Why isn't the NKJV seen as being another update on KJV?

[Logos1560]

Is it possible that King James I did not want believers to read how strongly God's Word condemns tyranny and tyrants? Did King James think that some might regard some of his actions as being those of a tyrant?

Alexander McClure referred to King James as "the tyrant" (KJV Translators, p. 50).

Why did the KJV translators remove the words "tyrant,” “tyrants,” and “tyranny” from the text of the English Bible?

According to the first rule given the translators, what “truth of the original” demanded this change? Is it possible that the KJV translators agreed with the view of civil government held by King James?

Did the KJV translators avoid using the word "tyrant" to keep from offending King James or were they perhaps instructed to remove it? David Teems asserted that “James had seen to it that the word tyrant was absent from his Bible” (Majestie, p. 232). Melvyn Bragg claimed that the word ‘tyrant” was not “to be used” in the new Bible of King James (Book of Books, p. 42). Bragg referred to “the Bible of James from which the word ‘tyrant’ and the king-baiting, status-quo-testing comments in the Geneva Bible had been omitted” (p. 71). Knoppers suggested that “King James may well have envisioned the new translation as enhancing monarchial power” (Jeffrey, King James Bible, p. 38).

What was wrong with the use of the word “tryant” in the English Bible?

William Pierce asserted: “Tyrannical rulers have ever found support from prelates” (Historical Introduction, p. 36). Samuel Rutherford maintained that “tyranny, being a work of Satan, is not from God” (Lex, Rex, p. 34).

 

[Alive in Christ]

This is only "marginally" related to the issue in the OP but part of my own personal problem with the NKJV is the fact that the editors (Thomas Nelson I guess) chose to include most,if not all of those nefarious little "marginal footnotes" that I seem to find in all the other MV's that I don't like. The reason I find them so offensive is that they almost always tend to support the contentions of the "Critical Text" and,in effect, call into question the AUTHORITY of significant word(s) and portions of the Word of God. The KJV NEVER does that. As far as I can tell....it is a complete text and it OMITS or QUESTIONS nothing. The text and its overall authority (KJV) are INTACT throughout from cover to cover...in my humble opinion.

One other personal observation I have is that, again in my opinion, by updating the so-called archaic words and removing the "Thees and Thous, etc." the text loses some of its majesty and readability. For that matter,when you "update" things into some of the perverted "modern language" you give people just one more reason to be lazy in their study of the Word of God. Resigning the DICTIONARY to the dusty shelves of history is NOT a good thing for students of the Bible to ever do. That's just my two cents worth...everybody else is welcome to their own.

The NKJV has been my favorite version for all of my 30 years of life with Christ.

I find it to be very acurate,,,and I believe that taking out all of the archaic "Thees and Thous" was a good thing.

To each thier own

 

[Oldtimer]

Thank you Logos 1560 for your replies. As time permits, I'll go back to them to study the insights they contain. Just a quick glance, at this point, that merits a second look.

 

[Oldtimer]

The NKJV has been my favorite version for all of my 30 years of life with Christ.

I find it to be very acurate,,,and I believe that taking out all of the archaic "Thees and Thous" was a good thing.

To each thier own

Agree, to each their own.

However, I beg to disagree about "thees and thous". They convey meaning that can't be as adequately rendered with "you". That's one reason why Yall is in Southern speak. It's an attempt to distinguish the difference between an individual and a group. In some circumstances the difference is important.

From what I understand, by the time the KJB was compiled, usage of Thee and Thou was being phased out of common everyday language. The translators chose to use them because they did make distinctions, when such was needed within the scriptures.

Back in ancient days when I was a kid, grammer classes included study of these pronouns. :saint:

 

[robycop3]

The KJVO who criticizes the footnotes in the NKJV shouldn't overlook the barge load of marginal notes in the AV1611.

 

[robycop3]

Agree, to each their own.

However, I beg to disagree about "thees and thous". They convey meaning that can't be as adequately rendered with "you". That's one reason why Yall is in Southern speak. It's an attempt to distinguish the difference between an individual and a group. In some circumstances the difference is important.

From what I understand, by the time the KJB was compiled, usage of Thee and Thou was being phased out of common everyday language. The translators chose to use them because they did make distinctions, when such was needed within the scriptures.

Back in ancient days when I was a kid, grammer classes included study of these pronouns. :saint:

Funny...in the 400 years since the KJV was made, English-users haven't had any probs with "you".

 

[SovereignMercy]

Agree, to each their own.

However, I beg to disagree about "thees and thous". They convey meaning that can't be as adequately rendered with "you". That's one reason why Yall is in Southern speak. It's an attempt to distinguish the difference between an individual and a group. In some circumstances the difference is important.

From what I understand, by the time the KJB was compiled, usage of Thee and Thou was being phased out of common everyday language. The translators chose to use them because they did make distinctions, when such was needed within the scriptures.

Back in ancient days when I was a kid, grammer classes included study of these pronouns. :saint:

What about spelling? Grammar...

 

[Alive in Christ]

Old timer...

However, I beg to disagree about "thees and thous". They convey meaning that can't be as adequately rendered with "you".

How so?

What is the substantial differance between these 2 statements...

1) "Thou hast given me great blessings".

2) "You have given me great blessings". .

 

[Oldtimer]

Old timer...

How so?

What is the substantial differance between these 2 statements...

1) "Thou hast given me great blessings".

2) "You have given me great blessings". .

Who are you addressing? Your pastor or the congregation of your church?

1) is 2nd person singular - thus you are addressing your pastor.

2) is 2nd person plural - thus you are addresssing your congregation. Or, are you talking with your pastor?

a) "You have given me great blessings". Spoken to my pastor.
b) "Ya'll have given me great blessings". Testimony before our congregation.

It can make a "substantial" difference in the context of some scriptures. Is verse abc directed to an individual or to an assemby of people?

 

[Oldtimer]

What about spelling? Grammar...

I ain't said I was no expert in nary one of em.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Oldtimer...

Who are you addressing? Your pastor or the congregation of your church?

1) is 2nd person singular - thus you are addressing your pastor.

2) is 2nd person plural - thus you are addresssing your congregation. Or, are you talking with your pastor?

a) "You have given me great blessings". Spoken to my pastor.
b) "Ya'll have given me great blessings". Testimony before our congregation.

It can make a "substantial" difference in the context of some scriptures. Is verse abc directed to an individual or to an assemby of people?

Oh, C'mon now. You dont really think that is gonna fly, do you?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Just a note of warning

I ain't said I was no expert in nary one of em.

:smilewinkgrin:

My dear Brldtimer....just a note of warning to you that (in case you haven't noticed)....these all inclusive MV folks that don't have the same regard we do about the KJV have very little sense of humor...that is, unless they are making fun of us. Some of these guys seem to have something like the same rabid, junkyard dog ATTITUDE (not beliefs)as Mr. KJVO himself, Dr.Peter S. Ruckman. Oh well....by the way...thanks for your kind comments earlier and for the record.....I appreciate your sense of "gravity". Have a great Lord's day!

Bro.Gregraying:

 

[TC]

Agree, to each their own.

However, I beg to disagree about "thees and thous". They convey meaning that can't be as adequately rendered with "you". That's one reason why Yall is in Southern speak. It's an attempt to distinguish the difference between an individual and a group. In some circumstances the difference is important.

I have been the only one in a room and a Southerner walks in and says "How R y'all doin?" So, y'all can be singular as well or I'm just so large that they see me as more than one person.

 

[Oldtimer]

Oldtimer...

Oh, C'mon now. You dont really think that is gonna fly, do you?

No, I didn't see wings anywhere. LOL

I've seen people "debate" for pages, in these forums, about the meaning of a single word. How it's used. What it implies. "Gifts vs Manifestation" is an example.

Yet, when one translation team chose to use a specific set of pronouns for clarification, it's often used as an objection, used as a weapon, against those who prefer more, not less clarification in this aspect of scripture intent.

Pure speculation on my part, as I don't know the answer. Has the loss of the distinction between singular and plural "you" led, in part, to "collective salvation"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLgHlYjJvXk&feature=related

 

[Oldtimer]

The KJVO who criticizes the footnotes in the NKJV shouldn't overlook the barge load of marginal notes in the AV1611.

:wavey:

How about talking about the differences in usage of those "barge load" of marginal notes / footnotes in the KJB and the NKJV. There is a difference in how these notes were used.

 

[Oldtimer]

I have been the only one in a room and a Southerner walks in and says "How R y'all doin?" So, y'all can be singular as well or I'm just so large that they see me as more than one person.

Can't speak for any other region. Around here Yall is usually used to address more than one person.

Yall come back soon, as several people get into their car to leave.

Come back, when you can, when one person gets into his pickup truck.

Plus, if the term is used incorrectly, because of the context (hearing it first hand and seeing how many are involved) there isn't a misunderstanding.

Yall come back -
Come back when you can -

One person vs a father and a 3 year old kid. I don't expect the child to return by himself, regardless of whether singular or plural is used, since I can easily observe the context.

 

[Oldtimer]

My dear Brldtimer....just a note of warning to you that (in case you haven't noticed)....these all inclusive MV folks that don't have the same regard we do about the KJV have very little sense of humor...that is, unless they are making fun of us. Some of these guys seem to have something like the same rabid, junkyard dog ATTITUDE (not beliefs)as Mr. KJVO himself, Dr.Peter S. Ruckman. Oh well....by the way...thanks for your kind comments earlier and for the record.....I appreciate your sense of "gravity". Have a great Lord's day!

Bro.Gregraying:

Bro Greg, yes, I noticed. They do enjoy poking fun with those of us who put MV based on Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece (NA2?) and the UBS Greek New Testament (UBS?) secondary in order of Bible preference.

They can poke all the fun they want as long as it's directed at me, personally. However, I take a dim view of anyone poking fun at God's word in their zeal to be right and to try to tell me how dumb and ignorant I must be to prefer the KJB.

It's the same folks, generally, who group every KJB defender with the extremists of this position. Yet, they would be agast if I grouped him or her with a particular cult's use of the NA and/or UBS as the basis for their Bible version.

Oh, well............... :godisgood:

It was a great Lord's Day. Thank you.

Everyday is a great day, when we walk with our Saviour, despite stumbling blocks cast in our path. May those cast in your path be few. raying:

 

[Ed B]

I have been the only one in a room and a Southerner walks in and says "How R y'all doin?" So, y'all can be singular as well or I'm just so large that they see me as more than one person.

It was an efficient way of asking about you and your family even if the family was not present. Perhaps the more proper way for the Southerner to pose the question would be like this:

S: "How you doin?"
You: "Fine, thanks for asking"

S: "Good. How's mom and them?"

......

 

[Logos1560]

How about talking about the differences in usage of those "barge load" of marginal notes / footnotes in the KJB and the NKJV. There is a difference in how these notes were used.

Are you ignoring the fact that the 1611 KJV has some of the same type marginal textual notes as those found in the NKJV?

The issue is not the number of such notes if all textual notes are considered wrong. If the textual notes in the 1611 KJV are excused or rationalized, it would evidently be through use of divers measures or weights [double standards].

 

[Logos1560]

Some KJV-only advocates will praise the Geneva Bible, but they often misrepresent and attack the NKJV.

In a good number of places where the NKJV has translational differences with the KJV, it is in agreement with the 1560 Geneva Bible. Here are some examples from the book of Acts.

Acts 1:3 presented (Geneva, NKJV) shewed (KJV)
Acts 1:3 that he had suffered (Geneva) his passion (KJV) His suffering (NKJV)
Acts 1:4 he commanded (Geneva) commanded (KJV) He commanded (NKJV)
Acts 1:4 but to wait (Geneva, NKJV) but wait (KJV)
Acts 1:19 their own language (Geneva, NKJV) their proper tongue (KJV)
Acts 1:20 charge (Geneva) bishopric (KJV) office (NKJV)
Acts 1:22 be made (Geneva) be ordained (KJV) become (NKJV)
Acts 1:28 on Matthias (Geneva, NKJV) upon Matthias (KJV)
Acts 2:8 language (Geneva, NKJV) tongue (KJV)
Acts 2:13 They are full (Geneva, NKJV) These men are full (KJV)
Acts 2:15 since it is (Geneva, NKJV) seeing it is (KJV)
Acts 2:34 sit at (Geneva, NKJV) sit thou on (KJV)
Acts 3:12 So when Peter (Geneva, NKJV) And when Peter (KJV)
Acts 3:12 or godliness (Geneva, NKJV) or holiness (KJV)
Acts 3:17 I know (Geneva, NKJV) I wot (KJV)
Acts 3:18 thus fulfilled (Geneva, NKJV) so fulfilled (KJV)
Acts 3:23 shall be (Geneva, NKJV) shall come to pass (KJV)
Acts 3:25 to Abraham (Geneva, NKJV) unto Abraham (KJV)
Acts 3:26 your iniquities (Geneva, NKJV) his iniquities (KJV)
Acts 4:18 So they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Acts 4:28 to do (Geneva, NKJV) For to do (KJV)
Acts 5:16 were all healed (Geneva, NKJV) were healed every one (KJV)
Acts 5:21 all the elders (Geneva, NKJV) all the senate (KJV)
Acts 5:35 Men of Israel (Geneva, NKJV) Ye men of Israel (KJV)
Acts 5:41 So they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Acts 6:11 against Moses and God (Geneva, NKJV) against Moses and against God (KJV)
Acts 7:6 But God (Geneva, NKJV) And God (KJV)
Acts 7:11 famine (Geneva, NKJV) dearth (KJV)
Acts 7:17 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 7:20 acceptable unto God (Geneva) exceeding fair (KJV) well pleasing to God (NKJV)
Acts 7:25 that God (Geneva, NKJV) how that God (KJV)
Acts 7:38 congregation (Geneva, NKJV) church (KJV)
Acts 7:40 know not (Geneva) wot not (KJV) do not know (NKJV)
Acts 8:1 to his death (Geneva, NKJV) unto his death (KJV)
Acts 8:7 with a loud (Geneva, NKJV) with loud (KJV)
Acts 8:23 For I see (Geneva, NKJV) For I perceive (KJV)
Acts 8:27 to worship (Geneva, NKJV) for to worship (KJV)
Acts 9:8 from the ground (Geneva, NKJV) from the earth (KJV)
Acts 9:9 ate nor drank (Geneva, NKJV) did eat nor drink (KJV)
Acts 9:16 how many things (Geneva, NKJV) how great things (KJV)
Acts 9:22 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) very Christ (KJV)
Acts 9:38 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 10:2 household (Geneva, NKJV) house (KJV)
Acts 10:9 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 11:1 Now the (Geneva, NKJV) And the (KJV)
Acts 11:25 to seek (Geneva, NKJV) for to seek (KJV)
Acts 11:28 famine (Geneva, NKJV) dearth (KJV)
Acts 12:4 passover (Geneva, NKJV) Easter (KJV)
Acts 12:9 knew not (Geneva) wist not (KJV) did not know (KJV)
Acts 13:10 straight ways (Geneva, NKJV) right ways (KJV)
Acts 13:16 hearken (Geneva) give audience (KJV) listen (KJV)
Acts 13:20 about four (Geneva, NKJV) about the space of four (KJV)
Acts 13:22 will do (Geneva, NKJV) shall fulfill (KJV)
Acts 13:35 wilt not (Geneva) shalt no (KJV) will not (NKJV)
Acts 13:36 with his fathers (Geneva, NKJV) unto his fathers (KJV)
Acts 14:14 But when (Geneva, NKJV) Which when (KJV)
Acts 14:15 O men (Geneva) Sirs (KJV) Men (NKJV)
Acts 14:23 in whom (Geneva, NKJV) on whom (KJV)
Acts 14:25 to Attalia (Geneva, NKJV) into Attalia (KJV)
Acts 14:26 commended (Geneva, NKJV) recommended (KJV)
Acts 15:3 sent (Geneva, NKJV) brought (KJV)
Acts 15:7 know that (Geneva, NKJV) know how that (KJV)
Acts 15:23 and the brethren (Geneva, NKJV) and brethren (KJV)
Acts 15:25 to us (Geneva, NKJV) unto us (KJV)
Acts 15:29 from things (Geneva, NKJV) from meats (KJV)
Acts 15:40 commended (Geneva, NKJV) recommended (KJV)
Acts 16:4 to keep (Geneva, NKJV) for to keep (KJV)
Acts 16:10 to preach (Geneva, NKJV) for to preach (KJV)
Acts 16:14 things which Paul spake (Geneva) things which were spoken of Paul (KJV)
things spoken by Paul (NKJV)
Acts 16:22 them to be beaten with rods (Geneva, NKJV) to beat them (KJV)
Acts 16:31 household (Geneva, NKJV) house (KJV)
Acts 16:34 household (Geneva, NKJV) house (KJV)
Acts 17:4 joined in company (Geneva) consorted (KJV) joined (NKJV)
Acts 17:6 But when they (Geneva, NKJV) And when they (KJV)
Acts 17:26 to dwell (Geneva, NKJV) for to dwell (KJV)
Acts 17:34 among whom (Geneva) among the which (KJV) among them (NKJV)
Acts 18:5 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Acts 18:28 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Acts 19:28 Now when they (Geneva, NKJV) And when they (KJV)
Acts 19:33 to the people (Geneva, NKJV) unto the people (KJV)
Acts 20:1 to go (Geneva, NKJV) for to go (KJV)
Acts 20:9 overcome with sleep (Geneva) sunk down with sleep (KJV) overcome by sleep (NKJV)
Acts 20:10 But Paul (Geneva, NKJV) And Paul (KJV)
Acts 20:13 Then we (Geneva, NKJV) And we (KJV)
Acts 20:28 whereof (Geneva) over the which (KJV) among which (NKJV)
Acts 21:38 the Egyptian (Geneva, NKJV) that Egyptian (KJV)
Acts 22:2 he said (Geneva, NKJV) he saith (KJV)
Acts 22:6 as I journeyed (Geneva, NKJV) as I made my journey (KJV)
Acts 22:6 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 22:8 to me (Geneva, NKJV) unto me (KJV)
Acts 22:17 Syrtes (Geneva) quicksands (KJV) Syrtis Sands (NKJV)
Acts 22:20 clothes (Geneva, NKJV) raiment (KJV)
Acts 22:21 Then he (Geneva) And he (KJV) Then He (NKJV)
Acts 22:27 to him (Geneva, NKJV) unto him (KJV)
Acts 22:30 On the next day (Geneva) On the morrow (KJV) The next day (NKJV)
Acts 23:3 to him (Geneva, NKJV) unto him (KJV)
Acts 23:9 Then there (Geneva, NKJV) And there (KJV)
Acts 23:14 oath (Geneva, NKJV) curse (KJV)
Acts 23:32 And the next day (Geneva) On the morrow (KJV) The next day (NKJV)
Acts 23:34 read it (Geneva, NKJV) read the letter (KJV)
Acts 24:1 came down (Geneva, NKJV) descended (KJV)
Acts 24:4 courtesy (Geneva, NKJV) clemency (KJV)
Acts 24:11 to worship (Geneva, NKJV) for to worship (KJV)
Acts 25:30 commanded his accusers (Geneva, NKJV) gave commandment to his accusers (KJV)
Acts 25:34 had read it (Geneva) had read the letter (KJV) had read it (NKJV)
Acts 26:28 to become (Geneva, NKJV) to be (KJV)
Acts 28:21 Then they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Acts 28:21 any evil (Geneva, NKJV) any harm (KJV)
Acts 28:24 some were persuaded (Geneva, NKJV) some believed (KJV)
Acts 28:27 should return (Geneva) should be converted (KJV) turn (NKJV)