I hope their understanding becomes fuller and they bask in the Sovereignty of God. I hope the light of deeper theology breaks into the "darkness" of what I understand to be a superficial theology--even if these beloved Arminian brothers and sisters do not become Calvinists. But, are they Christians? Absolutely, and I am proud to call them my brothers and sisters in Christ--something many Arminian-types here seem not to be willing to do.

A word to the wise (both Calvinists and Arminians) should be sufficient.

Here endeth the lesson.

The Archangel

Well said brother....a splendid & balanced response

 

[Jarthur001]

"We believe in the five great points commonly known as Calvinistic; but we do not regard those five points as being barbed shafts which we are to thrust between the ribs of our fellow-Christians." —Charles Spurgeon

me wonders if the poster will remember this post the next time he tries to mislead others by pulling Spurgeon's words out of context, hope other would think he was not a Calvinist.

Yet...Spurgeon says it here and many other places.

We believe in the five great points commonly known as Calvinistic;

My guess is that he will not.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

me wonders if the poster will remember this post the next time he tries to mislead others by pulling Spurgeon's words out of context, hope other would think he was not a Calvinist.

Yet...Spurgeon says it here and many other places.

We believe in the five great points commonly known as Calvinistic;

My guess is that he will not.

Yea, but lets be Christians & not stoop to ....well you know what I am saying. Lets show all decorum & love dear brother. sometimes thats my stumbling block. They will know we are Christians by our love.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yea, but lets be Christians & not stoop to ....well you know what I am saying. Lets show all decorum & love dear brother. sometimes thats my stumbling block. They will know we are Christians by our love.

Well said.

:thumbs:

 

[menageriekeeper]

Almost seven years on this board and you as well as others are STILL coming up with this junk.

This wasn't an insult to Calvinism, but to the people who accept it because its "new and different" and doesn't require them to really think beyond learning the 5 points.

Some of ya'll need to take a step back from the BB and look at the real world around you and quit finding things to take offense at. You think other theological views don't have similar problems? Really, when it was IFB's preaching the sins of dancing and tobacco, they had similar problems. People like having a list of rules to follow. Structure. Eventually, they get tired of it, because it is human nature to look for something "better" and they begin to revolt.

Right now, very few here on the BB will say that dancing and tobacco are "sins". A few years from now, you Calvinists(or more likely your children and grandchildren) are going to wonder what you were thinking and the pendulum will swing back the other direction. Only they will likely view dancing and tobacco as no-nos again (or some other insignificant sin). This is human history. We are destined to repeat ourselves over and over. Nothing is new under the sun.

 

[preacher4truth]

menageriekeeper;1621219]This wasn't an insult to Calvinism, but to the people who accept it because its "new and different"

So it was only to insult those who see it as new, but not to Calvinists?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your correct....there is nothing new under the sun....however we would like to hope & believe that there are constants as well. Allot of folks fought & died so that Reformed Theology could come into the world & challange the Roman Catholics with a well Reformed Worship & Glorification of our Good Lord. I should not want to see that effort diminished & trampled on & disrespected. I believe that every Reformed individual here would also want to show respect for your theology. We all have to remember that we are Christians & that we are all commanded by our Lord to love one another. Im done with this thread.

God bless all in here.

 

[John Toppass]

I think that the reformed doctrine surges from time to time because of the laziness of some Christians to read the whole Word of God. They read the parts that seem easiest to agree with when it seems to be the fad or is popular.

Others, see it as a cash cow for their books and tapes and if the truth be known none of it is original in thought.

Calvinism is not original, for centuries before man was ignoring and massaging scripture so that it seems to say what they want it to say.

The same can be said about Armenian-ism.

Fortunately, I do not think that either is so heretical that it condemns the followers to Hell.

God is still totally sovereign. God owes nothing to man but He gave man His word and God will abide by His word. (If God does not abide by His Word, we are wasting soooo much time) God's sovereignty is total but by His own Word He gave man free will to choose because He made man in His own image. God abides within His Word and expects all who choose Him to do so as well. (knowing that this is impossible to do but not impossible to seek). God is willing that all men choose to repent, but God gave men free will and some will resist the Holy Spirit. Those who choose not to resist, then become the elect who's adoption, justification and glorification is predestined by God.

I say this with all love towards my brethren (sisters included)

 

[Robert Snow]

Dr. Chuck Missler says that the truth is the river which flows between the opposite shores of Calvinism and Arminianism.

 

[quantumfaith]

Well I just cannot go without putting my two cents worth.

1. The proverbial "pendulum swing" principle is in effect.

Like many things in our world, "theological" preferences swing from side to side. Much like elections, democrat---republican etc. As to why this is, well that is a question for philosophers to tackle. But then again, philosophy is the "handmaiden of theology".

2. Most "respected" theologies are "logical", however, "reformed theology" leans much more heavily to the deductive side of logic (Moving from "complex to the simple). Whereas, other theologies may be more "inductive" in nature. (Moving from the specific to the general.

As a rule, most find deductive logic more appealing because it is more simple.

3. My guess also is the statistics related to the positions of academicians at seminaries also has an impact.

BTW, could not bring myself to vote for any of the options in the survey list.

 

[quantumfaith]

Dr. Chuck Missler says that the truth is the river which flows between the opposite shores of Calvinism and Arminianism.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Allan]

It isn't so much a 'resurgence' as it is a spot light being placed on it once more. It has always been around and has always had about the same foot hold it does now... though I will say it is gaining more notoriety, especially due to the web, and gaining more adherents.

This is not to distract nor detract from the fact others are believing it, nor that it is growing.. please don't misunderstand me. However it is more like a cycle of views that come and go like the tide. Believe that the reformed view came into prominence when theology began to grow more and more corrupt and one sided, just as the Arminian view came into prominence when the Reformed view became more and more corrupt and one sided. Both are extremes and neither is fully correct. I praise God that he has allowed me to share scripture with many who were like myself, moving toward a reformed view, but through researching the scriptures came to see where it was bibically incorrect (though acknowledging those place it was correct). Due to this fact, they, like myself, came to reject it as a system of belief.

What is most interesting is that very question could have also been asked back in the days of the reformers about the Arminian position.. though it I HIGHLY doubt any of the reformed members here would state it was light shining into the darkness, nor that God Himself desired His people to know and believe contrary to some of the views of the reformed position. (though I do know a few on here who will state this.. most will not).

Anyway, just my two cents.

 

[Jeffriesw]

Why is this?

Looking back on my life, when I was saved, the stance of IFB, again, the shallow theology, never touching on God's Sovereignty but instead preaching topical sermons based on popular legalistic topics to garner amens took it's toll on my theological base, and showed me how utterly shallow it truly was.

I believe this to be a big reason many do not attend these churches as much, and why many are leaving them, and as to why not too many are attracted to this type of church. It's more of a hotbed religion out here anyways, than being truly evangelistic. God and Christ are simply not lifted up. It is way too simplistic of a theology. These things turned me away from IFB and dumbed-down theology.

Rightly so.

There was always something missing, and this had to do with their concept of the Godhead. It was typically addressed with pat answers. Sovereignty was never touched upon, unless it was said "God is Sovereign!!!" followed by 12 "amens!!!!" and then never delved into.

Looking back on my salvation, I see where God drew me to Him, how He alone, reached into my life, and lifted up His Son, and gave me new life. I always had a serious problem with the sinners prayer thing. Preachers do this "would you like to go to heaven?" pitch, stumble through a prayer, and wonder (and whine) why said persons have no interest in God, nor the things of God.

After beginning to study reformation theology, more and more light upon the Sovereignty and greatness of God has flooded in. I am at the very beginning, and I don't have a lot of answers, but God leads me through these things, and His glory has really been exalted through this in my life.

Anyhow, why is there a resurgence of Reformed Theology/calvinism? today

- Blessings

Amen Brother :godisgood:

Only those who desire to be intellectuals become Calvinist. However Salvation and the Bible is simple enough, a child can understand it. In fact if we cannot become as little children. We will never enter the Kingdom of God.
Myself I would rather have the truth of the gospel as simple as it is than to be like the Pharisee’s convinced they have all the answers.
One thing for sure there is little room for humility in such a intellectual doctrine
MB

I would have to respectfully disagree with your assessment that only those wishing to be intellectuals become calvinist, Most calvinist I know do not fit that description at all, nor do they come across as a pharisee. Maybe we run in different circles though...

I would also beg to differ on the comment about "leaving little room for humility", I believe the opposite is correct, true saving faith brought about by a Sovereign God leaves no room for any pride or boasting on my part, I can not boast, revel or take pride in what I did not do.


Be Blessed and Be a Blessing,
Bill J.

 

[preacher4truth]

See what I mean. Now you're claiming that all those extra biblical books are inspired by God and just as good as His word. The type of intelectua I'm speaking of believes they are never wrong. Paul was a Pharisee and a member of the same Sanhedrin who declared crucify Him after the trial of Jesus. All of the Sanheadrin were highly educated men. Yet even Paul made it simple that is exactly the opposite of Calvinism. The Jailer where Paul was being held once came and asked Paul this. Paul never said first you must be regenerated so you can understand the gospel. He wouldn't have told him to do something he was incapable of because it takes an intelectual to understand it. No! He simply told him to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The same thing that preacher told the guy who came forward and then the preacher prayed with him. Oh that's right you're not comfortable with the sinners prayer. I wonder did you pray it when you got saved. If not why are you uncomfortable with it? How is it that offends you for someone to ask to be saved. The Bible says to ask and we''ll receiveObviously you are mixed up on the true points of Scripture. You believe reading other materials than the Bible is growing in grace. This would be true if those materials were inspired of God. They aren't, they are inspired by men looking to make a few dollars no matter how well intentioned they are. Everything we need to know is in God's word no one has any special revelation. I agree we are to study God's word but that's not to include the words of men. All of the tulip are the ideas of men. They aren't even found in scripture. Placing your faith in men has no benefit.MB

WOW. Let me try to explain this to you again.

See what I mean. Now you're claiming that all those extra biblical books are inspired by God and just as good as His word.

That never happened, and what you have done here is called lying. I never stated nor implied this nor do I believe it. Why are you accusing without grounds? When you read your Bible only, have you seen in Exodus 20 the 9th commandment about bearing false witness? This is what you have done here.

The type of intelectua I'm speaking of believes they are never wrong.

Who believes they are never wrong? Do you? I don't.

The Jailer where Paul was being held once came and asked Paul this. Paul never said first you must be regenerated so you can understand the gospel. He wouldn't have told him to do something he was incapable of because it takes an intelectual to understand it. No! He simply told him to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well of course. Who goes around witnessing saying these things? Your statement is rather absurd and proves nothing. Do you think Paul understood all things at this point? Answer that to whether he understood all things about God's Sovereignty, His working in hearts for Salvation &c. Look at Paul on the Road to Damascus, friend. Irresistible grace was at work. I'm certain he, the jailer, and many others can attest to the workings of God in their lives in the way parts of the 5 points describes it happening. I saw these things in my life when He saved me and looking back upon it.

The same thing that preacher told the guy who came forward and then the preacher prayed with him. Oh that's right you're not comfortable with the sinners prayer. I wonder did you pray it when you got saved. If not why are you uncomfortable with it?

You're correct. I am not comfortable with the sinners prayer, in this context: A guy asks another "Do you want to go to heaven?" The person says "Yes" and then they pray this sinners prayer. Many people think getting a person to pray that prayer does the trick. Not so. And many times it isolates the person further away from God, church, and Christianity. They never come to church, never bear fruit, but they are "saved" because they said a prayer. Show me where that is in Scripture. Where is one place where they were led in a prayer and then saved. My problem with it is this, that it is not some magic formula, and getting someone to say it and pray it does not save them. When I got saved I told the fellow I wanted to be saved, I told him I believe in Jesus Christ, that I want Him to forgive me and save me and change my life. So he prayed with me, and never lead me through some chick-tract like prayer.

How is it that offends you for someone to ask to be saved.

Another assumptive charge laid against me. You seem to be very angry. Why do you slander another person, namely me, with false charges? Take a look at Proverbs 10:18 friend, and put it to an end. Stop bearing false witness.

I agree we are to study God's word but that's not to include the words of men.

There are many many passages of Scriptures that we would not know the meaning of without some extrabiblical cultural clues. For instance Romans 12:20 says "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head." What does heaping coals of fire on his head mean? Vengeance? Why did Paul say this, and what did it mean then? Answer only with your Bible and with no study Bible notes, nothing but pure Scripture. You know what, you can't do it. And there are many other passages like this in Scripture that I can use as examples.


Friend, stop the accusing, bearing false witness, assuming, and slandering, and act like a brother in Christ. Nothing you have accused me of has any ground of truth to it whatsoever. Maybe you're against growing in knowledge in some sense, but at least do the growing in grace part, and let it be seen on here.

- Blessings

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anyway, just my two cents.

Yes & thats about all its worth in value too.

 

[Jarthur001]

It isn't so much a 'resurgence' as it is a spot light being placed on it once more. It has always been around and has always had about the same foot hold it does now... though I will say it is gaining more notoriety, especially due to the web, and gaining more adherents.

I agree with most of this. Because of the web, many are calling this the 2nd reformation. The 1st reformation had the printing press.

There is talk of a major resurgence in this nation, but the numbers do not show this from the churches. What has happened is, LEADERS, and or writers are now writing on it more than they have before. Calvinism is being talked about in just about every church. 50 years ago, most would not touch the word.

Time will tell if all the talk and all the writing will translate into more people believing in Calvinism. I don't have the report with me, but more than one poll shows that church members have remained about the same as 50 years ago. If I recall, it was like 5% rise or something like that, which is hardly anything to get excited about.

But, because it is the leaders of the churches that have fallen in love with it, in time it should change the members views. Again, we shall see.

I however do feel like it maybe a 2nd reformation. The numbers are not shown in churches in this nation ...NOT YET anyway....but world wide is another story. World wide Calvinism has doubled or even more. The stats I saw are 2 years old.

Christian Reformed World Missions says...

“There is an explosion of church planting going on in India” I think they say something like 500 churches in the last 10 years.

Check out this link....

http://backtogod.net/

ARBCA gives like reports...

3rd Mill...another Reformed mission group says there is nothing like it in the history of the church.

So, there does seem to be growth, but not as much in this nation. But, that should follow soon. We shall see.

 

[Luke2427]

It isn't so much a 'resurgence' as it is a spot light being placed on it once more. It has always been around and has always had about the same foot hold it does now... though I will say it is gaining more notoriety, especially due to the web, and gaining more adherents.

This is not true. Read, "Young, Restless and Reformed" by Collin Hansen There are some stats in that book that clearly show there is a resurgence of Reformed thinking.

This is not to distract nor detract from the fact others are believing it, nor that it is growing.. please don't misunderstand me. However it is more like a cycle of views that come and go like the tide. Believe that the reformed view came into prominence when theology began to grow more and more corrupt and one sided, just as the Arminian view came into prominence when the Reformed view became more and more corrupt and one sided. Both are extremes and neither is fully correct. I praise God that he has allowed me to share scripture with many who were like myself, moving toward a reformed view, but through researching the scriptures came to see where it was bibically incorrect (though acknowledging those place it was correct). Due to this fact, they, like myself, came to reject it as a system of belief.

This is terribly unfortunate. You've fallen into and led others into error.

 

[J.D.]

Preacher4truth: Your experience is similar to many of us involved in the "Reformed Resurgence". I was the most fire-breathing IFB you ever would meet for years. But as it was with you, the "shallow" theology eventually left me hollow. The gaps in Bible Study, the reliance on "mystery" and "paradox" for explaining passages on predestination, and so on.

But I would caution you to consider the value of your fundamentalist experience: you were taught that the Bible is the source of light and truth, and that you must study it vigorously to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Thank God for your IFB experience, and pray that God will open more inroads among our fundamental brethren for the truth of God's sovereignty.