Why is there evil in the world?

[Amy.G]

Could God have received praise forever for mercy when he was never able to bestow it upon any creature had evil not come into being??

What?????

There was a "time" before Satan's fall, before the fall of man, when evil did not exist and God was praised by the angels.

There will be a time in the future when Jesus will put all His enemies under His feet and once again evil will be non existent, for all eternity.

God needs NOTHING to cause Him to be praised. He is praised because HE IS.

 

[Amy.G]

That's not accurate but if it was would you praise him? does he not have the right?

That's a dumb question. It's like asking if God was a giant purple people eater would He still be God.

 

[Luke2427]

What?????

There was a "time" before Satan's fall, before the fall of man, when evil did not exist and God was praised by the angels.

There will be a time in the future when Jesus will put all His enemies under His feet and once again evil will be non existent, for all eternity.

God needs NOTHING to cause Him to be praised. He is praised because HE IS.

For MERCY, Amy- you're not paying attention.

Tell us how He gets praises for mercy.

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes, it is. The Creator has a moral obligation to that which he creates. Especially, since man is a living moral agent.

He is himself accountable to himself and to his nature he cannot act contrarily to his perfections.


Two different topics. Eternal suffering is a consiquence of man's decision to rebel against God. God's Glory is self evident.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

And what about his nature says he is obligated to try to save fallen creatures? What about Lucifer and the third part of the angels of heaven? Is the Almighty under obligation to them to try to save them????

Because the Holy Word teaches us from beginning to end, that God IS Love and this is an essential part of His nature.


Nope. For the praise and glory of Calvary is why he ordained evil. To DISPLAY his love and grace and mercy is why he built the universe, isn't it? That Jesus Christ might receive the praise of a multitude which no man can number forever and ever for his going to Calvary.

Did you just say that that makes God a masochist??? MY, my!

No, TS, says that the implication of your position makes God out to be "like a masochist. You seem to think that those of us who are "hung up" on the issue of "free will" of created moral agents somehow detract from the "glory of God", "may it never be". Quite the contrary, when free moral agents choose to love, honor, revere and worship the creator, His is wonderfully and magnificently glorified. He created because He loves, not because HE NEEDS glory, that position, makes God out to be rather "childish and insecure", definitely not the God of the Bible that I read.





Could God have made the universe and Adam and the serpent and Lucifer in such a way that evil never come to pass? Did he not know that if he made everything he made a certain way that evil would come into being? Could he not have tweaked it so that evil would not come to pass?

He could have made the universe and mankind anyway which he desired, but he chose to create free moral agents that could choose Him or not

God so obviously planned it. Not only does good ol common sense and sound logic demand it- but the Bible teaches it doesn't it?

No Sir, that is what YOU say it teaches, millions, perhaps billions disagree with you on this issue, does that make them necessarily correct, NO.



God worketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will.

For of Him and through Him adn to him are all things...



I hope you don't wind up like the Israelites and have to go around forty years before you get it.

That is uncalled for from a person who claims the name and presence of Christ in their life.

 

[Luke2427]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Just for the record, quantum accidentally posted that quote as if it is mine. I do not wish to be associated with that quote. I think it is terrible to posit that the Almighty is accountable to sinners. Absolutely horrendous.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Just for the record, quantum accidentally posted that quote as if it is mine. I do not wish to be associated with that quote. I think it is terrible to posit that the Almighty is accountable to sinners. Absolutely horrendous.

You are miss representing what I said. God has responsibility for his creation especially since they are free moral agents. God is accountable to himself and cannot act contrarily to his nature. If Man sins its on him and he reaps what he sows. It just so happens that man has sin and is reaping the consiquenses of it. I did not say God is accountable to sinners. He is not accountable to sinners. That is an entirely different thing. Sinners are accountable to God acting contrarily to his plan for them they then are sinners. God provides salvation to all men who would avail themselves of it. God therefore acts justly. This would not be the case if double predestination were in effect. Your view suggest that they acted according to how God designed them thus how could they have sinned?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

TS...You seriously feel that all men are Moral free agents?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

TS...You seriously feel that all men are Moral free agents?

I believe man has an ability to choose. I believe that man has the inclination, leaning, conquisipence, tendency, etc to sin and that his judgement is marred by sin. But I do not go to the extent of Calvin. I don't see his view reflected in scripture and I definately don't see it reflected in reality. If you have a propensity for something you can still choose against it. After all didn't God warn Cain not to give into his desire? If Cain could do nothing other than murder his brother God was wasting his time and Cain's time by warning him not to do it. However, God gave Cain insite into Cain's own nature and how sin affected it. Sin is lying in wait and will pounce if given the opportunity. Cain gave it the opportunity but I don't believe it was a foregone conclusion.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I believe man has an ability to choose. I believe that man has the inclination, leaning, conquisipence, tendency, etc to sin and that his judgement is marred by sin. But I do not go to the extent of Calvin. I don't see his view reflected in scripture and I definately don't see it reflected in reality. If you have a propensity for something you can still choose against it. After all didn't God warn Cain not to give into his desire? If Cain could do nothing other than murder his brother God was wasting his time and Cain's time by warning him not to do it. However, God gave Cain insite into Cain's own nature and how sin affected it. Sin is lying in wait and will pounce if given the opportunity. Cain gave it the opportunity but I don't believe it was a foregone conclusion.

So you do not believe that Human kind is born innately bad....is that where we differ? thats our disagreement point, that you believe that man is born good & has to be on his guard against sin so as not to be tripped up? I just want to make sure I have that correct before you & I go into a long discussion & then open it up for the fanatics on both sides start throwing around their nonsense which I find highly comical.

In fact, & I know you can appreciate this.....I find these guys who get real serious, funnier than heck & they have been over the last few months a rich source of amusement for me. :tongue3:.... Keep it up fellas cause I really love a great belly laugh.

 

[quantumfaith]

So you do not believe that Human kind is born innately bad....is that where we differ? thats our disagreement point, that you believe that man is born good & has to be on his guard against sin so as not to be tripped up? I just want to make sure I have that correct before you & I go into a long discussion & then open it up for the fanatics on both sides start throwing around their nonsense which I find highly comical.

In fact, & I know you can appreciate this.....I find these guys who get real serious, funnier than heck & they have been over the last few months a rich source of amusement for me. :tongue3:.... Keep it up fellas cause I really love a great belly laugh.

EWF, is it the Marine in you that has you up so early. 940 here in Dublin

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF, is it the Marine in you that has you up so early. 940 here in Dublin

ROFL..... the Marine in me would be in a pub sampling the suds of life in Dublin & I hope your thoroughly enjoying yourself along with Mrs Dave.
How was your flight?

 

[quantumfaith]

ROFL..... the Marine in me would be in a pub sampling the suds of life in Dublin & I hope your thoroughly enjoying yourself along with Mrs Dave.
How was your flight?

It was great. Uneventful, just how I prefer flights. Went to pub last night for some dinner, Guiness's and Irish Music and dance. Who says, white men cant dance. These Irish are fantastic dancers. A couple of more Guiness and even I may have been able to dance.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Im actually meeting with Chris Christy this AM.....My fat little dumpling of a governor, to see if we can get New Jersey rolling again. Lots of work to do & I dont think he wants me opposing him. I know his wife, we used to take the train into NYC together.

 

[quantumfaith]

Im actually meeting with Chris Christy this AM.....My fat little dumpling of a governor, to see if we can get New Jersey rolling again. Lots of work to do & I dont think he wants me opposing him. I know his wife, we used to take the train into NYC together.

Good luck with the meeting. Don't know much about him, but he is a republican, so he cant be ALL bad.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It was great. Uneventful, just how I prefer flights. Went to pub last night for some dinner, Guiness's and Irish Music and dance. Who says, white men cant dance. These Irish are fantastic dancers. A couple of more Guiness and even I may have been able to dance.:smilewinkgrin:

Splendid....glad to hear your both having a good time. Id say buy yourself one of those warm Irish wool sweaters (their great for warmth & durability) but you live in a warm climate already so you dont need it. I like craftsmanship & those sweaters are a work of art to me.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But ya shouldnt be talking to me...go have a jolly time of it!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So you do not believe that Human kind is born innately bad....is that where we differ? thats our disagreement point, that you believe that man is born good & has to be on his guard against sin so as not to be tripped up? I just want to make sure I have that correct before you & I go into a long discussion & then open it up for the fanatics on both sides start throwing around their nonsense which I find highly comical.

In fact, & I know you can appreciate this.....I find these guys who get real serious, funnier than heck & they have been over the last few months a rich source of amusement for me. :tongue3:.... Keep it up fellas cause I really love a great belly laugh.

No. I don't believe that either. I believe that man is made in the image of God which is good. I also believe that man has a sin nature a propensity if you will to lean towards sin and not seek God. That is bad. I don't believe the bad does away with all good nor do I believe we are born free of the stain of sin. Man is concieved in sin. However, man still has the imprint of God's image on him. This sin nature must be dealt with as are the sins which we've chosen to do. Jesus Christ deals with both.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No. I don't believe that either. I believe that man is made in the image of God which is good. I also believe that man has a sin nature a propensity if you will to lean towards sin and not seek God. That is bad. I don't believe the bad does away with all good nor do I believe we are born free of the stain of sin. Man is concieved in sin. However, man still has the imprint of God's image on him. This sin nature must be dealt with as are the sins which we've chosen to do. Jesus Christ deals with both.

Listen, youve been through this & heard all the arguments before. Like you said you made your choice so why belabor the issue. Just dont disrespect my convictions & we can coexist. Really Im not here to become a zealot....rather to learn, to have conversation & to laugh at the sanctimonious self-righteous legalistic nut jobs which up to now haven't disappointed me.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Listen, youve been through this & heard all the arguments before. Like you said you made your choice so why belabor the issue. Just dont disrespect my convictions & we can coexist. Really Im not here to become a zealot....rather to learn, to have conversation & to laugh at the sanctimonious self-righteous legalistic nut jobs which up to now haven't disappointed me.

How can I disrespect an individual who has chosen Catherine Zeta-Jones as an avatar? It has made my sojourn at BB a bit nicer. And now that I think about it I'll have that glass of chilled Mad Elf.